The 110 Hog Hunter LA or SA?

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06-19-2019, 03:00 AM
wingspar

The 110 Hog Hunter LA or SA?

A few years ago I bought a Hog Hunter in .308. It has an internal magazine. One of the first things I did with it was put a nice after market stock on it. Now, I want another Hog Hunter in .223 and the first thing I want to do with it is put a nice after market stock on it, however, the Bell and Carlson site makes a distinction of long action or short action with detachable magazine. The Savage site says the Hog Hunter now comes with a detachable magazine, but says Nothing as to whether the Hog Hunter is a long action or short action.

So, my questions. Do all Hog Hunters now come with a detachable magazine?

Is the Hog Hunter in .223 a short action or long action?

This is the stock I’m looking at.
06-19-2019, 04:03 AM
Dave Hoback

It is a Short Action. Savage made 223 rifles in Long action many moons ago, and I believe they had a different bolt that was wanted...I remember reading. You can measure this yourself. Measure distance between the action screws. http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...Action-Lengths

And yes, they are detachable mags.
06-19-2019, 06:47 AM
CFJunkie

2 Attachment(s)

Dave is absolutely right, it is a short action actually a standard short action.
The .223 cartridge is too short for a reliable feed from a standard short action so Savage puts a block in the back of the magazine. The lower mag is the .223 and the one in the back is a standard short action mag.

Attachment 6169

They also put a flange on the standard Savage short action bolt to shorten the bolt throw.

Attachment 6170
06-19-2019, 11:02 AM
Dave Hoback

Good addition CFJunkie, as it’s actually the magazine which dictates the cartridge feeding correctly.
06-19-2019, 02:35 PM
CFJunkie

You're right, Dave.

Even the .223 AICS short action mags are also set up to move the .223 cartridge forward in the mag well so the .223 will feed correctly, even though the external overall dimensions of the mag is the same as the standard AICS short action mag used for a .308.
But in the case of the AICS mags, the spacer isn't as obvious because the upper cover on the mag over the follower is different than a standard short action mag for other calibers.

My CZ 527 .223 bolt action has a specially sized magazine that is far smaller, both thinner and shorter, than a Savage .223 magazine.
Savage kept the costs down by adapting a standard short action mag and bolt.
The Savage bolt's overall size is the same for the .223 and .308 but, obviously, the bolt face is different because it has to fit the smaller diameter .223 case and the .223 bolt has that extra flange on the bolt that keeps the bolt from going all the way back so the bolt face will only get far enough past the rear head stamp when the bolt is all the way back to pick up the next round.

On the 12 FV .223 with a hidden magazine, that flange keeps the bolt forward so it won't open past the front edge of the spacer in the magazine so the effective length of the standard ejection port is reduced, even though the port is the same size on both the .223 and my .308s and 6.5mm Creedmoor short actions.
Of course that makes it more difficult to load the hidden magazine on the 12 FV.
I have much more difficulty loading the .223 rounds in my 12 FV .223 than I have loading the larger 6.5mm Creedmoor rounds in my 12 FV 6.5mm Creedmoor. That extra 1/2 inch or so in the flange that keeps the bolt from going back too far on the .223 cases makes a big difference in the available space to get fingers into the standard size ejection port to load.
06-20-2019, 03:03 AM
wingspar

Thanks. Good info. Looks like I need to look at this stock in Tan w/ Black Spyderweb. What is the difference between a Bottom Bolt Release and a Top Bolt Release?

When did they start making the Hog Hunter with detachable magazines?
06-20-2019, 03:35 AM
Dave Hoback

The difference is just that....one has the bolt release on top, on the right side of the action. While the other has the it on the bottom in front of the trigger guard. https://i.imgur.com/V2nDIal.jpg

I could be mistaken, but it appears the Hog Hunter was given a detachable magazine from its release in 2012.
06-20-2019, 03:03 PM
wingspar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

The difference is just that....one has the bolt release on top, on the right side of the action. While the other has the it on the bottom in front of the trigger guard.

I could be mistaken, but it appears the Hog Hunter was given a detachable magazine from its release in 2012.

Thanks. What rifles have a bottom bolt release? Are all Hog Hunters upper bolt release? There is zero info on any of my questions on the Savage site.

I bought my Hog Hunter with upper bolt release in .308 in 2015 and it does not have a removable magazine.
06-20-2019, 03:21 PM
Dave Hoback

Not sure if it ever used the bottom release. I would think no, but don’t quote me on that one.

Im sorry, I need to edit. It never used a detachable mag. Only internal. But it’s easily converted with a bottom metal.
06-20-2019, 07:34 PM
Beowoulf2000

Savage's ever-changing marketing language further confuses their ever-changing design

The Model 11 and 111 Hog Hunter was introduced in 2012. It came in both long action (338 WM) and short (223, 308). It had a threaded "medium" contour 20" barrel, open sights. It followed the older naming convention of three digit model numbers for long action and two for short. It had the standard (non-Accustock) Savage plastic stock in OD green and top bolt release.
In 2015 Savage dropped the long action Hog Hunter Model 111.
In 2018, Savage changed the model numbering convention and stock on the models it used to market as "Specialty Series" rifles (Bear Hunter, Hog Hunter, Scout, etc). These are now marketed as the 110 series; All other 110-style series retain the previous convention: Varmint, Hunter, Long Range, etc). Whether a model in the new series is a short action or long is determined by the cartridge it is chambered for. All stocks in this new series sport a plastic Monte Carlo-ish butt with palm swells on the pistol grip and inserts to adjust LOP. Some of the new models are fitted with the Accustock + Accufit stock features (aluminum block bedding and adjustable comb). The Hog Hunter has neither (but does have the LOP inserts). All models with the new stock design have a detachable magazine. Those with the standard Savage magazine have a bottom bolt release (the Hog Hunter is one). Those with an AICS-style magazine have a top bolt release.
06-20-2019, 09:04 PM
CFJunkie

Savage has so many variations that I can't predict which models have which bolt release.

The bottom bolt release comes with the Accu-stock models.
The Accu-stock has an aluminum base and aluminum bedding that makes the stock much more rigid.
I find the bottom bolt release a bit of a PITA at times, especially when you want to remove the action, because the rear action bolt is hidden under the sliding bolt release.
But the Accu-stock provides desired rigidity and that makes it worthwhile.

I have several Accu-stock Savages.
I have a Model 10 FCP-K 308 with an Accu-stock and bottom bolt release with a standard Savage detachable mag with the mag release as part of the bottom metal.
I also have a Model 11 VT .22-250 with an Accu-stock and a bottom bolt release with the cheaper Savage detachable mag with the mag release on the mag itself.
That mag is a cheaper version that I don't like and it makes finding a replacement stock a bit of a problem.

My first Savage, a 2008 or 2009 vintage model 10 FP in .308, was purchased before the Accu-stock was readily available and it came with a synthetic stock with plastic bedding, a hidden mag and a top bolt release.
That stock flexed a lot and after I shot over 6,500 rounds and replaced the barrel. About the same time, I decided that it was time to replace the flexible stock with a Bell and Carlson adjustable stock that had an aluminum rail and aluminum pillars. The more rigid frame turned a good shooter into a great shooter.

I also have a model 12 LRP in 6.5mm Creedmoor that came with a HS-Precision stock with an aluminum frame and pillars that is my most accurate Savage and it came with standard Savage mag and a top bolt release.
06-20-2019, 10:51 PM
J.Baker

This is one area where Savage has really hurt themselves, both with direct customers by causing unnecessary confusion and with aftermarket supplies. With the market slowing down as it has it's a perfect time for Savage to "get back to the basics" and standardize their product line across the board.

Few people like the bottom bolt release and it uses more parts than the old top bolt release. That being the case Savage would be wise to just eliminate the bottom bolt release and go back to making everything with a top release. Fewer parts to manufacturer/inventory and much less confusion for everybody.

The same could be said for the two different magazine systems they use (Axis and what I refer to as the premium with the metal bottom surround). With their top tier models mostly using AICS bottom metal now, and the improved retention system for the Axis mag's, it's would be an ideal time to phase out the premium bottom metal/magazine system. I know - we all prefer the premium over the Axis style, but from a manufacturer's point-of-view that's the least used option at this point and it would add consistency and uniformity across more of the model line.

Both of these changes would go a long way towards garnering more interest in offering products for Savage rifles by the aftermarket as it would greatly reduce the number of variations they would have to contend with when developing new products for Savage rifles.
06-21-2019, 02:55 PM
Beowoulf2000

Extracting the information that answers the OP’s specific questions:
The Hog Hunter is currently a short-action only, bottom bolt release, DBM and has been since 2018.
2015-2017 it was a short-action only, top bolt release, blind magazine.
2012-2014 it was offered in both short and long actions, top bolt release, blind magazine.
06-29-2019, 02:06 PM
wingspar

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowoulf2000

Extracting the information that answers the OP’s specific questions:
The Hog Hunter is currently a short-action only, bottom bolt release, DBM and has been since 2018.
2015-2017 it was a short-action only, top bolt release, blind magazine.
2012-2014 it was offered in both short and long actions, top bolt release, blind magazine.

That’s the kind of short and sweet answer I was looking for and agrees from the answers to questions directly from Savage. I really wanted to know if the stock I want to put on it will work with the current Hog Hunter models and it will. The day before I was going to order the rifle, the arthritis in my right shoulder flared up like it Never has before, so it has me wondering if I should be purchasing this rifle, or start selling most of my rifles. Getting old sucks sometimes.
08-11-2021, 10:43 AM
lewiton

I'm interested in this rifle as well, just looking for a gun to hunt hogs. So far I'm choosing between a 110 and a 111. Since I' m a freshman hunter, I have a hard time finding my way around a variety of guns. I used to be just interested in shooting a non-living target, but that gets boring quickly. Now, I want to take part in a few more hunts. I also had a great help from my boar hunting experience at https://www.westgateresorts.com/blog...-boar-florida/, I was able to hunt with different types of guns there. In addition to boar, I also shot an alligator there, also was an exciting experience.
08-11-2021, 10:56 AM
wbm

Quote:

That being the case Savage would be wise to just eliminate the bottom bolt release and go back to making everything with a top release.

+1.
08-15-2021, 07:45 AM
GaCop

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Baker

This is one area where Savage has really hurt themselves, both with direct customers by causing unnecessary confusion and with aftermarket supplies. With the market slowing down as it has it's a perfect time for Savage to "get back to the basics" and standardize their product line across the board.

Few people like the bottom bolt release and it uses more parts than the old top bolt release. That being the case Savage would be wise to just eliminate the bottom bolt release and go back to making everything with a top release. Fewer parts to manufacturer/inventory and much less confusion for everybody.

The same could be said for the two different magazine systems they use (Axis and what I refer to as the premium with the metal bottom surround). With their top tier models mostly using AICS bottom metal now, and the improved retention system for the Axis mag's, it's would be an ideal time to phase out the premium bottom metal/magazine system. I know - we all prefer the premium over the Axis style, but from a manufacturer's point-of-view that's the least used option at this point and it would add consistency and uniformity across more of the model line.

Both of these changes would go a long way towards garnering more interest in offering products for Savage rifles by the aftermarket as it would greatly reduce the number of variations they would have to contend with when developing new products for Savage rifles.

Well said! :thumb::thumb: