New Savage 11VT

Have to say I am pretty impressed with this little rifle. I took it out this morning to start breaking in the barrel with some factory Federal Gold Medal Match in 77gr SMK's and this was the results of shots 11-15 at 100yds. I was cleaning between every shot 1-10 and then decided to rip off a 5 shoot string. Shot's 6-9 where in a .244 group but the wind got a hold of shot number 10 to stretch that group out to .612, and that was while I was cleaning between each shot. The wind was killing me at about a steady 14 to 17 with gust up to 25 from my 2 Oclock. I ordered a Manners stock for this thing, but now I am kind of afraid to touch it, as I think in no wind, hand loading, and more break in, this will be a sub .25 MOA gun.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...ps50ee7c26.jpg

Can't do a lot better than that with factory ammo. Why a Manners stock? Way to pricey for me. As for accuracy, minute of moose is OK for me. But then again, we don't get many 100 yd shots at anything here. The trees and bushes get in the way. Last month my editor got a 200 yds shot at a coyote............and missed.

El Lobo

No real reason on the Manners other than I wanted to try one and Stockys had a T2 in stock. I also have a B&C Medalist and HS M24 on other rifles, so thought I would try something different. Going to find one that I like the best and replace all the others over time with that brand.

Nice shooting...I just noticed this model at Dick's. I'm trying to find out what calibers it comes in...i'm guessing yours is a 243?

Thanks.

Correction...I just notice you're shooting .224 bullets so a 223? Also, did yours come w/ the bushnell scope and if so what do you think of it?

Yes mine is 223 and yes it did come with he Bushnell 4-12X40 scope. I never even really looked through the scope as I had a Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP that I did not end up using on another gun waiting for it. Looking through the Bushnell out my window it does seem to have decent glass for a lower end scope. I believe these are the Banner series of scopes. I believe these guns come in 223 and 308. I'm pretty happy with it and looking forward to seeing what some handloads will do, if I can ever get a hold of more Varget powder.

Hmm...i'm really looking for a 7-08 but this package (less the scope) seems about right! Thanks for the additional info.

shoalwater,

I have been interested in the Savage 11 VT in .223 ever since it was mentioned in another thread.

Thank you for posting some of your range results. I know you were breaking in the barrel, so the early groups may not have as much validity as later ones will, but did you keep up with the average size of all the groups you shot? Have you shot it anymore since your first post?

Did you find the 77 grain Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition on line or locally? I haven't seen any .223 ammunition in a store or on line in the two months I have been looking in preparation for buying a .223.

I know the barrel on the VT has a 9 inch twist. I am glad to know it will stabilize a 77 grain bullet, which is what I was hoping to use. That might save me buying a 7 or 8 inch twist barrel. The 26 inch barrel may have helped.

After having read your post, I feel comfortable buying one if my local DSG still has it in stock.

Shoalwater,
First off, nice shooting. I just picked up my VT in .308 a couple weeks ago and have yet to shoot it but it does my heart good to see it perform as I hoped it would after checking it out in the store. I am eagerly awaiting my chance to break mine in and then I'll see what I can do to post some range results. Hopefully we get some more discussions going on about the VT.

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Originally Posted by expfcwintergreen

I know the barrel on the VT has a 9 inch twist. I am glad to know it will stabilize a 77 grain bullet, which is what I was hoping to use. That might save me buying a 7 or 8 inch twist barrel. The 26 inch barrel may have helped.

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1:9 will stabilize a tangent ogive match bullet in the 75-77gr range (Hornady 75gr HPBT, Sierra 77gr SMK, Nosler 77gr CC) but will be exceedingly marginal if not outright unusable for a VLD-style secant ogive bullet in the same weight range (75gr A-Max, Berger VLD).

Lots of folks on the interwebs (especially in the AR world) say you can't run 75/77s in a 1:9...but my experience in three different rifles/barrels says otherwise.

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Originally Posted by BoilerUP

1:9 will stabilize a tangent ogive match bullet in the 75-77gr range (Hornady 75gr HPBT, Sierra 77gr SMK, Nosler 77gr CC) but will be exceedingly marginal if not outright unusable for a VLD-style secant ogive bullet in the same weight range (75gr A-Max, Berger VLD).

Lots of folks on the interwebs (especially in the AR world) say you can't run 75/77s in a 1:9...but my experience in three different rifles/barrels says otherwise.

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I took BoilerUP's advice in this matter and also can confirm that my VLP with a 9 twist barrel will stabilize the 75 grain hornady HPBT bullet. I am shooting it in their steel match ammo.

1ShotKing

[QUOTE=BoilerUP;175111]1:9 will stabilize a tangent ogive match bullet in the 75-77gr range (Hornady 75gr HPBT, Sierra 77gr SMK, Nosler 77gr CC)

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So the Federal Gold Medal Match 77 grain with the Sierra MatchKing BTHP bullet should stabilize in the 9inch twist barrel?That is the load I most wanted to shoot assuming I can actually find some locally?

Thanks for the clarification. I am new to being particular about ammunition or aware of the twist of a barrel so am swimming in deep water right now.

I did find the Federal Match ammo here locally, though they would only sell me one box at the time. I have not had a chance to shoot it anymore as I have no ammo right now, other than ball ammo for my AR. As the others mentioned you should be fine to shoot 75 HPBT's, 77 SMK's, or 70gr VLD's. My plans will be to load Hornady 75gr HPBT as they have a little better BC than the 77gr SMK's. I've got brass, primers, powder, but no bullets to be found anywhere. I'm anxious to get a load figured out so I can start shooting in a local monthly F class T/R matches. I can get Hornady Match ammo, both Superformance and Regular in the 75gr HPBT here locally, but I can't stand to buy more ammo when all I need is bullets to load it at a sixth of the price. If you need ammo I'd be happy to pick some up for you, just pay the cost plus shipping. Let me know.

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Originally Posted by expfcwintergreen

So the Federal Gold Medal Match 77 grain with the Sierra MatchKing BTHP bullet should stabilize in the 9inch twist barrel?

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Yes.

Now you very well might find that 69gr FGMM shoots "better" in your rifle, but that does mean 77s are unstable.

Thanks, BoilerUp. I realized early this morning that mine was a stupid question when it occurred to me that "SMK" is "Sierra Match King" not a style of bullet like "BT." You had already answered my question before I asked it.

Thank you, shoalwater for your generous offer, but the lack of .223 ammo locally is making me consider waiting until things calm down to decide whether to buy the Savage 11 VT in .223. Also, at present, there doesn't seem to be a price advantage to shooting .223 like I thought there would be.

Thank you very much for the offer.

I've been looking for a .223 varmint rifle and I've been considering something in the model 12 line up but when I saw this target and the price I hot-footed it down to the local Dick's. As my good fortune would have it they had an 11VT in 223. Cursory examination said it was just your basic Savage, detachable magazine action. WRONG!!! When I got it home and started taking it apart to clean it I discovered where the cost cutting was made. First, the bottom "metal" isn't metal! It's plastic. It looks EXACTLY like my model 10 PC bottom metal but alas it's just plastic as is the trigger guard. Secondly the magazine set up LOOKS like Savage's normal detachable magazine set up but it's not...it uses Axis magazines! And the icing on the cake is that my new rifle, in typical Savage fashion, will not feed the last round out of the magazine unless I put upward pressure on the rear of the magazine. So far Savage is 1 for 4 with me; first model 10 Precision Carbine wouldn't eject properly, model 16 223 wouldn't feed but first 2 rounds from the magazine, latest model 10 5R Precision Carbine is way less than accurate but happily my stainless 223 Axis is superbly accurate! Anybody want to buy a new, unfired 11VT? $500 and it's yours.

The "Axis" magazine is an inaccurate generalization. Savage has put this magazine type in several different models, including those which are more expensive than the 11 VT. For example, the Lady Hunter and also the Lightweight Hunter (yes plastic saves weight so it makes sense), just to name a few models. Also, if you didn't realize that the rifle had that magazine type until you got it home, who is to blame? That's almost as bad as talking a rifle home without thoroughly examining it.

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Originally Posted by 1ShotKing

The "Axis" magazine is an inaccurate generalization. Savage has put this magazine type in several different models, including those which are more expensive than the 11 VT. For example, the Lady Hunter and also the Lightweight Hunter (yes plastic saves weight so it makes sense), just to name a few models. Also, if you didn't realize that the rifle had that magazine type until you got it home, who is to blame? That's almost as bad as talking a rifle home without thoroughly examining it.

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I don't really care that it uses the cheaper of the two detachable magazine styles but I most certainly DO CARE if the rifle can feed from the magazine. Mine won't. While the magazines may in fact be used with other Savage products they are as I stated the same magazines as are used in the Axis. As you may or may not know this rifle is an exclusive Dick's product. Dick's has trigger locks on all their guns which makes it impossible to remove the bolt or inspect the trigger guard.

They'll remove the lock if you ask...

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Originally Posted by BoilerUP

They'll remove the lock if you ask...

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Not since the guy blew his head off in one of their stores last week.

Yes I am aware that it is a Dick's exclusive product. I would not purchase a rifle if I wasn't permitted to fully check it out. It's crazy that any retailer would expect a customer to purchase a firearm without being able to go through all its features.

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Originally Posted by 762X51

Not since the guy blew his head off in one of their stores last week.

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Well...last week is more recent than the last time I looked at a long gun at Dicks...

What aftermarket stocks are available for the 11vt? Is it based off another savage model?

762X51, have you taken the .223 VT to the range to try it out? The man who started this thread had some impressive groups with his the first time out, even with a 14-17 mph wind.

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Originally Posted by expfcwintergreen

762X51, have you taken the .223 VT to the range to try it out? The man who started this thread had some impressive groups with his the first time out, even with a 14-17 mph wind.

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No I haven't taken it to the range and those groups he posted are the reason I bought the rifle! It may indeed be incredibly accurate but if it won't feed all the rounds from the magazine I don't care how accurate it is. Is it too much to ask that a rifle be accurate AND work properly? Feeding and/or extraction problems seem to plague Savage rifles.

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Originally Posted by 762X51

No I haven't taken it to the range and those groups he posted are the reason I bought the rifle! It may indeed be incredibly accurate but if it won't feed all the rounds from the magazine I don't care how accurate it is. Is it too much to ask that a rifle be accurate AND work properly? Feeding and/or extraction problems seem to plague Savage rifles.

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No excuses for the way you got the rifle or your past experiences...but are you going to return the rifle to Dicks or send it back to Savage?

762x51,

How many cartridges does the magazine hold? If four, just consider it a three shot magazine with one in the chamber. If you are a target shooter, it is better to shoot slow anyway to let the barrel cool down. If you are a hunter, your first shot will almost always be your best and hopefully it won't take more than two. If you are hunting dangerous animals, a bolt action .223 or .308 probably isn't a good choice anyway.

I'm just a target shooter, so I would be fine if it were a single shot as long as it is accurate.

i hope you find a solution that will let you be happy with your gun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 762X51

I've been looking for a .223 varmint rifle and I've been considering something in the model 12 line up but when I saw this target and the price I hot-footed it down to the local Dick's. As my good fortune would have it they had an 11VT in 223. Cursory examination said it was just your basic Savage, detachable magazine action. WRONG!!! When I got it home and started taking it apart to clean it I discovered where the cost cutting was made. First, the bottom "metal" isn't metal! It's plastic. It looks EXACTLY like my model 10 PC bottom metal but alas it's just plastic as is the trigger guard. Secondly the magazine set up LOOKS like Savage's normal detachable magazine set up but it's not...it uses Axis magazines! And the icing on the cake is that my new rifle, in typical Savage fashion, will not feed the last round out of the magazine unless I put upward pressure on the rear of the magazine. So far Savage is 1 for 4 with me; first model 10 Precision Carbine wouldn't eject properly, model 16 223 wouldn't feed but first 2 rounds from the magazine, latest model 10 5R Precision Carbine is way less than accurate but happily my stainless 223 Axis is superbly accurate! Anybody want to buy a new, unfired 11VT? $500 and it's yours.

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Not sure why you emphasize "metal" is it listed somewhere that its metal??? Most gun manufacturers are now using poly and plastic (ruger, savage, remington etc.) while you may think its cheap its been proven to stand the test of time and bring weight down on the rifle. On the magazine issue savage uses this same setups on other rifles other than the axis, some of their higher end models also. It sounds like you have a defective magazine as mine cycles perfectly with no issues time and time again. When buying a mass produced "value" rifle you cannot expect perfection. You already know savage will take care of the issue and it very well could've happened with a $2000 rifle.

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Originally Posted by BoilerUP

No excuses for the way you got the rifle or your past experiences...but are you going to return the rifle to Dicks or send it back to Savage?

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Neither. I swapped the magazine from my 223 Axis and the one from the model 11 and it now functions properly. The Axis will feed flawlessly from either mag but the model 11 only likes one. Apparently the small manufacturing tolerances that vary from part to part are enough to keep one magazine from working in the model 11. I hate to think that a variance of just a few thousandths is all it takes to keep the mag from working and I hope the functioning magazine continues to work. Also for what it's worth I took the bottom metal from my model 10 Precision Carbine and it will replace the plastic bottom "metal" on the model 11 and allow you to use the detachable magazines with the metal base and metal front catch. Depending on how the rifle performs I may order the real bottom metal and mag.

Very good to know! How much would it be to change the bottom to metal and buy the matching magazine? Are you thinking about keeping the rifle now!

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Originally Posted by Wtlj

Not sure why you emphasize "metal" is it listed somewhere that its metal??? Most gun manufacturers are now using poly and plastic (ruger, savage, remington etc.) while you may think its cheap its been proven to stand the test of time and bring weight down on the rifle. On the magazine issue savage uses this same setups on other rifles other than the axis, some of their higher end models also. It sounds like you have a defective magazine as mine cycles perfectly with no issues time and time again. When buying a mass produced "value" rifle you cannot expect perfection. You already know savage will take care of the issue and it very well could've happened with a $2000 rifle.

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The reason I emphasized "metal" in the term bottom metal is because that is the term commonly used when describing the magazine frame/floor plate and trigger guard of a rifle and the bottom "metal" just happens to be plastic on the model 11. I'm well aware that many makers use polymers for certain parts and they are indeed sometimes superior to their metal counterparts (see Ruger's abuse of their polymer mag for their American rifle on their website) The point I was making was that the plastic bottom "metal" on the model 11 looks EXACTLY like the metallic bottom metal found on say the model 10 Precision Carbine and others may want to know that it does in fact differ from what it appears to be. As far as Savage taking care of the issue we all know they have excellent customer service, I just wish that they had better quality control to get the rifle out right the first time.

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Originally Posted by Wtlj

Very good to know! How much would it be to change the bottom to metal and buy the matching magazine? Are you thinking about keeping the rifle now!

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It all depends on how it shoots.

BoilerUP wrote:

"1:9 will stabilize a tangent ogive match bullet in the 75-77gr range (Hornady 75gr HPBT, Sierra 77gr SMK, Nosler 77gr CC) but will be exceedingly marginal if not outright unusable for a VLD-style secant ogive bullet in the same weight range (75gr A-Max, Berger VLD)."
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I just looked up secant ogive and tangent ogive here:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/balli...ogive-bullets/

Reading the description made my head hurt. I was an English major.

it's a good thing the world wasn't waiting on me to build the first rifle (or outhouse).

Impressive group! Looked at one of these today, for $500 I may give it a shot.

I bought the Model 11 VT in .223 Remington today after I found some Hornady 75gr BTHP at a local store. Mine feeds and ejects fine.

I still have to buy a scope for a .308 and join a local gun club before I get to do any shooting.

Talked with a Sierra tech a while back about the 77gr in a 1-9 Savage. He said to be sure and shoot factory or hand loads at 300 yards +. If it is good at that distance then he said that particular barrel was probably good to go with the 77.