Browning headspace

I have been working with a Browning stainless stalker in 30-06 with the BOSS and thought i was doing OK. loading 150 Ballisitic tips,RL19 and a mag primer. Out yesterday at 200 yds and it was all over the place,tried BOSS from 1.5 to 4 and couldn't get any consistency,mostly around 3". This gun should do better than that I thought. When I got home and looked at the brass I noticed that one case had incipient head seperation,cracked at the base 3/4 of the way around,only on it's 3rd loading.I don't have a gage for the '06 so I started with the packing tape on a FLS case.I got up to 6 pieces until the bolt wouldn't close. I then puled it off and measured it,came out to .016". Is this excessive? I measured the difference on a go/no go gage for another caliber and it was .012".I always FLS for this gun,hunting ammo.Should I just get a collet die set to better match the chamber,and all new brass,or should I have the HS checked and possibly repaired.Any input would be appreciated as it's not my gun and need to make some recommendations.

It does sound like your headspace is excessive. I think the normal difference between a go gage and a no-go gage is approx. .004. And while I'm here I have a question about your load. I have loaded more 30-06 than I care to think about with the Nosler 150 Ballistic Tip and RL19 powder (my favorite 30-06 powder) but have never used a magnum primer and was wondering why you are? I think you would get much more consistent ignition and lower your pressure levels if you would use a standard LR primer.

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

I don't have a gage for the '06

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Well, we're in the same 'burg so your more than welcome to borrow mine. If you don't have a caliper I have a cheapie Lyman that's been laying here for the past 50 years I'll give you...FREE. With a 3/8" socket on the shoulder you'll at least you'll be able to compare the new, sized and fired brass to the gauges so you have any idea if it the brass, the chamber or a combination of both.

Let me know.

Bill

Full length sizing without a case headspace measurement is not advisable. Some gauges will oversize brass and bump the shoulder back too far. I was doing the same thing when I first started sizing cases for semi auto 556 and 762. Bought a case headspace measuring tool and it has never happened again. I did have 400+/- rd's of 1x LC brass I had to fire form in a bolt gun I head spaced .005 short just to reclaim my brass. Still have 200 that needs forming.

Rule of thumb I heard many years ago that anything over 50 gs of stick powder should get a mag primer,especially if to be used in cold temps.

Bill,are you talking about a go/no go gage or something else.I only neck or collet size all of my own stuff but only have a FL sizing die set for '06. These shouldn't have seperated after only 3 loadings and not showing any pressure problems.

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

Bill,are you talking about a go/no go gage or something else.I only neck or collet size all of my own stuff but only have a FL sizing die set for '06. These shouldn't have seperated after only 3 loadings and not showing any pressure problems.

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I talking about the headspace gauges and a way to measure the brass, casehead to the shoulder after FL sizing. Without measuring your flying blind and guessing if the chamber is long, the brass is short or a combination of both.

For example, my 280 GO and shimmed .002x" to serve as the No Go
http://i44.tinypic.com/2iw63x4.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/2jczvac.jpg

A case fired in that chamber and one with my FL die adjusted for a .002" bump.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2e1yrfn.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/295x0eq.jpg

You don't need real to spec measurements like above, only a way to compare them. Why I said using a 3/8" socket on the shoulder to get some number to compare.


Unless its defective you should easily get more than three sizing-firing cycles from your brass, upper loading window or not. I just tossed a batch of 7-08s with 8 and then only because I thought it was about time. :p

Bill

As another thought, have you checked the actual headspace of the rifle with your go and no go gauges? I just thought you might want to check that too and make sure your chamber isn't too deep and make sure you haven't had a case of lug setback.

The process BillPa is talking about determines if your headspaced correctly as well. You can go to SAAAMI website and looking up your caliber case drawing and use your fired case to verify. It also gives you knowledge of every chamber in every rifle you will ever own regardless of the caliber. Then it will repay you by helping you set your dies up correctly every time.

Bill, next time you want to throw brass away let me know and I will send shipping $.

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

Rule of thumb I heard many years ago that anything over 50 gs of stick powder should get a mag primer,especially if to be used in cold temps.

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My thumb is different sized. I make the jump to mag primers at 100g.

Very bad advice, I've never heard anything like that before. Look in the loading manual. I doubt very seriously that they are using a magnum primer for a 30-06 load.

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Originally Posted by geargrinder

My thumb is different sized. I make the jump to mag primers at 100g.

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You got them Phat thumbs!

I have used mag primers in non magnums with certain powders in non magnum cases. Not for a paper puncher though.

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Originally Posted by efm77

As another thought, have you checked the actual headspace of the rifle with your go and no go gauges? I just thought you might want to check that too and make sure your chamber isn't too deep and make sure you haven't had a case of lug setback.

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As mentioned above I don't have a set for 30-06. Oh,and I refuse to even pull a trigger on something that burns over 100 gs of powder.

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Originally Posted by stangfish

You got them Phat thumbs!

I have used mag primers in non magnums with certain powders in non magnum cases. Not for a paper puncher though.

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Fat thumbs, and I've spend a lot of time working loads on big boomers.

I get much lower ES from regular large rifle primers (CCI BR2, or Fed 210m). I use them on everything I shoot up to RUM sized cases. For my RUM sized stuff and larger, I use Fed215m.

Just wanted people to know that there are different opinions on things. I've done enough testing and experimenting to know what works best for me and my equipment.



243LPR,

I'd rather spend time behind my sporter 338RUM than my sporter 308. Recoil is much different, 338 gives a slow rolling shove. 308 gives me a much sharper punch.

BillPa,clean out your PM box, it's full.

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

BillPa,clean out your PM box, it's full.

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Its OK now.

Thanx again Bill for the loan of the gauges. Bolt closes on Go,doesn't on No Go. So headspace is good,must've been something with me over sizing the brass. There is a new collet die set on the way and some new brass,we'll just have to start over and pay closer attention to the loading process. I should know better but should get it right this time.

In my experience in reloading. When I first set my resizing die I lube well, use a smokey kitchen match to blacken the neck and a bit of the shoulder. Leave the dies unscrewed a few turns.
Run the case up into the die. Remove and look at the neck. You should see the black pushed down the neck part way. Screw the die in a bit. Run the case in and out, check the black.
Keep repeating this till the black just touches bottom of the neck with it just touching the black on the shoulder.
Now clean the case off. Test this case for fit in your rifle. Will the bolt close easily? Or does it take a bit of force? If it's a bit tight then screw the die in and resize another case and test fit it in the rifle. At some point you will find a point where you are resizing the case to a point where the headspace is at a minimum.
Now try this case with the tape to see how much space you have.
Leo

Or you could measure a fired case. Set your die up to bump the shoulder, lock it down and be done with it.