6x45 or ?

Some may have read a few of my past threads about my 111 in .223 Rem. I have come to a point that I do not want to mess with the .223 anymore (after I use up the rest of my bullets or will trade them off). I am seriously considering taking the sporter barrel off and putting on a heavy sporter in 6x45. POU is varmint/predator and light recoiling 200 yard deer rifle. If I can get loads as accurate as I have for the .223, I should be able to get reliable CNS hits out to 150 yards and possibly beyond. I was contemplating bullets in the 85gr class for deer and working up a 65-70gr load for the other stuff. Most of my plinking will still be done with rimfires and a .357 single shot I have. I am really liking most everything about this particular cartridge for what I am looking for.

I have also considered the 300 BLK, or getting a PPC bolt head and going 6.5 Grendel, or 7.62x39. All of these have their virtues, but the 6.5 will have less options for budget bullets. The 7.62x39 will have the option of inexpensive ammo, and the BLK is able to use cheap reformed brass. Of these calibers, which would be your second choice and why? I understand that the 30's would probably shorten my range for use on deer too.

6x45 1/8 will work for up to 100 gr. Bullet you will have not to make a lot or rifle changes as bolt face magazine. Brass is really easy to come by they shoot real good. I use one on the AR platform. Years back the service rifle competition saw lots for people covering their black guns to 6x45 but were fining it hard to keep up with the 7.62 mm aka .308 Win across the crourse at Camp Perry Ohio beyond 300 yards. But with today’s new rifling and powder and bullets we are now able to make theses shots happen.
You will be very happy with the 6x45 I want one for my Striker pistol.


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I built one last year off a model 11. 22" black hole barrel 9 twist. Shoots fantastic with 70 gr blitz and 75 gr hp (both sierra's) I want to shoot the sierra 85gkhp but it does not feed well at all.

I just put one together two weeks ago. Shot it for the first time on Sunday and am impressed.
Using 95 gr. Sierra SMK's loaded at 0.010 off the lands and a mid point load of IMR 4895 give or take half a gr. it kept a .5 or a little better outside to outside at 100 yards with little to no recoil.
Built on a model 12 single shot sitting in a McMillan Edge stock. it is a X Caliber 1:8 twist, full cylinder barrel from Apache, built for short range BR.
Going to load some with a load in the middle of what I was using to get rid of the vertical and a few thousandths deeper for the slight horizontal.
I will post the results.

I feel a 6mm-25 caliber on the .223 case is about perfect for an all around cartridge. the 6mm get's the nod due to bullet selection.

I could be wrong but most 6x45's were setup for ar length loads. if you had the rifle throated to have a longer OAL I think the cartridge would really come to life.

if considering a 30 cal variant and you have no plans of running subsonic I would lean more towards the 7.62x40WT (ptg had one of these reamers on clearance recently) it will out perform both the 300blk and x39 by a decent margin and picks up a decent velocity boost. it runs on the same principles as the 300 black but is just a little longer. still uses .223 brass.

I personally would go the 6x45 route in a 1:8-1:9 twist and for deer I'd try the 85 partition or sgk maybe even try the 90 partition if you get the rifle throated to set bullets out further.
and depending how big your deer are I hear people use the 87 vmax on pretty much everything since the velocity is less it's not as explosive as if fired from a .243. could be a 1 load rifle if it works out. there is also the 87 SST you could get lucky and find loads that track the same through the scope so you don't have to change zero's.

I built a 6x45 this summer and couldn't be happier. Went with the 6x45 rather than TCU or 6x45AI. About the same performance and you are getting a fairly standard cartridge and you will find reasonably priced loading dies, I got a Forster FL die. Very light recoil and very accurate. Mine is on a LA stagger feed.... so it is single shot.

Nosler makes their Partition bullet for hunting and they should work well out to 200 yards on whitetail, with a well placed shot.

Bill

froggy - "and a few thousandths deeper for the slight horizontal." could you elaborate and/or explain reasoning? thanks.

Built a 6X45 2 years ago model 10 action with a Shilen SS 1-8" match select. Used a CDI bottom metal with Accurate mags modded to OAL of 2.538". Built mostly as a Bench rifle. Very happy with results of 95gr Sierra MatchKings. 0.015" off lands with Ogive of 1.910". Following is summary of load development of 95gr SMKs.

	Powder	C.O.L.	Start	Max	Most Accurate	Group
	H335	2.260"	21.0	24.0	24.0	.427"
NoGo	H322	2.260"	20.5	23.0	22.0	.511"
GoodToGo	IMR3031	2.260"	20.5	23.5	20.5	.215"
	BL-C(2)	2.260"	25.0	27.0	25.5	.184"
Untested	H4895	2.260"	22.0	24.0C

No feeding or ejection problems with the CDI bottom metal nor mag being too short. Would consider 6x45 as a good caliber for whitetail and antelope at no more than 200 yds.

My reloading method:
New .223Brass
6mmx45 Redding Full Length Neck Bushing Sizing Die> 21st Century6MM Expander Die

Fired once.223 Brass
6mmx45 Redding Full Length Neck Bushing Sizing Die > 21st Century6MM Expander Die

ShilenFired Brass
.223 Rem Redding Type S Full Length Neck Bushing Sizing Die(.266" Bushing) >21st Century 6MM Expander Die

OR Neck SizingOnly

.223 Rem Redding Type S Neck Sizing Die(.266" Bushing) >21stCentury 6MM Expander Die

Chop house the general rule of thumb when you have vertical stringing it is usually velocity- adjust amount of powder.
When you have horizontal it is seating depth- adjust by a few thousandths in or out to bring the string together.
Explained to me by a couple old bench shooters.

6mm-223 does have a better bullet selection and BC but I wanted something a little more intriguing as I already have a 243 and built a 25x45 sharps which has a little more energy. Granted this was in an AR15.

Mad Dog Weapons Systems will have Savage barrels in stock soon in .277 wolverine which is nice. Better BC and SD than 300BO but not as much as a bullet selection.

froggy. "Explained to me by a couple old bench shooters."


thx. i understood what you were saying. the vertical is somewhat intuitive, even at 100 yards: not so much by the external ballistics but by how the rifle reacts (rebounds off) on the rest. i fiddle around a lot with break action centerfires which are light in weight, poorly balanced, have attached forearms and are touchy as c%$P when it comes to vertical stringing. might even say 'infamous'. after 40 years, those d&*n things finally taught me some better reloading techniques.

what i'm curious of is if those old benchers shared any of the rationale behind the horizontal dispersion adjustments in re seating depth. OR, did they simple say it was among the first things to try?

If you happen to have the Berger reloading manual it actually had a whole section on this subject that explains much better than I can.
They start with jumps much larger than I but when the groups start coming together they then move the seating depth in smaller increments. After shooting Savages since 1970 and now reloading for precession for about 8 years I have found most of my rifles like around 0.020 off some much more, so I always start at 0.015 and move in and out to find the sweet spot then tweak just a little more. I am always trying for the low 2's or high 1's some times I am successful sometimes not so much.

I just ran the numbers on the 6 x .223 in 8 twist with a JLK 105, which is fine for targets and deer. In a 24" barrel, it hits an accuracy node at 2550 fps, which is sufficient for deer out to 500 yards. By that I mean it still has right about 800 ft-lbs of energy, and is still going over 1800 fps. Looks good to me.

I have been busy at work, but have now been able to get caught up. The 85sgk is the bullet I was thinking of for the deer, etc. The info on the 87vmax sounds good too. I will not be doing any of it to chase velocity. I want accuracy above all else but am not expecting a benchrest rifle nor the time to dedicate that much energy to the minutia of reloading. I will be happy with sub MOA groups at 100, but my goal is .75 or better. I have some shooting to do.

BSEFK, my rifle is also a long action stagger feed. Did you find it simpler to make it single shot, or was it necessity?

RBP, I noticed that often the most accurate loads are at or near starting charges. Thank you for giving that info though it is most likely a heavier bullet that I will use. However, how does the actual bullet length compare to a 87 Vmax for instance? I know they are typically longer for weight than a SP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hersh5317

RBP, I noticed that often the most accurate loads are at or near starting charges. Thank you for giving that info though it is most likely a heavier bullet that I will use. However, how does the actual bullet length compare to a 87 Vmax for instance? I know they are typically longer for weight than a SP.

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Sorry I don't have the answer to your question as I do not have the bullets to compare.

You could probably fool with the mag lips and maybe make it usable. I did not even try. I drop a shell in and give it a push with my finger and am careful closing the bolt so as not to bump bullet and change OAL. Been going to get a single shot adaptor, but have learned to load without it.

Bill

Hersh Per quickload the 87 v-max is 1.037" long and the SGK is .940"

BC's are .400 for the v-max and .310 for the SGK. pretty big difference

If I was doing it I would be inclined to a 6.5, Creed, Lapua or 260 Remington.

Seems more versatile.

Those are great rounds, but I would prefer to keep the powder capacity as low as possible to do what I need it to do. The 6.5x55 is a great round too, but much more power than what I need.

Hersh I took mine out for the second time on Sunday, rounds 26-50 have it down to just under 0.4 for 5 shots using a 95 gr. Sierra MK with just over the mid point of the load for IMR 4895 at 0.015 off the lands. I will chrono the load in a week or so after I tweak my load and tighten up the groups, had one group that was in the mid teens when I accidently touch off a shot with this 2.5 oz. trigger, threw the shot about an 1/8th inch out.

Sounds very promising Froggy. My rifle is the old style adjustable trigger that I will probably clean up to about 2.5 lbs, but not much more.