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I have an AXIS in .223, standard barrel. I'm trying different reloads and it seems to be stuck on groups in the .750" range at 100 yards. But, a lot of those groups are 3 or 4 shots in a smaller group and one or two out. Would a Boyd's stock make the groups more consistent and eliminate the strays? I don't have a lot of money to spend on the rifle but I could swing a stock if I knew it would help.
Hank
It may or may not. without knowing anything else... improving the trigger, your shooting and your reloading skills may be the best options.
The trigger is a hair under 1#, Been shooting rimfire and centerfire for a good while mostly from the bench. Reloaded for about 40 years off and on. I have a bunch more reload combinations to try, but it it is a stock issue, no reload will fix it and vice versa. Just trying to get an idea of whether most people see an accuracy improvement with a better stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
Hank
i camt to ask the same question so ill tag along. am i to understand the boyds stocks do not come with action pillars?
I don' think they come with pillars. Never seen them mentioned in the ads for the AXIS stocks but they may be an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by h2ogunr
Hank
Nope Lamp rod or alum pillar is a pretty simple upgrade. I've done a couple now with the help of the guys on here.
I put my BMag in a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock. It improved the accuracy considerably.
I'm not much of a group shooter.
When I get the wind right I can regularly hit a 3" gong at 400yds and hit the "head" on a 28" popper at 210yds.
I don't know for sure if the EABCO Revolution stock would fit an axis, it does fit my 12FV and turned it into a great shooter after bedding with Devcon 10110.
Quite an improvement over the factory plastic stock. They come with pillars installed and are very well made, IMOP.
http://www.eabco.net/Savage-Thumbhol...k_p_14233.html
Replacing the tupperware stock with a properly bedded aftermarket stock will most likely improve accuracy potential. Not to say .75" groups with a factory Axis sporter barrel and stock are not already pretty amazing. I assume you have tried letting the sporter barrel completely cool between shots. That might bring those 4th and 5th shot fliers back into the group if you're doing your part.
Good point about the barrel cooling. I shot again today at 100 yds; first group was the best - .490". The next three were - .610", .540", and .620. Those are the most consistent groups I've shot yet. I did let the barrel cool to almost no heat between groups. I have found that a shim under the barrel at the tip of the forend is mandatory for decent groups. Never had an AXIS so it's hard for me to get a feel for how much better I can expect it to shoot and that's why I asked my original question.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdown
Hank
I will look at my Boyds as it seems to be quasi if not adversitiesed pillar, it is the best shooting stock I have (the EABO has taken some work but is as good as it gets now and gets its run tomorrow. I did have to open up a lot of areas to get it fully onto the pillars (including the back of the trigger, not the tang but the trigger and that should be much deeper)
that said as you found out the cool down is very important. Once you get good 3 and 4 shot groups its something a bit odd.
I don't shoot 5 shot groups with Pencil barrels, just 3. that's is all they are good for though in 223 and varmint shooting you have a dilemma that is probably best solved with heavier barrel.
EACO has a good recoil pad. Quality is good, just have to open it up. If you go that route order it with the largest channel (bull or Varmint) you ever plan on putting in it, not too bad to open up but it does take elbow work and they do offer a full bull profile cut (the Heavy Varmint is off the shelf and is more than good enough for most shooting)
I like the Boys, the fit is better than the EABCO. the EABCO is well done, more target but my muffs hit the check riser. I can cut it off but hat to chuck up the wood doing so. Probably have my brother do it as he is good at it.
Once you are down in that sub 1/2 MOA then the rest tends to be shooter technique (or in my case inconsistent that I keep working on)
Sub 3/4 MOA in an Axis is pretty awesome. I've never shot one that can. I hear about it, but on the bench I usually get a different story. My 111 does 3/4 MOA all day long with my reloads and a 3/4 MOA shooter which is the best I seem to be able to muster CONSISTENTLY. one thing is if you are having to shim the end of the barrel and forearm. You may very well see a good amount of improvement with the boyds as that tells me either the harmonics just like being shimmed or the barrel is not properly free floated. I found with the factory plastic nonaccustock (I just got my first accustock so we will see once I get out and shoot it) I cannot shoot off the end of the forearm and have to move my bag to the magazine, which is the #1 reason I put a boyds on my 111. I'm hoping the accustock will allow me to run a bipod without having to swap stocks.
Boyds stocks for the Axis do not have pillars, nor are they equipped with metal bearing surfaces for pillars to contact. One can replace the plastic trigger guard Boyds includes with a steel one, and the plastic front escutcheon/mag latch now has an aluminum replacement from V3 Tactical.
That said, I don't know how much pillars contribute to overall accuracy. One thing Boyds does better than Savage is keeping the comb parallel to the bore. The comb is still too low for good cheek weld on most scopes, but it's more consistent.
I bedded a Stevens 200 7mm08 with a factory plastic stock. It is the most accurate rifle in the collection with the exception of a 6br f/classer. One hole five shot groups at 100. A hummer? Probably. 41 g R15 with a 140 SGK.
I appreciate everyones replies to my question. Looks as though the best thing is for me to accept that the rifle is a pretty good shooter for what it is and not try to make a target rifle out of it. When I want smaller groups, I'll get a rifle already set up for target shooting.
Thanks to all.......:thumb:
Hank
The Boyds stock that came with my Savage BTH111 (15 years old roughly) does have pillars in it (at least of a sort, not the same front as EABCO but also has the bottom magazine)
I checked the 111 receiver fit to the Boyds with grease on the receiver (shows up on the wood), very good. Even contact all along receiver, a small bit at the tang where it should not be but easily take care of. No need to bed in my opinion.
I don't know if its current, or its a Savage setup for them that the across the counters does not have but its well done and worth a call to Boyds to find out.
Fit is vastly better than the EABCO stock I got. I have make that work but a lot more work than a Stock that is supposedly made for the specific application should be. Odd contact points all over the place including the back of the trigger mechanism itself that was hitting a ledge in there (not the tang)
Once I get the final setup I will see if my brother will bed this for me.
The stock itself is nice quality, heavier than the BTH and more stable, the interior execution and the pillar setup was done wrong. All fixable but I was not expecting that nor do I like doing that type of work which is why I bought it, ie all setup free floating on the pillars.
I have seen very little improvement in replacing my stocks. The biggest jump in accuracy improvements that I have seen comes from a barrel change. I would save up for that if you really want to tighten up your groups. An aftermarket barrel will run you around $300 and you can sell your old barrel on the site here to help recoup some of the cost. Good luck on your decision.
I just replaced my Savage plastic stock with a Boyd's featherweight thumbhole. I did not see any accuracy improvement nor did I expect any. I replaced the factory stock for ergonomic and aesthetic reasons.
Some of the plastic Savage stocks are quite good. The one I replaced was the Trophy Hunter XP with the detachable plastic bottom "metal." That stock has pillars and is quite well-designed. Boyd's replacement stocks do not have pillars. I used the pillars from the factory stock in the Boyd's, along with a JB Weld bedding job.
Robinhood, i have the same rifle and i have been trying to find ways to improve accuracy. Debating whether to pick up a Boyd's platinum or do the bedding on factory. I have never bedded any of my rifles and have no idea where to start. Do you have a layout of how you do it with the factory stock?
I wouldn't bother trying to bed the factory Axis stock as the bedding is the least of it's problems. There's so much flex in the wrist area that any slight shift in grip pressure can result in the shot shifting a good 1/2" at 100 yards. Guys have wasted tons of money and time over the years trying to "fix" the Axis stock through various methods - gluing on the trigger guard piece, filling the voids in the stock, etc. to try and make it more rigid, but the results are always mediocre at best.
You're far better off just biting the bullet and spending the money on a Boyds stock from the get go because that's what you're going to end up doing in the end anyway.
The thing I liked even more about my Boyd's (Pro Varmint) was the weight and more grip area. Made ME more accurate at shooting the rifle.
And, yes, mine is a solid 3/4 MOA rifle (.223). But, I have close to 1000rnds through it now, mostly Sierra MK's and Norma match bullets.
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I won't try to credit it to my ability :rolleyes:. But my Axis 30-06 was shooting .50 to .75" groups at 100 yds. about two months ago when I last took it to the range. I haven't modified it at all, so I guess I got real lucky with mine but it does shoot consistently on the original stock. I'm not a precision shooter it's used for hunting at moderate range. If I were going to shoot competitive match's I'd use something a lot more stable. All that said I thought about getting a Boyd but I'm pretty happy with my Axis as is.
I guess the other question I would ask is if you have rifles that shoot 1/2MOA or less on a regular basis? The reason I ask is because I have trouble shooting consistent 1/2MOA groups, but, it is me most of the time, not the rifle.
When getting down into those smaller groups a lot of factors come into play. Consistency with every part of reloading and shooting as well as more quality components. For example, the Norma match bullets I use in my .223 are good, but, the Sierra Matchkings will shrink the group a bit more. Same with using matched cases instead of mixed mil brass. My rifle also likes heavier bullets rather than lighter.
Then there is the effect of even a little bit of wind. You are talking about moving a bullet less than 1/4". Doesn't take much.