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How much prep do you guys put into your ammo for a match , normally for my just shooting ammo it would be trim to length , de-burr flash hole , chamfer case mouth and load . Now that I'm getting into BR shooting what extra steps should I be adding to case prep and loading ?
I've been loading for over 30 years but all my ammo has been Min. of Deer or Min. of Groundhog is good enough , now I guess I need to step things up a notch or two , and could use a few pointers .
Thanks
stimpy
I'm more of an F-class shooter, but I shoot from the bench using a .308 free recoil. These things have made my score go way up.
1. Sort cases by weight, but even better by water volume.
2. Sort bullets by weight.
3. Use a good seater die like Redding Competition die or Forster. Better yet get Wilson dies and arbor press.
I use a Lee Collet neck die only for sizing the neck only, it is fast but it can still take me up to 2 hours to load 50 rounds for a match.
Most BR guys will Full Length resize every time though for more over all consistency.
My routine for short range BR:
tumble all until clean
deprime with depriming die
full length size
trim to length
champher deburr-clean primer pockets
seat primers
double weigh powder carge
seat bullets all to with in.001 at ogive
takes me almost 3 hours for a batch of 50, not counting cleaning.
And I still have the occassional flyer and for score shooting to me they suck but they group well for group shooting.
I need to practice shooting score more much more difficult than group shooting.
Thanks guys , when Sharp Shooter built this rifle for me he also included a chamber stub to use as a shoulder set back gauge to insure that the case's fit properly , it helps a ton , so far I have weighed both case and bullet , keeping case's to with in 1 grain ( 223 ) 100g to 101g and bullets ( Sierra Match 69g ) to .01g , all the case's were trimmed to 1.755" as a few were just under the TTL of 1.760" so I made them all the same , I also used a Hornady seater die with the floating sleeve to help control run-out of the bullets , bullets seated to .005 of the lands , flash holes trued up and primer pockets uniformed .
Now to see if the thing will shoot = the $1,000,000 dollar question .
stimpy
The only step I add from the ones mentioned above is measuring bullet base to ogive. It has really helped get rid of flyers. I've been amazed that berger even in the same box can very up to .007" with a couple per box that are completly out of the ballpark.
Weight and sort everything
primers
brass
bullets
Check length at ogive
check concentricity (run out)
I suggest hand debuting the case necks after trimming. You need to make certain you have a smooth chamfer for the bullet to enter
And make sure to use top notch bullets or your wasting your time. Berger vld and amax also nosler custom comp.
Be careful not to touch the bearing surface on the bullet,, pick them up at the nose or wear rubber gloves LOL.
seriously???Quote:
Originally Posted by dansavage
I have no data to go by but the moisture from a finger print on the bearing surface could in time corrode slightly. You know when you have handled a bullet and set it aside for a few days, you will see a dis coloration from where you picked it up..for benchrest accuracy you need to rule out everything you can!Quote:
Originally Posted by foxx
Some people are bad. Theres guys that can touch and gun and if you dont oil it that day you'll see rust fingerprints on it the next day. So it may depend if your one of those people???
First I heard of that
I remember a while back I was showing off my new build to a buddy and I told him to LOOK at the crown. He ran his finger over and around the edge of my new crown,, I really had to hold my feelings in,, I didn't say any thing but I had to oil and clean the barrel when I got home! I guess I'm really starting to get picky, I'm finally moving up to the top on the score board for my local match's and do everything I can to do no harm to my rifles and ammo. That's just me though,, as I grow older I find myself being more "anal".Quote:
Originally Posted by limige
That's funny, Dan. I am almost 50, and I am finding as I get older I am LESS anal.
Of course, I've also noticed that since I have been on Effexor, I don't stress over much of any thing any more!
Stimpy,
Honestly your best advise will be with experience, and not from the internet. There are super talented people in your area that can help you with this.
On a factory gun shooting club short range BR match's, the biggest thing is case prep. I start out with cases that are all the same name, if possible buy them in lots. After that I would weigh the cases, and reject anything that is off from 1%. Basically weight all the cases, find the average, and then reject anything that is heavier or lighter than the average by 1%. example if your cases weigh 250grs, you would reject any case weighing heavier that 253, or lighter than 248. 1% of 250 is 2.5 I round up to .3.
Most Benchrest shooters will not tumble their brass, they clean the necks with 0000 steel wool. With that most competitive shooters will full length size every firing, and re-cut the primer pockets. Most will length trim after each yardage. (Around 75 rounds, and how ever firings that would be, most shooters used 25 cases, so about 4 firings.) The stub is a super useful tool. When checking your brass you want to make sure the die fit the chamber. Using your calipers measure right at the shoulder junction of the case body, and lock your calipers. Size the case and the calipers should move down the case about 10 thou, if the die is fitting the chamber. You will want to push the shoulder back about 1 to 2 thou, I don't lake any more than that, and on my PPC I go 1/2 thou.
The most critical thing in BR shooting is seating depth. measure your bullets by ogive, and makes sure they are the same where this will matter is when you seat the bullets you want them all to seat the same. Don't worry about bullet weight. On case length don't go by what the books claim, find your shortest piece, and trim the all to that length. The main thing is consistency.
Last off if you have any questions please feel free to send me a PM or even call me.
Pat
Of course, some advice on the internet is valuable...Quote:
Originally Posted by 82boy
The trick is knowing ship from shinola.
If you ask the right internet people, they will tell you they have all the right answers in spite of the fact that they, too, are on the internet. :)
Why is that better?Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSavage
The Redding aligns the bullet perfectly straight before and during the seating process. Wilson die's are what alot of bench rest shooters use, they are very precise and align everything perfect, if you google these items you'll see the benefits they provide, although Wilson and arbor press may be more time consuming. I would never bother with these special tools unless you goal is to shoot consistently under 1/2 MOA in a match rifle or long range hunting rig.Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelnel
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSavage
So they both align everything perfect. I am aware of the Wilson ones and the arbor press method. I can see using the Wilson dies if you are loading at the range using an arbor press, as it would be tough to use the Reddings that way. I just went through the process of selecting what to buy to reload my 6mm BR, and finally decided to go with the Redding Competition set with the micrometer bushing neck sizing die, the micrometer bullet seater and the body die (plus the proper TIN bushing) as I have been very happy with the Redding Competition set I have for my .308.Quote:
Wilson die's are what alot of bench rest shooters use, they are very precise and align everything perfect
I doubt I could produce any better ammo with the Wilson setup, and it is a whole new method to learn. Doing it with the Redding setup keeps me in familiar territory as far as methods goes, and I don't really see the benefit of the Wilson method for *me*.
And yes, I do shoot consistently under 1/2 MOA when I have tuned my load and am shooting properly with my .308.
When you run a case into the Redding seater your relying on accuracy of your press as well as you shell holder on the press, the case is not a true fit in the die. Wilson holds case perfect ommiting shell holder and press ram to seat the bullet, get it?
I also sort brass by weight. Out of about 600 Lake City 08 cases I have one batch of about 115 cases that weigh within .1gn (91.5-91.6)
The worst batch of 100 of these cases vary by .5gn.
I just bought 100 Lapua cases. The weight of these cases varies by almost 3gn (93.7-96.5).
I haven't fired the Lapua brass yet, I'm curious what the results will be side-by-side with the Lake City.
BTW 100 new Lapua at $60 = 60 cents apiece, 1000 once fired Lake City at $30 (some time back) = 3 cents apiece.
To answer Michael's question because inline seaters seat the bullet straight and less runout is the usual end result.
Brass (best brand you can get): sort by weight, trim length, chamfer/debur, uniform pockets, debur flash holes.
Bullets (berger,sierra,hornady): sort by bearing surface, verify weights are relative, uniform meplats.
That's just huntin ammo.