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So I am going to do some bullet casting and I am wondering what needs to be added to wheel weights to make them better for bullets. I will be using it in my .45acp, .454 Casull and a .500 S&W. I am pretty sure that for the .45 ACP it would be fine as is due to the low velocity but the larger faster stuff might need to be a little harder. I would consider some rifle calibers as well once I figure it all out with the slower pistols.
Tin is what you need sorry don't know how much, your better off using Linotype it expands when it cools BUT also is getting harder to find
Modern wheel weghts (the ones that stay shiney) are really not good for high quality or high pressure/high velocity bullets. They are ok for 750-850 FPS plinking loads. Have too much zinc and calcium in them - you can tell if the bullets you make turn powdery white after a few months.
Old wheel weights (the ones that just turn dark like real lead over time) work fine for reasonable loads - need to add some tin (you can get either tin for casting or figure how much is in plumbers lead) and make them around 25-1 or so wheel weight to tin.
If you want to make bullets for top notch accuracy or high velocity/high pressure loads (like full house gas checked loads for your 454 and 500 S&W) you should puchase some known quality and hardness lead, find some linotype (not going to happen any more unless you get crazy lucky) or find some old lead pipe, flashing etc. check it for hardness and add tin from there.
IF you do try the modern wheel weights - you need to flux the heck out of it to get as much of the trash, calcium, etc. out of it and it will still give you wrinkled and round edged bullets much of the time. Like I said - fine for plinking at low velocity but...
Oh and stay away from stick on wheel weights - not much lead in them!
Great info, thanks. Kind of funny how things work. I did a bunch of work in a hospital a few years back and we had to tear down an old X-ray room. Behind the sheet rock was a solid 1/8" sheet of lead around all the walls and ceiling. We just threw it out. It was tons of the stuff and I never thought about it at the time.
And everything over the .45 ACP will use gas checks.
I had a student job at the Vet School when I was in college. We moved into a new lab that had been used for xray/radioactive research and there were a bunch of pure lead (you can dent/scratch pure lead with a thumbnail) bricks in the corner. I was already in to muzzle loading and casting for my pistols so I took home about 300 pounds!
Getting VERY hard to find pure lead now (which you need for things like minie balls). Had to buy some recently and it hurt. At $1.10 a pound, 58 cal minie balls get expensive pretty quick!
The stick on WW's should be pure lead.
What you need to do is look at each WW. If you see a stamping with Zn on it it is a zinc one. Sort it out and never use it in your lead. There are also steel WW's that need to be sorted out. The steel ones should be marked Fe. One thing you need to do is make sure the temp never goes over 650*. Zn melts at around 780* so they should float on top like the clips. This is very important, Zn will ruin your lead.
One other way to check for the Zn is to use a pair of side cutters. The Zn will be very hard and should not crush or cut. Dropping them on a concrete floor is another way to check them. Regular WW's wil have a thud sound. Zn will ring.
Get a casting thermometer. Run your melt at 650* and everything will be OK.
Go over to the " Cast Boolits " forum and find out more. Everything you ever wanted to know about lead bullets over there.
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Wheels weights are perhaps the most used source of bullet casting metal.
Adding some tin up to 2% to 4% total will help the casting properties.
I use virgin certified material straight from the foundries myself for all my bullets.
Beyond 1600 fps velocity, gas checks can help.
Cast and custom swaged bullets have enough variables to keep you entertained for quite a while.
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Must vary by market - can't get stick on wheel weights I find to melt at reasonable temps!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomme boy
Must vary by market - can't get stick on wheel weights I find to melt at reasonable temps!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in NC
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I agree. I scraped them off with the clips.
You guys are throwing away good lead. Do a little more checking if you don't believe it.
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Once upon a time...
There was a fellow who determined that his cheapest source of good metal was buying unlubed commercially-cast bullets, melting them, and then casting that alloy metal in his desired molds.
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From what I understand the weights are either lead, zinc or steel, no weights that are zinc mixed with lead. Now the question is, where do you get the "tin" to add to the lead to make it correct. I have some pure lead here. It is a roll of lead that would be used in between stained glass. I only have about 50 pounds of it though.
Plumbers lead (bar solder) is know lead/tin mix (different forumulas but always stamped). Or you can buy pure tin bars from Midway (or other sources do a search).
As far as weights being pure lead or pure zinc etc. - not my experience at all but apparently others know better than me. NEVER found a wheel weight that was even CLOSE to pure lead (A pure lead bullet or weight will dent/deform when you drop it from waist height, you can easily dent it with a thumb nail, etc.).
But again, others know better I am sure.
You can get everything you need here. http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm
One other way to get tin is to find stuff made out of Pewter. We always look for it when we go to garage sales. Have also found it at the thrift stores. The candle holders that are made out of it are kinda of a false weight. They usally fill the base with clay.
Lead free solder. Very $$$$
Tin mainly helps on the fillout of the bullet. It does help to harden it too. But over about 2%, you are wasting $.
I have used magnum lead shot also. I have close to 300lbs of right now. I bought this years ago when it was $13.95/ 25lb bag. Price it now!
My FIL has close to 2500lbs of Lino so I don't need to look for stuff to harden my lead. He does not cast anymore but will not sell any of it. I can have what I need, but that is it. Another friend does contract work for the phone company and gives me all the lead wire phone cable I want. This is PURE lead. I have close to 800 lbs of this melted down right now.
WW's is what I can not find anymore. They are a thing of the past. So start finding a replacement. That is why I am hording everything lead related right now.
I worded that incorrectly. When I spoke to the two local tires retailers, I was told that the weights are either lead, steel or zinc. I know that the lead weights are not 100% lead and already have tin in them to make them harder but I was told that the lead weights didn't have any zinc in them. Thanks for the source to look for tin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in NC
If you have to buy metal, take a look at rotometals.com
You should also Google "castboolits", a forum with more information than you'll believe.
One of the local tire places will sell me lead wheel weights for $20 per 5 gallon pail. They have about 15 pails sitting there right now. I may very well end up paying for it at some point but as long as I keep getting a half a pail here and a half a pail there for nothing I will just keep on going. My other thing is, only loading for 4 pistol calibers and limited time to shoot, how much lead do I really need?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomme boy
"How much lead do I really need?"
Depends on your age - getting harder to find. I suspect that is how they will finally squash shooting sports (not by taking away the right to own guns but by deciding that lead, primers, etc. are too dangerous for us to own and handle).
If you are a young man and like shooting - lay in a stock. 1,000 pounds of lead doesn't take up much room!
Very good point. Even if I don't use it, scrap lead is selling for about 50 cents a pound here so I won't lose any money on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in NC
WW's are a thing of the past. If you can get them, do it. Most states are banning them right now. They will have to use the new zinkers or the steel ones. Here in the next few years when most of them are gone, everyone is going to say " remember when.........." just like we say "remember when gas was $1.00/gal"
I stopped casting lead bullets in 1982 after the American Rifleman Magazine wrote an article comparing the lead content in bullet casters blood and plumbers blood. What made me stop casting with wheel weights was simple, bullet casters had very high levels of heavy metals in their blood from casting with wheel weights. Wheel weights are made from scrap metals that contain toxic materials and heavy metals and the EPA has plans to ban them and Europe has already banned them.
I wasn't worried about casting bullets that much for myself but at the time I had two young boys under the age of three and didn't want to expose them to toxic materials. The American Rifle magazine article said to make sure if casting inside that a exhaust fan was used and to keep young children away from the area where the casting was done.
Just think about this, Government deregulation means company profits come before health and safety.
And service stations and tire centers buy wheel weights from the cheapest bidders.
Wheel weights are made from scrap metal that contain:
Arsenic
Beryllium
Cadmium
Hexavalent Chromium
Mercury
Vanadium
Thallium
Sloppy technique and careless behavior have nothing to do with wheel weights, pure lead, or other heavy metals. Wheel weights aren't the culprit (no more dangerous than pure lead or pure antimony or pure silver or pure mercury or pure chromium or...) - poor ventilation, failure to wear gloves, lack of clean up etc. is the issue.
Breathing fumes or ingesting particles of heavy metals is bad news - doesn't make a difference which metal it is really, all of them will kill you. Up to you to be careful.
Are you arguing for more government regulation? If the government made sure wheel weights were 100% lead they would still be deadly if you were sloppy or careless.
Eric in NC
95% of BLO - boiled linseed oil made in the U.S. is toxic and yet across the border in Canada it is not.
Here in the U.S. we used trichloroethylene in vapor degreasers and again it was banned in Canada and Europe as a carcinogenic agent.
As a inspector at a government overhaul depot we had to send machine shop lathes and milling machines to a toxic waste dump because they were contaminated with PCBs. PCB put in lubricating oil to prevent paying for its disposal by the companies that made it.
What I stated in my earlier posting has nothing to do with "sloppy technique and careless behavior" it deals with companies dumping toxic materials in their products to avoid paying to dispose of them properly.
Government deregulation means money paid under the table to politicians to ensure more and higher profits for the people at the top of the food chain.
Real BLO is raw linseed oil boiled in a enclosed container which causes the linseed oil to form long molecular chains (plasticizing) and this boiled linseed oil could be applied bare handed. Todays U.S. made BLO is raw linseed oil with resins added to thicken and as bonding agent and drying agents which are toxic.
Below MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) information for American made BLO and its warnings and contents.
Skin Protection: Prevent skin contact. Wear chemical-resistant flexible-type gloves(neoprene, PVC, butyl, nitrile or similar). Depending on conditions of use additional protective equipment may be necessary such as face-shield, apron or coveralls.
============= Composition/Information on Ingredients=============
Ingred Name:COBALT NEODECANOATE
CAS:27253-31-2
< Wt:.05
OSHA PEL:0.05 MG/M3
Ingred Name:COBALT 2-ETHYLHEXANOATE
CAS:136-52-7
< Wt:.05
ACGIH TLV:0.05 MG/M3
Ingred Name:MINERAL SPIRITS
CAS:8052-41-3
RTECS #:WJ8925000
< Wt:.05
OSHA PEL:2100 PPM
ACGIH TLV:525 MG/M3;100 PPM
Ingred Name DIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOMETHYL ETHER
CAS:111-77-3
RTECS #:KL6125000
< Wt:.05
Ingred Name:MANGANESE NEODEOENOATE
CAS:27253-32-3
< Wt:.01
OSHA PEL:5 MG/M3
ACGIH TLV:5 MG/M3
Ingred Name:MANGANESE 2-ETHYLHEXANOATE
CAS:15956-58-8
< Wt:.01
ACGIH TLV:5 MG/M3
Eric in NC, as an Inspector I spent the last 15 years of my working career inspecting the materials our goverment purchased and resurching these products for safety. When home heating oil has to sent to a test lab to check for toxic chemicals to see if these companies are dumping toxic waste materials, then it has nothing to do with "sloppy technique and careless behavior" it called "dumping".
Just saying that "pure" lead is no less toxic than lead contaminated (or mixed with) antimony, aresenic, etc. Just like "pure" PCBs are no less toxic than PCBs contaminated with dioxin or whatever. All of it will kill you dead as a hammer if you don't use proper equipment and techniques when dealing with it.
I like Tung oil better than BLO anyway!
Wile I am casting I will probably have a beer in my hand, a cigarette in my mouth and after I am done I will probably use the turkey fryer to make some deep fried bacon and french fries.
Be sure to have neighborhood kids over to help and let them keep any reject bullets!!! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Samdweezel05
Need any help? I'll bring beer. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Samdweezel05
Steve
The neighborhood kids are the ones that do the casting. I don't go near that stuff,I hear it's bad for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in NC
I'm 63 and grew up in a family plumbing Bus. started fooling around with the lead pot when I was 8 most likely leaded several thousand joints and burn out the same casted a ton of bullets and use to carry lead pellets in my mouth when bird hunting sparrows as a kid my blood level for lead is normal as of 2/2011.
So at this point i'm not really concerned about it.
Back to the question at hand I use straight clip on WW which have a BHN of 12 if I want them harder I water quench them which takes them to BHN 18.
I literally have at least a ton of scrap lead and 5lb-25lb bricks of pure lead and at least 100 lb of 50/50 solder and that does not count what is already casted.