Bullets for Axis

My Axis is a pretty accurate gun with the right bullets. I can say with confidence it is a .5 MOA gun with the right bullet but I have not had nearly as much luck with the lighter ones. I am not going to say it will not shoot the lighter ones yet since I haven't done a lot of work with them yet but so far it is less than I expect. Are there any particular bullets in the say 50-55 grain range that have worked for you and also any particular powders that seem to work better?

Nearly forgot, it is a 223 Remington caliber.

I have an axis chambered in 22-250 that shoots the 50 & 53 gr. Vmax pretty well. I use H4895 for my powder. Can't say it's better than .5 MOA though.

The only 55gn bullets that I have tried are the cheap Hornady FMJBT bullets. They are close to MOA but not much better. Have not tried SMK's or other target grade light bullets.

Twist rate dictates the bullets that you should be looking into

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

Twist rate dictates the bullets that you should be looking into

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Is there some rule that tells you what weight is best for a twist rate and caliber?

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Originally Posted by Mr.Snerdly

Is there some rule that tells you what weight is best for a twist rate and caliber?

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Yes, however, if you plan on shooting the barrel you have, it is my humble opinion that is the one that will dictate your bullet purchase. I have a 7 twist I shoot 80 grains and higher. That doesn't help you. What twist do you have?

Bullet length not weight is what determines the twist rate needed. You may hear this weight bullet shoots better but what is being said is the length of this bullet works well in this twist. It has to do with the spin creating stability.

1 in 9. I see Savage does recommend the 69 grain for a 1 in 9 twist but 1 in 7 they recommend that and heavier. I noticed the 22-250 they recommend a 40 grain bullet for both a 1 in 12 and 1 in 9 twist. Interesting there would be that much variation in recommendations between 22 calibers.

"Bullet length not weight is what determines the twist rate needed. You may hear this weight bullet shoots better but what is being said is the length of this bullet works well in this twist. It has to do with the spin creating stability"

I believe that. The Hornady 68 grain shot horribly in both the Axis and Remington. I forget the exact measurement but it is definitely longer than the Sierra. Both the Axis and Remington shoot the 77 grain Sierra ever so slightly better than the 69 grain Sierra and a 77 grain is not supposed to work with the 1 in 9 twist. There is not enough difference between the two I would even make the statement, more likely believing it was operator error on my part but Charlie B said the 77 shoots the best for him too so I think it does work just a slight bit better.

What is your powder, charge weight and max deviation in weight with the 77?

22.8 of Benchmark. You mean how much difference in powder weight? I get it as close as I can on a beam scale, trickle it up the last tenth grain or so. Unless you mean something else like if I have used different powder charges, like 22.5, 22.8, 23 to see what worked best. I have only used the 22.8 charge so far.

For the .223....

According to Sierra at least 1-10 twist for the 69gn SMK bullets. 1-8 twist for the 77SMK. Don't know why the 77gn works so well in my Axis, but, it does. Could be that shooting it from the 16" (or shorter) barrel of the typical AR does not give it the extra velocity that I get from the 22" barrel. Mine exit at 2850fps.

Twist rate for the 55gn bullets is more like 1-12 if you look at the early AR15/M16.

Except for some very specific aerodynamic issues, over stabilizing a bullet is not 'harmful' until you get to very high velocities with thin jacket bullets.

FWIW, the Hornady 68gn HPBT match bullet was not very accurate at all in my rifle. Others have had the same experience. Nosler 69 and 77gn bullets were good, probably 0.1 or 0.2 worse than the SMK's. The 75 ELD was also a good bullet.

Hornady makes a 52gn ELD and 55gn VMax that I would try if I wanted a lighter bullet. Or the SMK.

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Originally Posted by Mr.Snerdly

22.8 of Benchmark. I get it as close as I can on a beam scale, trickle it up the last tenth grain or so. Unless you mean something else like if I have used different powder charges, like 22.5, 22.8, 23 to see what worked best. I have only used the 22.8 charge so far.

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I suspect this is your issue. You really need to consider multiple charges in a load workup. Then reprove it. Also have you ever thrown a charge and after you pour it into the case, dumped it back into the pan and reweighed it? Just to see if everything is repeating.

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Originally Posted by charlie b

For the .223....



Hornady makes a 52gn ELD and 55gn VMax that I would try if I wanted a lighter bullet. Or the SMK.

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I had just a few 52 grain Sierras left but didn't try them in the Axis. I normally save those for the 22-250. I only had enough for 1 group and tried them in the Remington. They shot well, not quite as good as the 69 and 77 grain but pretty good. There was a Speer bullet that worked pretty well in the Remington too but I can't remember what it was called but I think it was 52 grain. I had them all used up before I got the Axis. It would be nice if more bullets were available, along with powder and primers.

I am fighting the same issue. I have a load that works well in a 223 Handi rifle with a 1 in 12 twist. It uses a 36 gr Varmint Grenade. My 1 in 9 223 Axis shoots them into a pattern that is over twice the size. The Axis does shoot Rem 55 gr fmjs into 3/4" easily and repeteably. Now I just need to find a lead free bullet that matches the length of the Rem fmj. California is making me stick to lead free for hunting.
I need to pull a Rem Fmj bullet and compare it to the lead free offerings. DR

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...llets.485/fullMy best https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...-223.1357/full

I must be a lucky one because i have found a ton of light bullet loads that shoot well. Many hovering around 0.5 some better. The 40gr vmax shoots great,if you want heavier, the 53 Vmax is money. Varmageddon 40s shoot well too. Great results with the nosler BT lead free 35s. H335/wc844, tac, 4198, 748 the combinations are nearly endless. I have the same gun, sporter barrel 1:9. I've been very fortunate with this gun, for the price it shoots outstanding. My go to are 40 vmax and the 53s once the wind kicks up. I prefer blue dot powder but that is a whole different thread for sure. I shoot thousands of these a year at varmints. I'm confident in taking 250-300 yd shots at squirrels with these loads, if im reading the wind correctly and range estimate is good. I haven't stretched it past 350-400, that's not what i bought it for. So cant help there. PM me if you would like, i can look up actual load data, powder, etc to get you going. I have it all logged,but its out in shop! Good luck, im confident you will find an accurate load with a lighter bullet

22.8 grains of Benchmark is well below the recommended minimum load for a 53 grain bullet. Try the 53 V-Max and don't be afraid to put some oomph behind it. I load them with 26 grains of H4895 and easily get sub 1/2" groups.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cart...guides/223rem/

That was a 77 grain bullet.

243winxb, How much of the bullet was in the case at 2.32" OAL? I was afraid to seat the light bullets out that far for fear they wouldn't have enough support but from your groups it obviously works.

Part # 39560 is for 250 bullet pack. A box of 100 bullets has part # 39526https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...-320.3905/full

243Winxb, would you know the distance to the lands on that bullet? I got some 55 grain Speer today and seating the bullet to the same OAL length as the Berger probably would not be the same. I know seating them to the same distance to the lands probably would be better but with 2 different bullets it might not mean anything but it would be a place to start.

No.

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Originally Posted by 243winxb

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...llets.485/fullMy best https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...-223.1357/full

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Noslers BTLF 50 gr is just about as close to the same length as the 55 gr Rem fmj as I am going to find! If I can get that kind of accuracy from them, I will be happy. That should be fine for coyotes and an ocasional ground squirrel! Its nice that Nosler advertises the bulets length. DR

I tried some 55 grain Speer TNT bullets, first seated at 2.32" and it was not great. Not a total disaster but not what I like. I tried at 2.25" OAL and it seemed better but still not anything to brag about. With those bullets I would say it is about a 7/8-1" gun. The Remington (which is basically a Marlin X-7, as I am sure most of you know) shots them about 5/8"-3/4". The Remington shoots everything slightly better. With the preferred bullets they are very close but they cost quite a bit more money too.

It still amazes me how a bullet can be that far off the lands and shoot decently. Evidently getting everything close to the lands is not always the way to go, not that it was even close at 2.32" but you could damn neart throw a cat between the bullet and the lands at 2.25".

Mr Sneerdly, wait till you try lead free bullets! Some of them don't even start to group till you are 50 to 60 thousands off the lands! 80 thousands is not unheard of! DR

I have an Axis in .223 and the most accurate bullets in my rifle are Hornady 22 cal. Match - 53 grain hollow points. (#2250) I get sub minute of angle at 100 yds. with a variety of powders. A2015, H322 and RL7. COAL is 2.25" and twist is 1 in 9".

My axis 223 completely factory set up . ( afraid to change anything) 55 grain hornady V max . Fed primers 27.3 grain cfe 223 or 27 grain varget sub 1/2 all day . Winchester brass loaded long I forget my oal . But its like 20 thou off lands . Bullet just a hair deeper than neck length . Flat base bullets seem to shoot better under 300 yds than boat tails . Not sure why ask the ppc bench rest guys . Twist is 1 in 9

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Originally Posted by kingdombuilder

My axis 223 completely factory set up . ( afraid to change anything) 55 grain hornady V max . Fed primers 27.3 grain cfe 223 or 27 grain varget sub 1/2 all day . Winchester brass loaded long I forget my oal . But its like 20 thou off lands . Bullet just a hair deeper than neck length . Flat base bullets seem to shoot better under 300 yds than boat tails . Not sure why ask the ppc bench rest guys . Twist is 1 in 9

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I wonder if my Axis had somewhat of a screw up from the factory. I don't think I could get that bullet anywhere that close to the lands and have an adequate amount in the case. I have measured this several times and the throat is .070" longer than the Remington. I have found that being close to the lands is way overblown, at least with my rifles, but I think anything over .100" can't be good.

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I have found that being close to the lands is way overblown

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+1!

Have to test more, but looking ok so far. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...4166.3940/full

Like 4166 a lot. Used it to replace Varget.

243winxb, have you tried the 77 grain Sierra? I think it is just slightly more accurate but they are also far more expensive. I think for the extremely small difference it isn't worth the price. I am never going to win any accuracy contests with a $300 gun and a $250 scope but I do like to do as well as possible. Have you tried CFE 223 powder? That and a little bit of Benchmark is all I have and I have no idea when powder and primers will be readily available again but when it is I would like to get the most accurate. Do you feel weighing the brass helps in accuracy? I have not been doing that but it might be worth doing.

Thinking 9 twist to slow for 77gr? Not tried CFE223 or Benchmark. Weighing brass seems to help, when its new & all from the same lot. LC mixed, probably not. Annealing and neck turning should make for more consistent bullet hold/neck tension.

May be just extra work, but a good winter activity.

^^^I know, the 77 grain isn't supposed to work but Charlie B has been using them and I tried them. Another gentleman that has outstanding accuracy on this forum also uses them but I can't recall his name. They do cost a lot more though which some may say is worth it but the difference in accuracy is slight. I do need to anneal my brass, been too long since I did it but no signs of split necks but I guess it helps with uniform neck tension. The 68 grain Hornady is supposed to work but I had the poorest accuracy with that bullet of any that I have tried so far. Funny, some of the stuff that shouldn't work does and some that should doesn't, at least for me.

CFJunkie, Hamilton*** and I have all used the 77gn SMK's in the Savage 1-9 twist barrels with excellent results. For me they are good for 1/2MOA or so at 200yd. Just for grins I shot mine at 1000yd and got a 18in group in a slight breeze (5mph maybe). I like to shoot a 5" plate at 600yd or soda cans at 400yd. Good practice for shooting in the wind. I load them with 23.5gn of Varget and 2.280oal for a vel of 2850fps. I don't do anything with the cases. Just load and shoot. I do use Lapua cases simply because I get a ton more reloads with them before they give out. My current batch have had 16 reloads and are just now beginning to show some loose primer pockets. They have never needed trimming either.

The SMK's are a little more expensive, but, they do better for me at range than the 69gn SMK's. CFJ likes the tipped match kings better but they cost even more.

My Axis is approaching 4000 rounds and shoots as well as it ever did. I kinda slowed down shooting it due to the shortage of components but things are starting to look up. Got a lb of 4166 the other day. So, will start taking it to the range more often again.