DBM Conversion (Right/Wrong Bottom Metal or Trigger Guard)

I've got a short action centerfeed Stevens 200 for which I had bought a blind-mag Boyds stock. At the time I also picked up a metal trigger guard. When the stock came I let it sit for several months. Later I discovered that the stock had been mis-cut at the bolt handle. Boyds wouldn't swap it out since it was >90 days, but did give me a discount on a new stock. It is worth noting that the metal trigger guard had a thin tab at the rear action screw hole, while the plastic trigger guard from my Stevens 200 stock is twice as thick. However, the thin tabbed metal one worked with the old Boyds stock.

I just received the new stock from Boyds and it's perfect as far as all the inletting goes. With the new stock I had also decided to switch to a DBM. I called Savage and ordered the bottom metal and a bottom plate to convert my blind mag to a magazine. But I skipped adding a metal trigger guard, because I already had one.

When I look at the pictures on this DBM tutorial... http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...Parts-Tutorial ...it looks like the metal trigger guard I currently have would go with the DBM that I expected to receive from Savage (i.e., thin metal trigger guard with the shown bottom metal/thick screw tab for the rear action screw). However, upon receipt of the part from Savage it looks like the action screw tab on the bottom metal is 'thin,' which would mean I need a trigger guard that is 'thick' (like the plastic one from my Stevens stock).

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So my questions are this: 1) Did Savage send me the wrong bottom metal; or 2) Did the bottom metal change since the tutorial was published? And depending on those answers, should I just order a metal trigger guard shaped like the plastic one, or should I get a different part from Savage? For what it's worth, the plastic trigger guard fits perfectly, while the metal one...even if it were thicker...is not as tight of a fit in terms of horizontal width. I think I bought the metal trigger guard from Midway. Anyhow, when I google Savage metal trigger guard all I can find are the thin ones. But I did find some metal versions of the plastic trigger guard on Ebay (most are take-offs).

In looking back at the tutorial...I'm thinking Savage sent me a DBM bottom metal piece that is intended for a bottom bolt release, versus a top bolt release like the Stevens 200. I suppose however it would still work with a different trigger guard. It seems like the rear action screw tab is the only difference. And the plastic trigger guard does seem to have a more flush fit with the stock. Anyone have a recommendation?

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Originally Posted by gnumadic

In looking back at the tutorial...I'm thinking Savage sent me a DBM bottom metal piece that is intended for a bottom bolt release, versus a top bolt release like the Stevens 200. I suppose however it would still work with a different trigger guard. It seems like the rear action screw tab is the only difference. And the plastic trigger guard does seem to have a more flush fit with the stock. Anyone have a recommendation?

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OK, I think I have now answered my own question. I do have the bottom bolt release bottom metal (#106705). I definitely ordered a top-bolt release stock from Boyds.

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However, the inlet for the bottom metal on the Boyds stock is cut for the new style bottom bolt release (note the square cut-out where the front action screw passes through).

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So if I were to have the original top bolt release bottom metal, I'd have to then make a modification to the Boyds stock in order for it to fit flush (because part #106238 has a longer rectangular lip vs. the shorter square one on #106705).

So my solution is to simply order a new style trigger guard, right? The less cutting I have to do on this stock the better.

Looks like your Stevens 200 stock came with a new style plastic TG (thick front lip). You have the current metal DBM frame assembly (thin rear lip) and an old style metal trigger guard (thin front lip). The old style metal trigger guard was used with blind magazine stocks and older top bolt release, actions. You can put washers under the old style TG to raise front lip until flush with DBM frame assembly. You could also use a metal new style bottom bolt release TG, but it will have a hole in front for the BBR button you won't need. Gun Shack has these for sale on their site.

Savage most likely has a metal version of the new style TG without the front BBR button cut-out, but I don't know the part number. So, I'd first call Savage Arms Parts and tell them you need a new style metal trigger guard (thick front lip) without the BBR button hole in the front (ex. Bear Hunter model).

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Originally Posted by jpdown

Looks like your Stevens 200 stock came with a new style plastic TG (thick front lip). You have the current metal DBM frame assembly (thin rear lip) and an old style metal trigger guard (thin front lip). The old style metal trigger guard was used with blind magazine stocks and older top bolt release, actions. You can put washers under the old style TG to raise front lip until flush with DBM frame assembly. You could also use a metal new style bottom bolt release TG, but it will have a hole in front for the BBR button you won't need. Gun Shack has these for sale on their site.

Savage most likely has a metal version of the new style TG without the front BBR button cut-out, but I don't know the part number. So, I'd first call Savage Arms Parts and tell them you need a new style metal trigger guard (thick front lip) without the BBR button hole in the front (ex. Bear Hunter model).

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Thanks! I looked up the trigger guard on Gun Shack. I can see what you mean by the cut-out for the front button, too. I really wish Savage would get their online parts store back up. It's so frustrating having to call and not being able to see all of the options/part numbers.

I found these on Ebay, one coming from a 12FV and the other unspecified (except that both state top bolt release and have a thick front lip).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Savage-Meta...e/323435903397
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Savag...h/263893439495

They should work if metal.

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Originally Posted by jpdown

They should work if metal.

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Thanks again. I ordered one of them. I figure I'll have it by Saturday, while I'm sure calling Savage would take until next week and cost about the same in price/shipping. I am anxious to get this project completed and the rifle sighted in before deer season begins (particularly if I decide to go ahead and bed the action).

I always put a washer between the TG and the DBM.

I got the trigger guard (perfect fit). I hadn't figured on needing a shorter front action screw, so I had to order that part (#105829) and wait. Everything seems to fit and function well, although I felt like I heard some slight crunching when I tightened up the action screws. I used a torque screw driver and set it at 30lbs...and then adjusted it down to 25lbs. I didn't go all the way on the rear action screw.

The action does feel like I can rock it very slightly side-to-side when pushing on the end of the barrel, so it probably needs to be glass bedded (preferably pillars too). I have some aluminum pillars that I bought on Ebay (Pete's Pillars). However, with the way it's milled for the DBM I just don't feel like there's enough wood in there--both vertically and horizontally--to bore a 1/2" to 9/16" hole.

Should I just do the glass bedding? I also thought about using a thinner pillar, like brass pipe nipple or threaded lamp rod. Open to suggestions.

So I picked up some brass pipe nipple and threaded lamp rod. I don't know what the lamp rod is made from, but it is zinc plated. I like that it's the most narrow (less wood to remove). And the threads give the epoxy a lot of grab. It's probably also the least stable material. But is it good enough? This is just a deer hunting rifle, so I'm wanting to do this to 1) keep the wood from compressing; and 2) stabilize the action (in that order). I'm not looking to squeeze every little bit of accuracy out of this rifle (although I do care about that...it's why I have a Savage!).

The current action holes in the stock are .300" in width. I have a drill press and am fairly handy. But I don't want to ruin the stock. Below are my options.

1. Mystery metal (?) lamp rod, hole cut with 3/8" Forstner bit
2. Brass pipe nipple, cut with 27/36" twist bit
3. Aluminum pillars, cut with 1/2" Forstner bit

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For those who've done this before on a laminate stock cut for a DBM, what would you recommend?

I now use a Dremel tool and small router to open up the holes for pillars. I've tried to do it with a hand drill, but the bit will grab and crack the laminate wood if not very careful. Since you have a drill press, I would go with the lamp rod or smallest diameter pillar you have. All the pillars do is stop the screws from compressing the wood. Stress-free bedding the action and recoil lug are the important steps. Put two rounds of tape around the screws to center them in the pillars. Attach pillars to the action. Get the action, attached pillars, recoil lug, barrel and tang positioned correctly in the stock. Use tape to center and free float the barrel and tang in the stock. Bed the pillars into the stock and then come back and bed the action and recoil lug.

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Originally Posted by jpdown

I now use a Dremel tool and small router to open up the holes for pillars. I've tried to do it with a hand drill, but the bit will grab and crack the laminate wood if not very careful. Since you have a drill press, I would go with the lamp rod or smallest diameter pillar you have. All the pillars do is stop the screws from compressing the wood. Stress-free bedding the action and recoil lug are the important steps. Put two rounds of tape around the screws to center them in the pillars. Attach pillars to the action. Get the action, attached pillars, recoil lug, barrel and tang positioned correctly in the stock. Use tape to center and free float the barrel and tang in the stock. Bed the pillars into the stock and then come back and bed the action and recoil lug.

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Thank you! I worked on it this morning and used the drill press and a 3/8" Forstner bit. Worked well...just some tiny tear-out. The holes weren’t quite wide enough for the lamp rod to pass through (although I could have screwed the rod in place). So I took a Dremel with a sanding drum and opened it up a little more.

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I think I will follow your two step process (bed the pillars, then bed the action), but I have a couple questions.

1) To bed the action I believe I’m supposed to relieve the wood behind (by a 1/4") and below (by 1/8") the recoil lug. Do I need to do this BEFORE I epoxy the pillars in place? I am thinking I should remove under the recoil lug now, and behind the recoil lug after the pillars are in place.

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2) Is it OK to follow your steps to epoxy the pillars without the bottom metal in place (that is, should I worry about alignment with the bottom metal and trigger guard)?

I would not remove any wood around the recoil lug or under the action until you have the pillars done. The recoil lug helps align everything. As already mentioned, put two layers of tape around the action screw shafts to make sure they center in the pillars. Attach the pillars to the action using the taped action screws. See if the barreled action with pillars attached will drop into the stock without binding on the sides of the stock holes. You may need to do some more fitting to make sure the barrel and tang are free-floated and centered and the pillars slide freely into the holes. Double check to make sure the bottom metal holes align with the pillars and action screw holes. Make sure the action is level from side-to-side in the stock. If so, you are ready to bed the pillars without the bottom metal in place. You can always come back and bed any gaps/voids around or between the bottom of the pillars and bottom metal. Make sure to put release agent on the action screws, action bottom and other parts in case epoxy runs out from around the pillars.

Thanks, I understand now. I did a bunch of test fitting and ended up opening up the rear hole more than the front. Not by much though and the epoxy will fill it. All the holes on the bottom metal and trigger guard seem to line up with the action screws.

I also roughed up the inside of the action holes to help grab the epoxy. Taped the barrel to center it, as well as put 3 layers on the tang. It'll be ready to epoxy tomorrow when I'm a little more rested.

How do you secure the action in the stock while the pillars set? Electrical tape? Quick grip clamps? I've read that when doing it all at once you're not supposed to clamp it too hard, but for a two step process maybe that only applies to the second step.

Just use tape to hold in place. You don't want a stress-free job. Clamps may cause stress points.

Thanks again. I got the pillars in. I used JB Weld for the epoxy, Kiwi brown shoe polish for the release agent, and Play-Doh to fill the voids in the action (couldn't find my plumber's putty). Everything came out OK and the pillars line up perfectly with the action holes. The pillars are slightly proud on the bottom, so I'll grind them down flush with my Dremel (better than the other way!). I should have made a dam with the Play-Doh by the rear pillar, but that should all clean out when I notch the pillar for the sear.

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The tang is freefloating on all sides except for right behind the bolt notch. I should have caught this up front and sanded that area down. Given that I used electrical tape and not any clamping force, I should be able to sand that area down (bottom two frames) and the tang will still be floating, right?

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Without even torquing down the bolts, the action seems a lot more stable just with those pillars in place. I can't wait to get the whole thing bedded, assembled, and take it to the range.

The only question I'm still unsure about is how much wood to remove around the recoil lug. To your point earlier, the lug notch in the stock lines everything up.

Looks like you're doing a fine job. Now that the pillars are in place, get a couple of 1/4" x 4" bolts from the local hardware store. Cut the heads off the bolts. Screw them into the action holes. They should slide through the pillars and protrude below the stock. They will serve as guide rods for stress-free bedding the action and recoil lug area while aligning the action in the stock. After the bedding has cured for 24 hours, you can tap the bolts with a hammer to break the action loose from the bedding. I remove about 1/8" or less of wood under the action and behind the recoil lug. I've used JB Weld, but I found it to be slow to cure and still soft after 24 hours. I like Devcon Plastic Steel epoxy found in the double plunger tube at the local hardware store works better. Remember to use release agent or tape on everything that will come in contact if you want to remove it after the bedding epoxy cures.

The longest 1/4"x28 bolts I could find were 3" long. Hopefully they'll still work. I looked at three different hardware stores for Devcon, but no one seems to carry it. Maybe an industrial supply store around town has it. I do have an ample supply of JB Weld...and from what I've read the flex and tensile strength are as good or better.

For anyone following along, one step I failed to do was protect edges of the stock with tape when I was cutting the rear pillar for sear clearance. It took my a while to figure out which Dremel bits and angles were going to work. In the meantime I nicked the finish with the edge of my Dremel flex shaft. I'm sure that worse will happen in the field!

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Lift dings with wet patch and hot iron. Use 600 grit sand paper and dirty sand with Tru-oil to fill nicks and remove scratches. Apply several coats of Tru-oil to blend and repair finish. Use 0000 steel wool to dull finish between coats of Tru-oil.

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Originally Posted by jpdown

Lift dings with wet patch and hot iron. Use 600 grit sand paper and dirty sand with Tru-oil to fill nicks and remove scratches. Apply several coats of Tru-oil to blend and repair finish. Use 0000 steel wool to dull finish between coats of Tru-oil.

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That was helpful, particularly since I had to do some sanding to get the tang fully free-floating. I've been busy with some other things, but am about ready to take the final plunge. Spent some time roughing up the bedding area today with a dremel carving bit. I do, however, have a couple last questions.

I've read that most people don't bed the barrel nut area. However, it seems to me that I'll at least have to put epoxy up to the brim of the recoil lug pit. Is it OK if some oozes out on the forward side (? spot), or should I try to dam that area up with putty? What is the harm in bedding the barrel nut if you fill in the barrel nut grooves with putty?

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Also, I noticed that when I put in the pillars that the stampings (yellow circles) on the action left raised sections in the dried epoxy. I sanded those down and will fill those spots in the action with plumbers putty. Should I leave the little nub on the recoil lug (red circle) alone, or put a tiny piece of putty there, too?

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When I bed mine, I fill the notches in the bbl nut with modeling clay, and then wrap the bbl and nut with a layer of Saran Wrap. Apply liberal amounts of kiwi shoe polish over this. I didn’t bother filling any stampings or the locating notch on the recoil lug. I also make a small dam from modeling clay that sits across the bbl nut area.

Put tape across stock in front of recoil lug slot. After epoxy excess cures, score across top in front of lug under barrel nut. Lift tape and excess epoxy will break off cleanly at score. Fill groves with release agent

Looking good. Look forward to progress.

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Originally Posted by jpdown

Put tape across stock in front of recoil lug slot. After epoxy excess cures, score across top in front of lug under barrel nut. Lift tape and excess epoxy will break off cleanly at score. Fill groves with release agent

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Next time I will do that. I tried to build a dam with putty, but I ended up putting too much epoxy into the recoil lug slot. This in turn caused an overflow, halted by the dam. So I essentially ended up bedding about half of the recoil lug. Thankfully, I was able to clean it up with my Dremel...grinding it flush with the cutout.

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I've removed all the plumber's putty and brown shoe polish. The action fits like a glove. Tight and true. Form and function are much improved over the blind mag Tupperware stock. What a difference! Now I just need to figure out how to put the trigger back on (incl. a Rifle Basix SAV-1 upgrade). I'll post a pic when finished.

So here it is...a refreshed Stevens 200 in 7mm-08 ready for the range (and then the hunt)! I spent some time today getting the scope installed, since the LOP on the Boyds was different than the factory stock. Upgrades over the original Stevens 200 are as follows:

• Savage oversized bolt handle
• Rifle Basix SAV-1 trigger
• DBM conversion (incl. metal trigger guard)
• Boyds platinum stock

Thank you to everyone who helped me with the DBM conversion and bedding!

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That looks killer! My only regret with my Boyd’s was not getting the checkering, gets slick when wet.

You might decide a shaw bbl in 7mm-08 is next on your upgrade list!

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Originally Posted by RustyShackle

That looks killer! My only regret with my Boyd’s was not getting the checkering, gets slick when wet.

You might decide a shaw bbl in 7mm-08 is next on your upgrade list!

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Thanks! I debated on the stippling versus going smooth (and saving $55). I also thought about trying to texture the stock myself. I'm glad I went with the laser cut stippling, but I do wish Boyds had more options. I wanted the full wrap center-point style but it wasn't available when I ordered it.

Funny about the continued upgrading. That's the thing about Savage rifles...they're like the car you can work on yourself! I'm actually thinking about an optics upgrade, starting with a one-piece scope mount. I didn't notice it before but I had some issues with the two-piece Weaver bases and Burris Zee rings aligning evenly. Perhaps an EGW base is up next.

The scope is a Sightron S1 3-9x40 (made in Japan...before the S1 production went to the Philippines). It's great for what I paid for it. However, I have a Leupold VX-3i on my 6.5 Grendel AR and I'm spoiled now.

I’ve got a VX3i too. Nice glass. Although my Bushnell elites are probably every bit as clear.

With a detachable magazine a single piece base isn’t a bad idea. I’m surprised you had issue with the Burris sig rings. They are one of my favorite.

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Originally Posted by RustyShackle

I’ve got a VX3i too. Nice glass. Although my Bushnell elites are probably every bit as clear.

With a detachable magazine a single piece base isn’t a bad idea. I’m surprised you had issue with the Burris sig rings. They are one of my favorite.

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I think I had two issues going on. First, the two piece bases were not in complete alignment with each other. If I ran a level across the front and rear bases, then they were not even...not huge but slight. It could be the holes in the action or the bases themselves. That’s why I was thinking about a one piece base.

The other issue I had was with the Burris Signature Rings and the plastic inserts. One of them kept falling out of alignment with the top of the ring during installation. I finally flexed it outwardly enough so that friction kept it in place long enough to tighten the ring down. I don’t remember it being a problem when the rings were brand new. Perhaps it’s because they were several years old.

Hmm, seems like I had a similar issue some time back. I just clipped the insert over the scope and then placed the upper half of the ring, pushed down and inserted the screws. My biggest gripe with the sig rings is the clamp design. Although I’m sure it’s very adequate, it’s not robust. Seems like a set of Warne rings machined for inserts would be the ticket.

I’m debating refinishing and attempting some checkering on my Boyd’s. What’s the worst that could happen? Lol.

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Originally Posted by RustyShackle

Hmm, seems like I had a similar issue some time back. I just clipped the insert over the scope and then placed the upper half of the ring, pushed down and inserted the screws. My biggest gripe with the sig rings is the clamp design. Although I’m sure it’s very adequate, it’s not robust. Seems like a set of Warne rings machined for inserts would be the ticket.

I’m debating refinishing and attempting some checkering on my Boyd’s. What’s the worst that could happen? Lol.

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I think I could do stippling and make it look good. Checkering would definitely take some practice. I do have a Boyd's stock that was mis-cut. It was beyond the return period when I discovered it, so they would only give me $30 off a new stock. I think I'll hang on to it as a practice piece.

So I went ahead and ordered a one-piece Evolution Gun Works base, along with some low Warne rings. I might as well get that VX-3i while I'm at it!

Also, I wanted to give a quick range report, along with a newbie mistake that others might benefit from reading. I sighted it in with a point blank range of about 22 yards--which with the load I was shooting should be 3.41" high at 100 yards, back to zero at 262 yards, and 4" low at 308 yards.

I backed out to 100 yards to validate the short range session. The first couple groups were around MOA. And then the next two just opened up. Like 4-5". I needed to leave to meet one of my kids at the school bus, so at first I chalked it up to being in a hurry.

After thinking about it for a while I checked the action screws, which I had initially tightened to about 35 in/lbs. They came out a little too easily. That totally would have caused the groups to open up.

With a little more research on torque specs for various stocks, including pillar bedded actions, I realized that I had not adequately cleaned out the action screw holes after the bedding job. D'oh! There was still some shoe polish in there, which I'm sure was causing the screws to slowly back out.

So now it's cleaned/degreased and all put back together. I also went up to 40 in/lbs on the torque, as most of what I've seen is 35-40 in/lbs as a range. And next time I go to the shooting range I will bring my torque driver with me, too!

I have had three trips to the range since this DBM conversion and pillar/bedding job. All three have been disappointing. Trip number one was described above. Before trip number two I installed a one-piece 0 MOA base by EGW and a new Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 scope. I still couldn't shoot decent groups.

So I went home and disassembled everything. Thoroughly cleaned it. Checked to see that the barrel was free-floated (and the barrel nut). Made sure no wood was coming in contact with the trigger mechanism. Sanded out some more wood from the tang area so that a business card could pass (previously I was using a paper receipt). Put it all back together and torqued the action screws with a fat wrench to 40 in/lbs. Below is a result of today's range session.

Group 1 - about 1.25"...adjusted the scope a few clicks right and down (goal was to be 3.4" high at 100 yds).
Group 2 - not what I was expecting given the adjustments to the scope.
Group 3 - dialed the height adjustment back a click or two.
Group 4 - no scope adjustments...similar horizontal group but an inch lower.
Group 5 - my last 5 rounds. I suppose it's minute of deer <100 yards but I just don't trust it.

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I gave the barrel time to cool between sets (walking to the target to check). I took my time, stayed relaxed, etc. I made sure that the action screws weren't loosening. The trigger is light (Rifle Basix SAV-1). There was some light wind but I waited till there were lulls. For comparison, I was shooting MOA this morning with my 6.5 Grendel, so I don't think it was me, the rest, the wind, etc. I think it's the rifle. And it previously shot MOA in that ugly tupperware stock (which I no longer have unfortunately) and heavy factory trigger.

As for the new scope, it's worth noting that my first range session was with another scope and I had similar lackluster results. I'm also using Warne rings, which I dry torqued to spec (25 in/lb). And again, with the old Sightron scope I was shooting tight groups with the factory stock.

What advice do you all have? Is there anything else I can do on my own, short of re-bedding it? I suppose I could try different torque amounts on the action screws, but I've already blown $60 in ammo getting to this point. Should I take it to a gun smith? I'd almost rather put the next $60 in ammo toward that. I have to say I'm disappointed because one of the benefits of a Savage/Stevens is being able to work on it yourself. Kind of like an old car. :(

Wait...something just occurred to me while I was driving (was...I’m typing this at Chick-til-A). Do I need to epoxy bed the bottom metal? The trigger guard fits pretty tight in the Boyd’s stock, but there seems to be some clearance around the bottom metal (even though it seems to cinch tight). Could that be causing the errant shots—that is, causing the action to move under recoil? :confused:

This is my $0.02 worth.... with full on metal pillars you should be able to go much higher on the torque, like 65 in/lb. Try that on the front and play around with lowering the rear torque if necessary. Some people report quite different results with different rear screw values. Just make sure the front action screw is not hitting the bolt and grind it down as necessary.

Would more torque keep the bottom metal from moving laterally under recoil? I was thinking that if the bottom of the action screw isn't fixed in place with the stock (just like the top/action is secure due to the bedding job), then the rig is ultimately not stable. With the old plastic stock the rifle had a blind magazine, so the front action screw sat in a pillar escutcheon.

Here are videos I took this afternoon of the bottom metal and trigger guard (note: could not figure out how to embed).

Bottom Metal/Front Action Screw
https://player.vimeo.com/video/298771638
https://vimeo.com/298771638

Trigger Guard/Rear Action Screw
https://player.vimeo.com/video/298771648
https://vimeo.com/298771648

It may also be worth noting that on the bedding job I did a single layer of masking tape on the sides and front of the recoil lug. So there's a tiny bit of lateral play already (maybe I shouldn't have done the tape but it's what most people here seem to do).