I saw a nice 11 xp package for cheap today--but the stock looks like the same tupperware as the Axis--is this the case? Even so--the action and trigger look very sweet and the aftermarket availability of stocks may still make it a great deal.
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I saw a nice 11 xp package for cheap today--but the stock looks like the same tupperware as the Axis--is this the case? Even so--the action and trigger look very sweet and the aftermarket availability of stocks may still make it a great deal.
How much?
around $400.00--but the stock looks like the same tupperware as the Axis has.
surely somebody must know?? I only ask cause I don't.
I think the model 11 and 10 are the same short actions. The model 111 and 110 are long actions. The axis/edge are in the middle. The recoil lugs and the screw patterns are not the same.
RSG
No. The Model 11 does not have the same stock as the Axis. They are not interchangable.
I apologize--I wasn't clearer with my question. I know the action, screws, lugs etc are different--I wasn't contemplating using the stuff off the 11 for interchangeable work with the Axis. My question is simply is the stock on the 11 made of the same flexible plastic as the Axis stock is. My impression is that it is, in which case I'm not sure I would want to buy it--despite the very nice action and accutrigger. I simply don't understand why Savage is killing the inherent accuracy of these things with flimsy stocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomae
A ha! I misinterpreted your question. Thanks for the clarification and for not flaming me. ;)
Ok. I own and have used both stocks about which you are inquiring. I can not say for sure if they are the same plastic.
What follows is personal opinion based on my experience. Your experience may be different.
It appears to me that the Savage/Stevens stocks have somewhat less flex than the Axis stock. Whether or not the actual plastic is different or this is a result of the design and construction, I don't know. In my experience, the unmodified Axis stock flexes more in the forearm and wrist than the Savage/Stevens stocks.
If you want a rifle for walking around/hunting, as long as you have cleared out the barrel channel sufficiently (if it is needed) I would suggest that the Savage/Stevens stocks are good enough (perhaps not the ideal stock, but you also won't get upset if the stock gets rubbed on a rocky outcropping and gets scratched).
Many people have reported on this forum and elsewhere that they have had hunting and paper success with unmodified Axis stocks, I, however chose to reinforce the forearm and the wrist/grip area. I can tell the difference when I shoulder the rifle.
I hope this helps.
I was very impressed with the 11 I looked at--the whole receiver/action, trigger etc looked fantastic. But when I did my "float test"--gripping the forearm and barrel and applying pressure--the stock flexed very easily and contacted the barrel--just as easily as the Axis stock does. It seems everyone is making a budget rifle with a synthetic stock these days--but I still haven't seen one from another manufacturer that flexes quite as much as Savage's. The trouble is, once I toss in the price of a replacement stock you're getting into quality Howa/Weatherby territory--totally stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomae
Not to be argumentative here (use or don't use; like or don't like whatever stock you want to...I don't really care :distracted:), but I have two rhetorical questions to ask you:Quote:
Originally Posted by thermaler
A) How will you actually be using the rifle?
and
B) Is your "float test" a valid test?
Here's why I ask.
The human hand has a very strong grip strength. If you can hang from a bar from with one hand, the force of your grip in that hand is counteracting your entire body weight. I am not saying that you were squeezing that hard, but your hand can easily exert more force than your rifle and stock are likely to experience in the field.
If you will be shooting off a bag or with a bipod, will the weight of the rifle cause the stock to contact the barrel?
If you will be out in the field shooting from an offhand, sitting, kneeling, braced (or whatever...take your pick) position, will the barrel and stock actually touch?
I am not saying it will or it won't...but isn't that what you actually need to determine?
I can squeeze rather hard with my hand. I can easily squeeze hard enough to make my wood stock flex enough to touch the normally free-floated barrel (I just got up from the computer and tried it. It wasn't that hard, and I am no bodybuilder/muscleman). However that barrel never touches the stock when I shoot off of bags, use a bipod or shoot offhand. (Granted, if I had a 17 pound benchrest rifle with the huge 3" wide forearm that was really far away from the barrel, I probably could not force the stock and barrel together...but I'm talking a more traditional wood (not laminate) hunting stock on my rifle.)
If you have a reasonable amount of clearance between your barrel and the stock, the forearm can flex some, but perhaps will not contact the barrel under normal circumstances.
In a perfect world, a stock might have zero flex, but in the real world, some flex, if not excessive (and only you can determine the definition of "excessive" for you and your rifle) might be acceptable.
By the way, please don't take my post to mean that I am disagreeing that the stock you held was too flexible. I was not there and have no way of knowing one way or another. And also, the acceptability (or non-acceptability) of any stock is 100% your call and you can and should decide for yourself. I only ask that you think about your testing method and whether or not it is a valid test for your purposes.
I hope this makes sense. I am sure there are those who have differing opinions.
No--my float test was probably not a valid test--but I did set the rifle on a sharp edge trying to simulate weighting the swivel where a bipod would attach--and yes, I believe the stock would flex enough loaded that way to touch the barrel--but maybe grinding down the forearm some would take that possibility out. I think most of the rest of the synthetic stock crowd I looked out had either a harder plastic or some carbon mixed in. The rest of the rifle looks awesome--I probably would have bought it in a heartbeat if it hadn't been for my reservations about the stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomae
Agreed. Opening up the forearm might solve your problem, but without trying, I can't say. That has to be your call.Quote:
Originally Posted by thermaler
I have not priced the Howa/Weatherby rifles, but with the Savages you get the advantages of the ability to switch calibers, barrels, etc...a lot more easily than with most other brands.Quote:
Originally Posted by thermaler
Boyds has some nice wood or wood laminate stocks at very reasonable prices. They have reinforcing cross pins already installed and are generally good quality. Depending on your druthers, you might want to install a better recoil pad on them (About $35) . A point against them if you want a DBM is that they are not inletted for that. I understand that SSS will do that for around $50.00.
...so, you are talking about a reasonable expense for an aftermarket stock. You could also get a used accustock, and then purchase an accustock recoil lug from Midwayusa or a similar place and have a perfectly acceptable hunting stock.
I would still go with the Savage due to the ability to tinker and change calibers. I would likely forego the XP package as the scope is not worth much at all. A Stevens 200 or used Savage might be less expensive, and if you could find a used Savage with a wood stock, then you have your Savage and a reasonably stiff stock all in one.
Let us know what you decide. Much of the fun is suffering through the plethora of decision choices!
I just rebuilt 2 Axis rifles--one 270 and one 308--and need to get down to some serious trigger time behind both of them to really dial them in, so my next rifle may have to wait a while--especially since I'm finally thinking of starting to reload. appreciate your advice though.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomae
The stock on the Savage model 11 XP Hunter is your basic Savage tupperware stock with a DBM cutout instead of a blind magazine found on the buget Savage 10/110 models. The Savage 11/111 XP Hunter is a non-accurtrigger and the XP trophy hunter has the Accutrigger. They use the standard Savage 11/111 action with side bolt release and have the newer firing pin with cocking indicator that extends through rear bolt nut. The only thing they have in common with the Axis is that they use the same plastic DBM magazine assembly and bottom cap. Otherwize, they are a cost effective way to get a Savage action for a build.
The 11/111XP does NOT have the same stock as the non-XP versions. Tho whole point of going with an 11 is to get that Accustock. IMHO, the 11XP is nothing more than an Axis with the Savage 10 action - it isn't worth the extra cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdown