savage barrel swich to marlin XL7 & XS7

HAVE ANY OF YOU FOUND THIS TO BE TRUE
This copied from www.24hourcampfire.com

The diameter and thread specs are the same for the Savage 110 series barrels and the Marlin XL/XS-7 barrels. The potential problem is that the Marlin XL/XS-7 bolt face is recessed more than the Savage 110 series, so it is POSSIBLE for the front of the Marlin bolt to come into contact with the rear of a Savage/Stevens barrel before proper headspace has been achieve. This would create excess/long headspace and the case WOULD stretch and COULD seperate when fired. To be SURE of getting proper headspace, I have cut 0.1" off the rear of the A&B barrel in 257 Roberts that I installed on a Marlin XS-7 action. I had to recut the chamber, since cutting 0.1" off the rear of the barrel created a "short chamber" situation. While you might not need to go to this extra effort, I think that it is a good idea to do so, to insure that this is a safe barrel installation. As with many things, some people are going to say that the barrels are 100% interchangable without any modifications, but that has not been my experience because of the the differences in the recess of the bolt faces.

...No reason to cut the bbl. any...It's the bolt head that needs the work on... :-[

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Originally Posted by 1Shot

...No reason to cut the bbl. any...It's the bolt head that needs the work on... :-[

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but if you do that then how can you put a savage barrel back with that bolt head?

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Originally Posted by okie2

... The potential problem is that the Marlin XL/XS-7 bolt face is recessed more than the Savage 110 series,

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...Now ask me that question again..Blue Av... ::)...Now how is cutting the bbl. going to change that dimension... ???

I am thinking the same thing. The bolthead is the problem, not the barrel. It says he cut the barrel, which made it a short chamber, so he had to redo the chamber. Now wouldnt he end up with what he originally started with? Doesnt the chamber have to be cut with a specific amount of case head protrusion? So it cant really be changed, can it? Or am I just missing something here?

Seems like maybe truing the boltface mighta been a better option, if it would allow for the clearance.

I did this swap and never had an issue.
more info on these @ MarlinOwners.Com/forum

savage has a working system with there barrel and bolt relation right?

so why would it be the savage bolt that is wrong for the action when you introduce a barrel not intended to be used on the savage action?

why can it not be that marlins barrel (or maybe just that one even) is not a perfect match for a savage action?
( not saying you can't, just was not built with that in mind)

can you say that the chamber was cut right to start with? not a factory error?

what is the spec depth of a marlin bolt head?

Ok, I have both types.
The Bolt face on my XL-7 IS NOT recessed more than my Savages. YES the barrels are the same Thread spec. YES the Savage nut wrench fits both, YES the nuts are the same. As for why the author is such a boob, I don't know... Were the purported recession of bolt face an issue, he would have merely had to install the Savage bolt head; they are both floating. They come apart the same way.

Darkker, Is the savage head to marlin bolt a swap that can happen with no machine work? A friend just bought a marlin and would like to try a few of my savage barrels. Thanks, Bill

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Originally Posted by fatdaddy

Darkker, Is the savage head to marlin bolt a swap that can happen with no machine work? A friend just bought a marlin and would like to try a few of my savage barrels. Thanks, Bill

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Cool, you guys can tear your guns apart and check swapping parts for us! :)

wow that does not make sense what that guy was doing.

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Originally Posted by sinman

wow that does not make sense what that guy was doing.

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ya, that is where they lost me too.

[img width=549 height=450]http://home.comcast.net/~bcpryor/temp/MarlinSavageBoltHeads.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=332]http://home.comcast.net/~bcpryor/temp/MarlinSavageBoltFaces.jpg[/img]

Can someone measure your "0.473" bolt face depths? I only have the LA 223 in the photo.

Also, exactly what is the difference between long and short action bolt heads? Side-by-side photos?

Thanks,

Bruce

If the depth of the bolt head on the Marlin is .140", that means the chamber is shorter than on a Savage barrel.

Nice presentation! Thank you!

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

If the depth of the bolt head on the Marlin is .140", that means the chamber is shorter than on a Savage barrel.

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Except that he's comparing .378 and .473 bolt heads. The rim thickness is different and extractor groove is of a different depth between the .308 and .223 family of cartridges. That "comparison" demonstrates nothing.

I have a fantastic idea. Why not use Savage parts with Savage rifles and Marlin parts with Marlin rifles? ;)

If you wanted to switch barrels on a Marlin you could just have a custom barrel made for it. That way the chamber would be cut correctly. I feel like it will probably catch on with Marlin like it has with Savage since the barrels are installed the same way. Anyone set up to make Savage barrels could just as easily make Marlin barrels since the shanks and threads are the same. If the bolt face is a different depth they would just have to cut the chamber to the correct depth.

Here's a comparison of Savage Short Action .473 and .378 bolt heads, actual measurements not rounded off.

Checking a .473 size Savage bolt head, I'm coming up with .112" depth for the bolt face, .435" for lug thickness front to rear, .998" length for the stub that goes into the bolt head measured from the rear lug surface, and .461" diameter for the stub.
Now the other one, .115" depth for the bolt face on a .378 size bolt head. Lug thickness .436~.437", .995" stub length, and .462" stub diameter.
I think what we're seeing here is production tolerances, plus I'm just using a dial caliper for these measurements, but they're pretty close.

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Originally Posted by efm77

If you wanted to switch barrels on a Marlin you could just have a custom barrel made for it. That way the chamber would be cut correctly. I feel like it will probably catch on with Marlin like it has with Savage since the barrels are installed the same way. Anyone set up to make Savage barrels could just as easily make Marlin barrels since the shanks and threads are the same. If the bolt face is a different depth they would just have to cut the chamber to the correct depth.

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The are, there is a wed site for them also. http://www.marlinowners.com/

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Originally Posted by Savage_Jake

I have a fantastic idea. Why not use Savage parts with Savage rifles and Marlin parts with Marlin rifles? ;)

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Because I want to use aftermarket parts. Douglass, brux, Bell & Carlson, Rifle basix, Burris ...Savage has not made a scope in years!
I don't own one , but I can afford to pay attention ( Barley :) )
Ya, I know what you meant. But with a little Afro mouse engineering we will survive! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...animaniacs.gif

JS223,
I believe the same as you. What we are seeing is merely tolerance differences in production.
There are a couple of us who have switched barrels between Marlin and Savage, without any bolt mods needed for correct headspace.
Dangerous Dan has pics of his posted on the marlin site. Another gent has begun tackling the stock issue. Essentially you get a Model 70 stock and do some bedding, you can even change to a hinged floor plate.

kinda difficult to compare a 223 to a 243.

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Originally Posted by helotaxi

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

If the depth of the bolt head on the Marlin is .140", that means the chamber is shorter than on a Savage barrel.

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Except that he's comparing .378 and .473 bolt heads. The rim thickness is different and extractor groove is of a different depth between the .308 and .223 family of cartridges. That "comparison" demonstrates nothing.

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The depths of the bolt heads are the same for all calibers on a Savage rifle. I don't know for a fact if it's true for a Marlin, but I'd say so just for production reasons.

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Originally Posted by darkker

JS223,
I believe the same as you. What we are seeing is merely tolerance differences in production.

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I want to clarify that when I'm talking production tolerances, I mean Savage .473 size compared to .378 size. What I was saying is, the .473 and .378 bolt heads from Savage have basically the same depth of bolt face as each other. My info was to clear up the misconception that the .378 size Savage measurement was an invalid comparison. As you can see by my measurements, it's quite valid. I was only talking about the Savage parts, not Marlin ones.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

If the depth of the bolt head on the Marlin is .140", that means the chamber is shorter than on a Savage barrel.

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So that would mean you can't properly headspace a Savage barrel on a Marlin unless you lathe some material off the chamber face. The Marlin bolt hood would hit the Savage barrel before it headspaced properly. The Savage can utilize more chamber ramp for better feeding.

Big thanks to Bruce, nice pics. The measurement of .140" depth, is that within .001" or .010" ?
The Savage depth is approx .115" There is a slight dish shape from tumbling and I find the ones that measure deeper often have more dish, hence the deeper measurement. Say .115" - .117" normally.

First, an apology. A corrected photo has been posted.

Using a Starrett depth micrometer, I got new measurements.

To the nearest 0.001, my two Marlins are 0.130 deep. My Savage is 0.115 deep.

I need to retire my old dial caliper. When the depth micrometer is set at 0.130, the caliper measures it at 0.140.

Bruce

Safety on these barrel swaps is easy to check.

Before interchanging barrels, people need to measure cartridge protrusion from the chamber. That measurement must be greater than the bolt face depth.

Bruce

Are the extractors interchangeable? If so, it looks like the Marlin might be a little better. The claw is a little more curved.

Anything on the extractors?

I received a new Adams & Bennett Savage barrel finish chambered for 250 Savage.

Five new Remington 250 Savage cases protrude from the barrel 0.120(2), 0.121(2), and 0.122, measured with a depth micrometer. Savage bolt faces measure about 0.115 depth, which would allow several thousandths clearance between this barrel breech and a Savage bolt nose, when this barrel is screwed in until it is tight on a case or gauge. A GO gauge should be slightly longer than a case.

Headspace measurements I have for the 250 Savage are:

(GO 1.5792)
(NO GO 1.5852) = GO + 0.006
(FIELD 1.5892) = GO + 0.010

If this barrel is screwed in until it barely touches a Marlin XS7 bolt nose, there will be about 0.008 to 0.010 free space between the case and the XS7 bolt face, which is 0.130 deep. This makes the chamber between NO GO and FIELD size, not dangerous but not good for a new barrel installation.

Note that the barrel CANNOT be screwed in until it is tight on the new case, or tight on a GO gauge. The barrel will jam against the bolt nose first.

Bruce

PS Five new Winchester 243 cases protrude from the Marlin XS7 barrel 0.138(2), 0.139(1), 0.140(2).