Is the purpose of neck turning (not neck trimming) to make it small enough for a tight, custom chamber or to make it concentric?
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Is the purpose of neck turning (not neck trimming) to make it small enough for a tight, custom chamber or to make it concentric?
If you're referring to trimming in reference to the length of the case at helps with consistency on neck tension consistency in case volume and just some safety factors like if that net gets too long it could jam up into the lands and prevent the bullet from being releasedQuote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
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I should also say I guess that it also helps with consistency and bullet seating depthQuote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
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"Is the purpose of neck trimming to make it small enough for a tight, custom chamber or to make it concentric??"
I would think both. "Trimming" usually refers to cutting the "length" of the case. "Turning usually refers to turning down the OD of the case neck.
That would be to get more clearance between the case neck and the neck of the chamber. Once you run into a "tight neck chamber", you'll know the reason for turning.
When it comes to OAL trimming, it's best to know the "actual measured length" of the chamber before you start cutting. Once you get that measurement, you may not need to trim.;)
I just came on line to edit my post. What I'm referring to is neck TURNING. Sorry for the mix-up. I'm quite familiar with neck trimming.
Ahh.. neck turning helps with even neck tension by having even thickness all around and I guess by nature is helping with concentricty of the neck. I read a article where the interview the top 50 match shooter and hardly any of the top 50% turned their neck.. I cant remember how I came across it but I imagine if you google something similar to "how pros case prep" you will likely find itQuote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
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Neck turning is to improve concentricity and uniformity, especially if you neck size your brass. It can also be used to fit a particular lot of brass to a custom chamber specced with a tighter than usual neck, which is often preferred by benchrest shooters. You can either turn off quite a bit if you have a tight neck or just a little if you only want to true up the necks. With the right tools, it can be a rather satisfying experience but without them, it's quite painfully time consuming and can lead to some frustration. Since we now have so many high quality brass choices, it's sometimes hard to justify neck turning and many shooters simply tell their barrel mechanic they want a chamber to fit Lapua brass, or whatever your premium brass preference is.
Personally?..Ive never heard of turning necks for the purpose of increasing the tolerance from brass neck to chamber but I can understand why. getting a custom reamer means customizing brass as well.
For me....turning necks equates to uniform neck tension. Ive mic,d some brass that reads .014 on one side and .012 on the opposite. Depending on the tooling.....it can be time consuming
I had never thought that much about neck turning and wasn't about to venture into that area TILL, I started messing with making the 20 VT brass from Remington .221 Fireball. Necking it down caused the necks to get think and at one point, the brass wouldn't chamber. After a little research, I figured out the necks were too thick for the neck portion of the chamber. Neck turning WAS needed. I had just about made up my mind that I WASN'T GOING TO DO IT!!! After a little thought, I ordered up the tools to get the job done. Not one of my favorite things to do BUT, it was something that had to be done if I wanted to continue playing with the VT. Turns out neck turning wasn't as bad as I had made it out to be.:p
But I did figure out another way. Fired and resized to 20 Remington .221 Fireball brass was all over the place concerning the necks. Most needed to be neck turned. New and sized to 20 was pretty even but still a little on the snug side. .231 to .232 was pretty much the norm. Ordered up a custom cut 20 VT reamer with a .234 neck. No more neck turning needed, at least for the 20 VT.:cool: Sometimes we just need to be flexible.
BLUF: I will never neck turn (Personal Opinion)
Uses for neck turning:
1. Tight neck Chamber spec (Usually specifically selected by the shooter due to their personal preference)
2. Removing donuts
3. Making brass from one cartridge normally of a larger size to a smaller size
4. ran out of other things to mess with chasing group size
I always run no neck turn chambers for the type of shooting I do. It I was shooting purely for groups etc i.e. Bench Rest I would probably to a look at that option for the upmost consistency.
Another trick of the trade for the general shooter is to use the neck turning mandrels to set neck tension. I utilize a bushing that gets me about .004-.005 neck tension and then run a mandrel die with a mandrel .002 under the caliber. I.E. .262 for a .264 chambering. This gets me .002-.003 neck tension every time, straightens and rounds the neck of any dings, and moves any inconsistencies to the outside of the case.
What does this achieve for me, Sub 1-3 SD's and single digit ES's. Groups follow suit. I don't have the time or patience to neck turn all my brass, but if I only needed 100pieces for a rifle I might look more into it. For the general shooter I don't really see the benefit of the process unless their goals are similar to a benchrest shooter trying to get to those .00xx groups.
I have had Remington .223 cases with over .009 neck thickness variations and would never consider neck turning them and just use them as blasting ammo in my AR15 rifles.
Redding recommends with their bushing dies if you have .002 or more thickness variations to use the expander that comes with their bushing dies.
It is the consensus of most reloaders with off the shelf factory rifles with SAAMI chambers that neck turning is not worth the effort.
I sort my cases with a Redding neck thickness gauge like below and this gauge is used to avoid any neck turning.
Right now I'm prepping some Lake City 7.62 cases and the case necks have less than .002 thickness variations.
After full length resizing I check neck runout and like to keep the runout as close as possible to the neck thickness variations.
So if you are not a benchrest shooter trying to shoot bug hole groups I would not bother neck turning.
The Redding gauge below will tell you a great deal about the quality of your brass and its uniformity.
https://i.imgur.com/B0haSAX.jpg
Lol... #4 is my favorite :)Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
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I have used a Forester trimmer setup for neck turning on certain varmint rigs and for brass that has beome too thick on the neck from being sized down .... such as 270 down to 25-06 case conversions.
As others have said, it is slow. In my case I just do it where it becomes necessary.
With a 788 Rem in 22-250 that was a problem child I tried outside neck turning. I run that cartridge with the Lee collet die. After turning I ended up buying an undersized mandrel (.001” undersized) and I dropped groups about 25% to .420” for five at 100. Not a fluke by any means as this rifle did so group after group. A Canjar single set trigger didn’t hurt though.
Best regards
Three44s
I bought neck turning tools only for reforming brass down to a smaller caliber. But only after almost getting a case stuck in a chamber, took it out and measured thickness and it had a difference of .002-.003 from one side to the other. I don't neck turn brass in the selected caliber, only necked down brass.
I had a similar problem with my first milsurp rifle a 7.65 Belgian Mauser in 1974. The Speer manual said to form 30-06 cases but after forming the base of the necks were too thick and had no neck clearance. I ended up scraping 40 new 30-06 Remington cases and made the 7.65 cases from shorter and thinner 7mm Mauser Winchester cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by rerun5
I buy bulk Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass and when using my Redding neck thickness gauge I was surprise to see how uniform the case necks were. The vast majority of these Lake City cases had less than .002 neck thickness variations. This makes the Lake city cases more uniform than bagged bulk Remington and Winchester cases.
Bottom line, buy a simple Redding neck thickness gauge and sort the cases for uniformity. This is much faster than neck turning and far less work and gives you a good indication of the quality and uniformity of the case.