An Observation AND Question....

Hello All,

Long time member here... I've been off pursuing other shooting sports- first F Class 600/ 1000 yd, then Shooting Steel at different places around NC/ SC out to 1680 yd.... best results under 1200 yd w/ 260 Rem Sav. 12 LRP/ AR10 Gas gun in 6.5 CM, 22" BA heavy bbl, tricked out, etc. and other stuff- Mil Surp, FAL's , etc....... So many guns, so little time ...

Anyways, I've built about a dozen Savages over the years- 223AI, 260 AI, 6mmbr, 250 savage. 308, .243, 6mmbrx etc. all either headspaced with fired brass/ scotch tape or with gages - whatever it took... lol so I'd say I've truly enjoyed playing with, building our beloved flexible, perfect for the tinker's amongst us Savages, etc. over the years with my Dad.

My 6mmbrx on a Fred's Trued Polished Sav. SS action, EVO trigger, PTG oversized fluted bolt, bushed firing pin, headspaced w no nut/ assembled by Mike Davis- BR Builder here in NC- has allowed me to win at least individual relays just goofin aroung up at Camp Butner/ F class in the past with an under $2K F class rig (no glass figured in that) vs $5K and above custom rigs with my crappy, sorted Horn 105 A max's back in the day.

I recently got back on this site after an approx 5-8 yr or so absence due to all the above and noticed its Really cut back- posts, classified's, possible interest in this really fun platform that "we can build it if we imagine it".

My Dad and I have talked as he's stayed active on here but neither of us understand what's happened? Compared to 5-8-10 yr ago, it seems interest has really dropped off, less custom, Ackleys, fun builds, less in the Classifieds, etc. where did everyone go?

I am wondering if its: More custom, new calibers in factory rifles like 6.5 PRC, .224 Val, 6.8 Western, 280 AI factory rifles, Possibly lack of ammo and reloading supplies due to Covid ... as a seperate topic and the universal catch all for everything this past 2 yr... lol , Or Savage Axis's cheaper and in more calibers, I don't know.

Can anyone help us understand what happened to our passion, challenge, pursuit of "building stuff" as many of us "old timer's " have over the past few yr??? Written with all due respect to our Savages!

Just curious, thoughts... ??

I have seen in other forums a similar happing. And I was talking with a friend and mod on that site. He said it was lower activity because of a shift to the Book of Face. Long time members still use that site but newer members went to the app they use the most. But remember the book of face is not 2nd amendment friendly. That is my opinion.

Not all of us have dropped off!

Probably FB and reddit.


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I have seen the same thing across other forums. Just some people prefer the FB platform for stuff like this. And the folks that 'grow up' with things like twitter and FB consider forums dull and not very entertaining because they don't 'move' fast enough.

It is kinda like the move from "message boards" to forums many years ago. And the move from paper magazines to electronic versions, and even those are in a sharp decline.

I’m not even ON the facePage, tweeters, InstagramR, etc...none of ‘em! Those social media sights are the DEVIL!

I am old fashioned. I don't use social media except for forums like these. I don't like txting. If I could use smoke signals I wood. Or carrier pigeons but in East Texas they might be poached as dove. :redface-new:

Seems to me another factor is that the Savage 10/110 and fam were lower cost compared to Rem 700, Win 70, etc. now almost everyone makes a low cost bolt gun. Besides FB, there's several other sites and apps that the younger generation frequently use, and I don't think any of them are 2A friendly

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

I’m not even ON the facePage, tweeters, InstagramR, etc...none of ‘em! Those social media sights are the DEVIL!

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+1

No interest in that Social Media BS.

It has contributed more to current social problems than anything else - with the possible exception of the mainstream media.

They both thrive on conflict.

Like most things it is a convergence of events, not one or two big factors.

FB plays a part, it is the preferred medium for most people.

Part of it is the shift away from a generation(s) that would/could work on things themselves, take apart a rifle, install a barrel, headspace it etc. People have been sold on the idea that everything is a specialty that requires an expert with a degree to even begin to understand. Where I live if you sell a home that is missing a few cover plates on outlets etc the insurance companies require you to have a licensed electrician come install those plates. Plates- think about that for a second and how conditioned people are to believe it.

Part of it too is the availability of rifles in so many more calibers. 6.5 creed became popular, then people started necking it down to 6mm, now you can buy 6mm creed rifles and ammo off the shelf- there isn't so much of a need to make your own.

And finally accurate rifles have become cheap. You can go into any big name store and buy a Savage, Rem, Ruger or Mossberg and you'll prob get a rifle that shoots factory ammo at or close to MOA out of the box. That was unheard of not long ago but has become the norm, not the exception.

All of those factors turn into an ROI calc for your average joe who will probably see what his friends are posting about on FB, go buy something similar, be happy with how it shoots and not think any more about it.

I’d have more to input if I had a place to shoot regular.

I’ve never thought much of weird calibers.

Shot rifles long before archery. Which I love. But the last 15yrs archery has been my passion. I can shoot my bow 100yds in my yard. In town. Rifles on the other hand. No.

Since I learned to shoot, not really shooting but what those dang knobs on a rifle really did and how to use them my rifle interest has fallen back off.

Archery has taught me a lot of since and knowledge that I have taken into rifle shooting.

If I had a pile of time and money and 1000yds to mess around I would probably dive back into rifles deeper.

But back into what archery has taught me. If you can’t do it with the basics. Good solid basics your not going to do it with anything.
Ex..
.223-6.5creed-300wm you can’t do it. All the inbetween is cool but do they really preform different in real world shooting?
I’m talking crap.. and saying this because these are relatively available.

Same with the rifle.
My savage 500$ rifle competes with rifles 2-3 times more money. Same with my scope.

Lol same with my vehicle.

All in fun guys.

Gear is cool but is it functional?

O yea. I’ve been on rimfire central for 3yrs now digging in the worm hole.

Cheers


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Well how much longer will it be till there is no longer anyone left who even remembers any differences?
We all tend to live in our own little world, rarely venturing much beyond it.
But reality is that is no longer the world in which we actually live.
More and more we are becoming a keyboard society.
It is no longer necessary to actually shoot a rifle for example in order to form an opinion as to its performance level.
Just enter all the pertinent information and the computer will tell you all that.
Without ever leaving home in order to find out.
Is this the modern day plan for herding us all into the corral?

All of this makes sense.. Its kind of what I had thought. Im sure Im dating myself but I enjoy working on stuff w/ my hands, creating whatever I want to, fine tuning it, etc.

Seems there's still some of "us" out there... the FB/Social Media thing also makes sense...

Thanks for clarifying what I was kind of guessing....

All forums go through slumps. You will always have your regular members that post everyday, but most join up to get information / instructions, and then disappear shortly after.
I think I'm a member of 17 firearm / hunting type forums. Some I post regularly on, other's I only post on subjects that interest me. Some people use forums as a main form of socializing and post on every subject listed on them. I usually only post on firearm's and optics related subjects, I always stay out of personal or political postings. My views and thoughts I'd rather keep to myself.

I belong to, and participate in, a plethora of forums from shooting to automotive and several in between. I've been an active member of a NW fishing forum since 2007. It used to be a great place, scores of posts daily on all manner of things, and then came smart phones and the push to make the forum "mobile friendly". Following that, the owners made a FB version and the forum literally tanked. I still check it daily for signs of life and it will go a week or more with no new posts. When there are, it's either a spammer or someone who just joined and asks a question to which no one replies. I consider it a sign of the times.

I raced ATV's for many years. Lots of Pa. Hare Scrambles and a few GNCC's. Was really fond
of hill climbing on some of the biggest hills across the country. I was nothing to jump on the
Web, find a site, (Hundreds of them), talk to people, about the next events, then gas up and
go.....It's mostly all gone. Most manufactures don't even make ATV's anymore, or maybe a
token ride to keep factory racers happy. All the supporting forums are mostly gone. With the
advent of hand held devices, the writing was on the wall. Adapt or die. Well I'm still kickin'
and positive proof that life does not need fugging cell phones. Never did, never will. And as
my usual side note 11 Suckerburg can go pound salt up his ass. !!

My apologies to anyone feeling offended by my last statement. It is what it is.

Fuj

I have to admit I used to be a tech junkie, now sort of recovered. I love my phone, tablets and laptop. Yes, I have several tablets of various vintages. Over time, instead of tossing them when outdated, I use them in specific roles. For example, one sits in the garage with various apps handy for doing things or looking up stuff when I am in the middle of something. It has greasy fingerprints on it and I consider it disposable, so if dropped it is no big deal. It also has a music playlist if I am so inclined.

My phone goes with me everywhere. I rarely use it as a phone as most of my 'conversations' with people are by text or email. It is my mobile computer, book library (including audio books when driving), game console (when waiting at placed like Dr office), navigation tool (both terrain maps and road), and, yes, a tool to get on forums. The last I used one time when my motorcycle broke on a trip. I accessed the forum to figure out how to get it fixed.

I still use forums quite a bit. I actually had to leave some of them as I was spending too much time on them, so, I abandoned some that I was no longer 'invested' in, such as the motorcycle forums since I quite riding (4 forums).

IMHO, there will always be something like forums. It may shift format away from the current forums, but, there will always be something.

Yes, FB has its good and bad points. We used it a lot when the kids first moved away from home. It was really nice to keep up with them. Others I know who use it are mostly grandparents keeping up with their kids and grandkids.

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Originally Posted by Fuj'

I raced ATV's for many years. Lots of Pa. Hare Scrambles and a few GNCC's. Was really fond
of hill climbing on some of the biggest hills across the country. I was nothing to jump on the
Web, find a site, (Hundreds of them), talk to people, about the next events, then gas up and
go.....It's mostly all gone. Most manufactures don't even make ATV's anymore, or maybe a
token ride to keep factory racers happy. All the supporting forums are mostly gone. With the
advent of hand held devices, the writing was on the wall. Adapt or die. Well I'm still kickin'
and positive proof that life does not need fugging cell phones. Never did, never will. And as
my usual side note 11 Suckerburg can go pound salt up his ass. !!

My apologies to anyone feeling offended by my last statement. It is what it is.

Fuj

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Well Fuj i dont think we can completely blame modern day things like cell phones.
How people go about using them is a personal thing, and no doubt a cause of some of the issues were discussing here.
I keep a flip top phone in my truck, and when i go out in my boat it goes with me there also.
If i break down out there in some swamp, i can at least let somebody know about it.
Every 90 days i buy a $20 air time card to keep it active, that buys me 180 minits of use, and the unused minits roll over and accumilate.
I currently have over 2500 unused minits on the thing, but i still need to renew every 90 days in order to buy more air time.
I also pay AAA a premium every year to come get me if i get a flat tire or otherwise break down someplace.
And thats why i need the cell phone. So they do have their place, and for me at 86 years of age and not really up to fixing flats on the side of a freeway, thats one of them.
But if we happen to walk into a restaurant and there is a group of people at another table, every one of them is apt to be scrolling on an i phone and ignoring the people they are with. And thats the part i personally think is causing problems.
And apparently there isnt much denying that Zuke and his Silicon Valley friends have found other ways to control our lives.
We are being herded, wether we like it or not.

I agree with that. It’s not the tech itself...it’s what sheeple are doing with it. Saying that smart phones, etc. are the problem, is akin to saying GUNS CAUSE DEATHS!

I was the first in my family to have a computer, be in online forums & have a cell phone. But I was NEVER part of the Social Media frenzy... the face pages and whatnot. Now I did hold out getting a smart phone; until 2013. But when I did finally get one, IT became my computer. And I use it to research everything online I’m interested in. But I do NOT use Apps. NONE! Can’t stand them, & would rather just look things up online. The always have.

Don’t get me wrong.. I love having a mini computer in my pocket at all times. It’s the World’s Knowledge at the fingertips! But these millennials holding a smart phone 24/7.... yeah, problem there. Especially when they are on their face page, and then ask YOU for an address or something. I would just take out my smart phone & motion to it saying, “They aren’t JUST for FACE PAGE & PORN!”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

I agree with that. It’s not the tech itself...it’s what sheeple are doing with it. Saying that smart phones, etc. are the problem, is akin to saying GUNS CAUSE DEATHS!

I was the first in my family to have a computer, be in online forums & have a cell phone. But I was NEVER part of the Social Media frenzy... the face pages and whatnot. Now I did hold out getting a smart phone; until 2013. But when I did finally get one, IT became my computer. And I use it to research everything online I’m interested in. But I do NOT use Apps. NONE! Can’t stand them, & would rather just look things up online. The always have.

Don’t get me wrong.. I love having a mini computer in my pocket at all times. It’s the World’s Knowledge at the fingertips! But these millennials holding a smart phone 24/7.... yeah, problem there. Especially when they are on their face page, and then ask YOU for an address or something. I would just take out my smart phone & motion to it saying, “They aren’t JUST for FACE PAGE & PORN!”

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Well this all brings about more questions than answers does it not?
At least it does for me.
If i can read everything i need to know about something, except maybe a bit of required on the job experience, then why do i need to come to places like this and ask people like you your opinion?
I mean we learned how to turn on and run the machine, probably better than most of the people who actually own them.

Uh huh. You need to work on reading comprehension. There is a difference between Book Knowledge & Experience. I simply said the Web is the World’s Knowledge... Which it IS! Yet navigating the Internet for good information is a skill set unto itself. No where in my entire post, did I allude to READING as being all that is required. Just as being an older person who has hunted for the last 50 years ALSO does not make for a sound knowledge base.

BTW...your constant attempts to discredit people really needs to stop. You aren’t fooling anyone. Im not the only one who’s has commented on your attitude in the last year.

I have seen many guys get out of shooting due to the rising costs. If you sell your guns and buy a fishing rod and reel you may visit fishing forums or just spend more time on the water.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

I have seen many guys get out of shooting due to the rising costs. If you sell your guns and buy a fishing rod and reel you may visit fishing forums or just spend more time on the water.

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I’ve only ever seen that after a felony conviction.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

I have seen many guys get out of shooting due to the rising costs. If you sell your guns and buy a fishing rod and reel you may visit fishing forums or just spend more time on the water.

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Well i already have all the very good guns i will ever need R/H at least for the things that interest me.
And i have enough powder bullets and primers to last my grand sons for their lifetime for hunting and practice shooting.
Ditto with fishing rods and lures, plus several very nice boats.
And since ive chosen to retire where i did, i also get to spend considerable time on the water.
Life is about choices you know, at least for the most part.
I do spent much of my time on the internet as well, and im very aware of its potential.
My son for example has a very large cabinet building shop right here where i live.
He has at least 20 different expensive machines in that shop for producing the work he does.
He does all the maintenance on those machines, and thanks to the internet and his I phone he can pull up everyhing he needs in order to do that.
Ive also been involved with Loran and now GPS since the days both were created.
There is one thing lost on much of this however, learning how to do something on the internet is one thing, but actually doing it is quite another.
And therein lies much of the problem in the world we live in today.
Weve become an internet educated society, with zero real world experience to a very large degree.
And if that pisses you off by having me say that Dave, sorry, but its simply the way it is.
And Dave if anyone on this site is guilty of discrediting people especially if their opinions vary from yours i might just be you.

I don't think things have changed that much. There are still a ton of people out there who can do their own work or fix their own stuff. I would say about the same percentage as when I was a kid. In HS there were probably less than 30 out of 1500 in my class who could fix things without guidance.

I've always believed that troubleshooting and leadership are two things that cannot be taught. You either have the ability or you don't. No one has been able to change that opinion for me in the last 45 years.

Charlie, YEEEUP! I agree.

yobuck, I don’t care what you say in general. I have a problem with you quoting me, & being disingenuous. LYING about what you said being MY point of view. You aren’t fooling anyone. But please... continue. You just aren’t on my radar any longer sport.

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Originally Posted by charlie b

I've always believed that troubleshooting and leadership are two things that cannot be taught. You either have the ability or you don't.

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I agree wholeheartedly.

Sign of the times! Breakfast this morning at our local Rod and Gun Club. Talking to my shooting buddies, normally we would have all shot at least 500 bullets this year, our average this year is 20! I am nearly out of primers and some powders, still have bullets but can't find new ones. I refuse to pay $50 for 100 primers and $50 for a # of powder.

Club trap range used to have 25-30 shooters shooting 20 squads on a normal Sunday morning. Our trap range is closed and has been for a month. Can't buy shells and powder, primers and shot are nonexistent.

I believe the supply is being manipulated and most of the kids are not serious shooters, no instant gratification. The older serious shooters are giving up due to supply and/or aging.

The millions of new guns are being sold for protection.... not sport or recreation. Those folks buy 2 boxes of shells and they will last for a lifetime. THE SUPPLY IS NOT CATCHING UP.

The left realized they could not get our guns.... but they can control the ammunition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Charlie, YEEEUP! I agree.

yobuck, I don’t care what you say in general. I have a problem with you quoting me, & being disingenuous. LYING about what you said being MY point of view. You aren’t fooling anyone. But please... continue. You just aren’t on my radar any longer sport.

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I make it a practice not to lie about things Dave, and im not aware that i at least intentionally ever quote things you say.
It could be maybe that you misinterpret some of what i say?
And i do attempt to make joke of things at times, and i should learn thats difficult to do, especially with some people
Not saying im always correct about things mind you, but im also carefull not to be giving my opinion on things ive never actually done myself.
Which is why i dont comment (ever) on how to fix things, like Savages for example, especially since there are lots of experts here for doing that.
Im also no expert on things like ammo, and all the various brands available today because fact is ive never used any of it.
Reason being that ive been involved in loading since my teens, way back in the early 50s.
When i find something that works for me at least well enough (for me) to do the things i do, im apt not to listen to others who think otherwise, and that includes things like loading and even shooting.
Especially when i know their not actually involved in the type things i do.
But hey, i guess if you own a canoe or a Kayak your a boater, and therefore qualified to answer all boating questions, right ?
Do i need explain that Dave? I mean i know you live up there in Dutch Wonderland, and sometimes things need a bit extra explaining to some of the people there.

As for people being born with certain talents, yes i would agree to a certain extent.
People like Luciano Pavarotti are very rare examples of that.
Wealthy rap singers, not so much.
Nolen Ryan, absolutely, same goes for other outstanding people in their field.
But fact is that skills can be taught and learned, and the skill level reached isnt always about inborn talent.
Determination and ambition can and does take some people further than those supposedly having more talent.
Much to the chagrin of those having the superior talent.

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Originally Posted by bsekf

Sign of the times! Breakfast this morning at our local Rod and Gun Club. Talking to my shooting buddies, normally we would have all shot at least 500 bullets this year, our average this year is 20! I am nearly out of primers and some powders, still have bullets but can't find new ones. I refuse to pay $50 for 100 primers and $50 for a # of powder.

Club trap range used to have 25-30 shooters shooting 20 squads on a normal Sunday morning. Our trap range is closed and has been for a month. Can't buy shells and powder, primers and shot are nonexistent.

I believe the supply is being manipulated and most of the kids are not serious shooters, no instant gratification. The older serious shooters are giving up due to supply and/or aging.

The millions of new guns are being sold for protection.... not sport or recreation. Those folks buy 2 boxes of shells and they will last for a lifetime. THE SUPPLY IS NOT CATCHING UP.

The left realized they could not get our guns.... but they can control the ammunition.

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Closer to what the point I was trying to make.