Savage 10TR LEO Without Muzzle Break Update

Back in September I blogged about the Savage 10TR LEO. Immediately I began to get emails questioning the rifles capability and it's accuracy. There were many speculations for example the barrel needing to be broken in, the after market muzzle brake affecting the barrel harmonics. I offered up needing to find the right load and a high probability of the shooter being the issue. Well today I was able to make it out to the range to try the rifle without the JP enterprises muzzle brake. Before I continue on about the rifle let me first say this muzzle brake works and works well. Without the muzzle brake the rifle noticeably recoiled more, I rate this muzzle brake a 5 out of 5 stars and as soon as another crusher washer arrives from Brownells I will be reinstalling it. This also means I didn't notice any increase in accuracy after removing the muzzle brake, but I did notice an increase in accuracy with a different load.


I received many emails from many readers, some indicating I was giving Savage a bad name with my poor shooting, others saying I was taken by Savage and should demand a refund as it would never compete with a Remington 700. Amongst all of the emails I did find a hidden gem. One of the readers mentioned I should try 43grains of IMR4064 under the Sierra 168gr MatchKing BTHP. He indicated he has won many matches with the recipe and also pointed me to 6mmbr.com. After checking my Sierra reloading manual and Lyman 48&49 manuals and determining this to be a safe load I decided to load a few rounds to try. It is always best practice to start at the minimal load and work your way up to your intended load, I typically increase my loads in increments of .5grains.


As it turns out the Savage 10TR seemed to like the new load.
Groups were shot at 100 Yards from bench rest. And all rounds measured, I did not exclude any flyers some of which I knew was because of me.
Reload — Sierra 168gr Matchking IMR 4064 Group Size .745
http://www.dayattherange.com/weapons...0TRNoBreak.jpg
http://www.dayattherange.com/weapons/Savage10TR19.jpg
After seeing the results of the new IMR 4064 load in the Savage 10TR, Darrell and I thought we should see how it performs in the DPMS SASS AR10 with Yankee Hill Suppressor, we both were excited by the results.
http://www.dayattherange.com/weapons/AR10.jpg
The two groups on the left were shot with the new IMR load. The middle group was shot with Winchester Match which did not perform in either rifle and was disappointing considering the price for one box being $12 more expensive than Federal Gold Medal Match.
http://www.dayattherange.com/weapons/AR10Suppressor.jpg

Wow that should be muzzle brake. Thats what happens when you rush something without proof reading.

Just an FYI, your Savage rep who told you that Savage made these for Law Enforcement Only fed you a line of B.S. Savage doesn't make anything that's LEO only, never has and likely never will. That's because Remington has too strong a hold on that market and Savage's annual sales to actual law enforcement offices is miniscule at best - maybe a couple hundred units if they're lucky.

This Model 10 TR along with several other models (Model 10 P, 10 P-SR, 10 VT, etc.) are nothing more than distributor exclusives. In fact, your Model 10 TR is simply a 10 FCP-SR with a black stock (rather than digital camo), standard DBM magazine arrangement (rather than the AI setup), and a 110BA bolt handle (rather than the standard large round knob).

Here's how it works...

A distributor calls up Brian Herrick at Savage (VP of Sales & Marketing) and says "hey, we want something no one else can get and we want 2,500 of them." In turn, they come up with a unique model using an a la cart method of "I want this stock, this barrel, this bolt handle, this scope (if a package rifle), etc." Basically Savage will put together any workable combination of off-the-shelf parts to make an exclusive for a distributor. Some distributors will go as far as to provide their own unique stocks to be used on these exclusive rifles (the Talo Mako and Shark models from a few years back are prime examples).

Other manufacturers do the exact same thing for distributors. Ruger does several different exclusive models for Lipsey's every year. I was just looking through a distributors catalog the other day out at SSS and saw several Remington and Winchester exclusives that they were offering. Any company will do it for any distributor so long as they are willing to order a large enough quantity to make it worth their while.

I'm not trying to put down the gun or your blog post or anything like that, I"m just trying to make sure the truth behind it and similar models is being reported rather than internet rumor and/or speculation.

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One of the readers mentioned I should try 43grains of IMR4064 under the Sierra 168gr MatchKing BTHP

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As one long time M1A and .308 bolt-gun shooter said "if it won't shoot that load the rifle is cursed".

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

Just an FYI, your Savage rep who told you that Savage made these for Law Enforcement Only fed you a line of B.S. Savage doesn't make anything that's LEO only, never has and likely never will. That's because Remington has too strong a hold on that market and Savage's annual sales to actual law enforcement offices is miniscule at best - maybe a couple hundred units if they're lucky.

This Model 10 TR along with several other models (Model 10 P, 10 P-SR, 10 VT, etc.) are nothing more than distributor exclusives. In fact, your Model 10 TR is simply a 10 FCP-SR with a black stock (rather than digital camo), standard DBM magazine arrangement (rather than the AI setup), and a 110BA bolt handle (rather than the standard large round knob).

Here's how it works...

A distributor calls up Brian Herrick at Savage (VP of Sales & Marketing) and says "hey, we want something no one else can get and we want 2,500 of them." In turn, they come up with a unique model using an a la cart method of "I want this stock, this barrel, this bolt handle, this scope (if a package rifle), etc." Basically Savage will put together any workable combination of off-the-shelf parts to make an exclusive for a distributor. Some distributors will go as far as to provide their own unique stocks to be used on these exclusive rifles (the Talo Mako and Shark models from a few years back are prime examples).

Other manufacturers do the exact same thing for distributors. Ruger does several different exclusive models for Lipsey's every year. I was just looking through a distributors catalog the other day out at SSS and saw several Remington and Winchester exclusives that they were offering. Any company will do it for any distributor so long as they are willing to order a large enough quantity to make it worth their while.

I'm not trying to put down the gun or your blog post or anything like that, I"m just trying to make sure the truth behind it and similar models is being reported rather than internet rumor and/or speculation.

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Thank you for the feedback I do not take it as a put down. The interesting fact is a number of the local shops has this marked LEO sales only and makes you present your badge and City, State or Federal ID to be able to purchase this. A buddy of mine was with me whom is not LEO and asked if I could purchase two, of course we all know the legal ramifications nor is it responsible. But the shop was less worried about the legal ramifications and more worried about their reputation with Savage and this so called special program.

That's what happens when you have Rent-a-Rep's rather than actual company employee's as sales rep's - they make crap up to sell more guns because they work off a commission. Either that or those dealers simply think that because these models resemble the models in Savage's Law Enforcement Series that they're Law Enforcement Only or the dealer himself is making up the story to make it more appealing to perspective customers. Savage doesn't have a dedicated branch/division of the company that's solely for law enforcement/military sales like Remington does, and as I noted previously they don't have a big enough stake in the law enforcement market to justify making anything that's restricted to LEO - and why would they when there's nothing about the gun that would necessitate it being designated LEO only?

Mr. Furious it sounds like you are affiliated with Savage in some way and know this as gospel. I do not know if Savage has a LEO branch or not again why I stated the Savage Rep made this indication. I do know that there other Rifles on the shelf marked LEO only that requires ID. Whats interesting is that this is the case at a number of local dealerships. Maybe this rep has created this across the state to generate more commission for himself.

Interesting to say the least.

Running this site the past 11 years I've made a few friends up in Westfield, many of which have Director, Manager or VP in their title. I actually shot an email off to one of them this afternoon requesting a complete list of distributor exclusives they've made this year with spec's and SKU numbers, but I'm not going to hold my breath hoping they'll actually provide it as they can get a little protective of insider information like that even though it's really not all that private in the grand scheme of things.

Awesome that would be great if it materialized. Also please note I am not calling into question your knowledge. If you want to contact me off list I can provide you the name of dealers. You may have even visited a few considering where you are from:). I have also been told by a reader that Savage has discontinued this model not sure if that is valid either.

How can it be discontinued when it was never a cataloged model? LOL I tell ya, some of the stories I've heard trying to explain these distributor exclusive models can get entertaining to say the least.

Back at the end of 2001 Savage redesigned the 10ML muzzleloader into the 10ML-II to make it non-4473 compliant and found themselves with a lot of leftover 10ML actions that they couldn't sell as muzzleloaders. So what did they do? They machined in a magazine port and built them into short-action blind-mag sporter rifles with a unique Turkish Walnut stock (designated the Model 14W) and sold them all to Jerry's Sport Center & Elliot Brothers as a distributor exclusive (nothing ever goes to waste at Savage...EVER!).

However, there was a hitch with these guns as even though they were all chambered for standard cartridges they were all large shank actions. Additionally, rather than having the correct (for that time) "F" serial number prefix, they all had an "M" prefix. Well, that's because back then Savage gave all muzzleloaders an "M" prefix to distinguish them from centerfire actions, and all 10ML/10ML-II actions were and continue to be large shank actions.

However, the story being given to and by dealers was a lot different - these were a "very special limited edition" run and would be considered collector guns due to the Turkish Walnut stock. Mind you dealer cost on these was like $290 and the street price was around $330-340. How many limited edition collector guns do you know of that ever sold in that price range? lol

I know Jody here (JCalhoun) bought one of the 14W's, and my 10ML-II muzzleloader is fitted with the Turkish Walnut stock that came off a 14W in .243 Win that my cousin had bought.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...II-Restock.jpg

I heard back from Bill today and he tells me that all the information on the distributor exclusives will soon be available on a new separate section of their website. I imagine they probably get just as many inquiries from confused customers as we do around here regarding these mystery models.

Going back to mr.relvolverguy's shooting of the 10TR, you TR just isn't cutting it. Anything over 1 inch at 100 yards is poor especially for handloads. Have you tried factory loads, such as Federal Gold 168 and 176 SMK's?

I am old, bad shoulder and more of a semi-auto pistol shooter, but after over 300 rounds of factory 308 ammo, my 10TR has NEVER shot over 1 MOA. Shot 126 grain Atomic low recoil, 147 Armscor (cheap stuff), 150 grain Norma, 168 GRN Hornady BTHP, and Federal Gold 168 and 176 SMK's. It does like the Hornady (0.18 MOA) and the Federal Gold 168 and 176 SMK's at about 0.2 to 0.3 MOA.

I agree the JP Enterprise is about the best muzzle brake available. Without it I could not shoot 10 rounds without severe pain. With it I typically shoot 40 rounds at each range session. I now have 4 rifles in 6.8 SPC II, two AR's and 2 Savages, all with 20 inch barrels. The 10TR with JP brake reduces recoil to LESS than the 7-8 pound Savages.


MrFurious, we all would like Savage Arms to have our "specials" information available to us to on the Savage web site. The web site doesn't recognize my serial number now.

Do you have a link to the muzzle break you use?

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Originally Posted by brasse

Going back to mr.relvolverguy's shooting of the 10TR, you TR just isn't cutting it. Anything over 1 inch at 100 yards is poor especially for handloads. Have you tried factory loads, such as Federal Gold 168 and 176 SMK's?

I am old, bad shoulder and more of a semi-auto pistol shooter, but after over 300 rounds of factory 308 ammo, my 10TR has NEVER shot over 1 MOA. Shot 126 grain Atomic low recoil, 147 Armscor (cheap stuff), 150 grain Norma, 168 GRN Hornady BTHP, and Federal Gold 168 and 176 SMK's. It does like the Hornady (0.18 MOA) and the Federal Gold 168 and 176 SMK's at about 0.2 to 0.3 MOA.

I agree the JP Enterprise is about the best muzzle brake available. Without it I could not shoot 10 rounds without severe pain. With it I typically shoot 40 rounds at each range session. I now have 4 rifles in 6.8 SPC II, two AR's and 2 Savages, all with 20 inch barrels. The 10TR with JP brake reduces recoil to LESS than the 7-8 pound Savages.


MrFurious, we all would like Savage Arms to have our "specials" information available to us to on the Savage web site. The web site doesn't recognize my serial number now.

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Yes sir I listed all of the factory ammunition I have tried in the article.

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Originally Posted by Moundman

Do you have a link to the muzzle break you use?

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http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.3_tre.php

Thanks