458x2 American

I'm not sure if this belongs in the wildcat forum or here, but thought I'd run this up the flag pole. You may be called to testify at my sanity hearing.

I want to try a big but slow brush load that doesn't punish my shoulder. I have been seriously pursuing the 358 Winchester until I read an article about the 458x2 . So, here is the rambling of someone stuck indoors too long.

You can buy pre-fit 458 win mag barrels for a savage action. I've read the 458x2 is simply a 458 win mag shortened by a half inch. Can you envision having a 458 win mag barrel shortened 1/2 inch at the breech to accommodate the 458x2 American? I'm betting there is 1/2 inch of excess thread at the nut end, or perhaps enough that when combined with a shortened nut, would headspace. These pre-fit barrels are considerably less expensive than having a custom barrel made to order and much less than a 2XL straitjacket.

Does anyone have any experience with the 458 pre-fit barrel kit that Brownells and others sell? Can you tell me whether it is a small or large shank?

Does this even sound feasible or has cabin fever taken its toll? We got up to a balmy Zero again today.

Hoot

Why wouldnt you just build a lighter load in the 458 mag? Seems like a lot of wasted time and effort when you could just put less and/or different powder in the full lenght case. Drop the speed down to 1200 fps and the cases will probably last forever.

guess it depends how much time you want to spend on trimming brass as which idea would work best. It would give you something to do! I learned that when I made a bunch of .44 Russian brass from .44 mag. (easier to sort then using SP case)
Cheaper to load is not always the way we want things to look when the cases are out on the bench for some one to ask 'what are you shooting?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hotbrass

Why wouldnt you just build a lighter load in the 458 mag? Seems like a lot of wasted time and effort when you could just put less and/or different powder in the full lenght case. Drop the speed down to 1200 fps and the cases will probably last forever.

---

I considered that but was concerned about not meeting minimum case volume of powder and risking potential detonation http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm.

If I had deep pockets and a little creativity I might contrive a straightwall wildcat utilizing .308 brass and .430 bullet. The 444 Hoot :D
Hoot

.

The 458 Win Mag has not got very much capacity to begin with. Its history is one of lots of study trying to match originally advertised velocities. Eventually advertised velocities were substantially reduced. Lots of African bound hunters have gone to larger capacity 458s like the 458 Lott and larger. Have played with most 458 bore cartridges but have used only the 460 Weatherby in Africa.

Having said that, the 458 x 2 American is a fun case to play with and has lots of potential in the whitetail woods.

.

I say, why not just get a 458 barrel and chamber it for 450 Marlin? Only 0.10" longer, still usable in short action guns, and factory brass. \

You could easily use 45-70 load data for the light loads, and 450 marlin data for the heavy stuff.

What is the downside?

You could use 45-70 reduced load data in a 458 mag also.

Look at the Hodgdon Load data for the 458 mag. Reduced loads with Trail Boss are very light.

I would not bother with the .458X2/.458 American. You have a ton of money and time invested in shotening and converting brass for the new round. In addition, there is still the possibility of chambering and firing a short cartridge in any of the belted magnum chambers with disasterous results which is why the .450 Marlin came into being. ER Shaw and most custom barrel makers chamber for the .450 so the cost would be acceptable. You have a ton of loading options which make this a .450 a very versital round.
Terrier

.

Nothing wrong with the 450 Marlin case capacity, but would not chamber for it specifically.

The problem is not anything mechanical.

But the cartridge case itself has a unique dimension size belt for headspacing.

This means you will be dependent on a unique, low production made brass case not easily made from others and one which could be dropped easily by the manufacturer.

Would recommend a similar size chamber as the 450 Marlin but made with a conventional case belt.

Just a thought...


.

+1 with 458 Winny reduced loads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hammer

.

Nothing wrong with the 450 Marlin case capacity, but would not chamber for it specifically.

The problem is not anything mechanical.

But the cartridge case itself has a unique dimension size belt for headspacing.

This means you will be dependent on a unique, low production made brass case not easily made from others and one which could be dropped easily by the manufacturer.

Would recommend a similar size chamber as the 450 Marlin but made with a conventional case belt.

Just a thought...


.

---

I just got a good buy on a 450 Marlin barrel for an Encore and have been working up loads for it. It seems very accurate, even though it is a hand full too shoot. I do agree with Hammer about not chambering for it and spending a lot of money on it.

You can make 458x2 cases easier by fire forming 350 Rem mag cases and trimming. Forming them from 458 win requires inside neck reaming.

.

Quote:

---

Forming them from 458 win requires inside neck reaming.

---

It all depends on how you chamber them.

If you run the reamer in with a Craftsman hand-held drill and wiggle it around a little while you run it in and out, you can get more room for neck wall thickness and wall variation.


.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hammer

.

Quote:

---

Forming them from 458 win requires inside neck reaming.

---

It all depends on how you chamber them.

If you run the reamer in with a Craftsman hand-held drill and wiggle it around a little while you run it in and out, you can get more room for neck wall thickness and wall variation.

---

worked out when I did a .22rf to mag with a drill and drill bit. cases slid in very easy. now if that ejecter only had a lot more power.
some day I need a spot to set up a lath ;)

ever look at the .416 taylor with 350gr slugs?

I did not realize that I left out an important detail regarding why I wanted the 458x2 over the 458 Win.
Short Action vs Long Action.
Hoot

Do it. Let us all know how it works. A local shop here had a 600 rebarreled to 458x2, and every time I picked it up I wanted it.. When I finally ready to buy it - it was gone.

Holding that gun w/20" bbl side by side with a Marlin guide gun, the 600 was shorter. Nothing against the guide guns, but I'm a bolt guy - it had a lot of appeal.

Cutting brass isn't that big of a deal. I load the herretts, and in a weird way I enjoy prepping cases for them more than I do for the 'easy' cases. I would echo the other posters comment about the 450 marlin... The belt width is thicker - so you could get factory brass now, but in a few years it might be tough. With the 458x2 you can cut down any of the HH-based cases, and make your own brass.

Good luck. Have fun.

Nate

If you were going to go the custom route why not 450 Bushmaster?

It uses the .473 bolt head and can do exactyl what you are wanting. I have a Savage chambered in 45 ACP for my wife, she loves it for the light recoil and if we ever decide to go heavier we are going to ream it out the Bushmaster round.

Just my crazy thoughts on this

Dolomite

They're not crazy. That's exactly what I have been reading up on these past few weeks. I've spent countless hours, I mean countless, reading everything I can Google about the three Thumper calibers available in an AR platform. In order to justify to my conscience and our family budget, the need for a second build in less than a year, I'm going to write this effort off to a close-in, dense cover deer hunting rifle reinforced by the "little boy" fascination with owning a Thumper. Actually, there is little rhyme or reason to what catches my fancy for projects during these interminably long winters up here.
Hoot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoot

I'm going to write this effort off to a close-in, dense cover deer hunting rifle reinforced by the "little boy" fascination with owning a Thumper. Actually, there is little rhyme or reason to what catches my fancy for projects during these interminably long winters up here.
Hoot

---

LOL why I have a 416 taylor

I have an AR set up with the .50 Beowulf upper.

Kinda wished I had gone with the .458 SOCOM.

While I have been extremely pleased with the Beowulf, there are quite a few more bullet choices for the SOCOM.

Also, the Beowulf spaces off the case mouth while the SOCOM has a shoulder.

Not sure if you seen my post when I built my wife's 45 ACP Savage. Here are a few:
Front sight:
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/frontsight.jpg[/img]

A few views:
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/overallside.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/overall.jpg[/img]

Rear sight:
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/rearsight.jpg[/img]

Sight picture:
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/sightpicture.jpg[/img]

It has a Shilen barrel cut to an overall length of 17". The front sights are Tech Sights that are made for .920 barreled 10/22's. The rear sights are Williams WGRS with a ghost ring. I wasn't really sure if the heights would work but they actaully work perfectly with each other. The stock is s stock I use when working on stuff so don't think that is the stock that will stay with it.

My wife is extremely accurate with this setup (as with any of the many guns she shoots) and works well for what it was built for, problem animals that show up from time to time. With the ghost ring sights she has absolutely no problems getting in on the animals accurately and with the HOT 45 ACP loads it makes short work of them regardless of what it is.
Here are a few loads:
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/250SSTand200GDHP.jpg[/img]
200 grain Gold Dots and some 250 grain SST's. I have actually loaded and shot the SST's out of a 1911 before when I was doing some testing and they worked OK.

She has a few other guns but those have red dots that need her to turn them on before shooting. With this she really likes the fact there is nothing to mess with, just point and shoot.

Good luck with your project

Dolomite