SA long range hunting caliber

So, I'm planning on rebarreling my 243 into a larger caliber. I originally was set on making it a 260 but now am thinking of a 270wsm.
Rifle will be built to be a hunting rifle first, but want to be as accurate as can be too.

Goals: 500 yard deer killer
6" groups at 600 yards
Eventually shoot paper out to 800-1000

What I've come up with so far

260: pros: light recoiling
Can be very accurate
Lapua brass
Many bullets available

Cons: not sure of maximum effective range

270wsm: pros: better long range ballistics

Cons: more recoil (maybe causing me to be less accurate)
Fewer bullet choices
$ pricey brass
I'm not sure if the 270 is as highly regarded as being as accurate long range

Gun will be a savage model 16 short action small shank. planning on mounting a krieger barrel. 260 would be 8 or 8.5 twist shootingn130-140 gr bullets. Not sure of what twist would be best on 270wsm.

Anyone with any advice?

Bryan

I'd vote for a normal .284win. Near magnum performance. Same bolt head you already have. Fantastic selection of long range 7mm bullets.

260 all the way. Much more efficient with a lot less recoil. Effective range is up to you but I have taken deer out past 700 easily. Stick with 140gr bullets for best performance on targets and game both

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Originally Posted by stomp442

260 all the way. Much more efficient with a lot less recoil. Effective range is up to you but I have taken deer out past 700 easily. Stick with 140gr bullets for best performance on targets and game both

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How would the nosler accubond long range bullet compare to 140's? I think it will be 129 in the 6.5 offering. That is one bullet I was looking at if anyone ever gets them in stock

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Originally Posted by BFish22

How would the nosler accubond long range bullet compare to 140's? I think it will be 129 in the 6.5 offering. That is one bullet I was looking at if anyone ever gets them in stock

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Yeah, I'd like to see a box of those unicorns someday too. As far as I can tell, Nosler is hoarding them all for their 26 Nosler loads, leaving nothing for us handloaders. Dagnabbit.

I'd go with 260 Ackley Improved and Berger 140gr VLD. The 284 Win sounds interesting but I know nothing about it.

The 129gr Nosler accubond is over estimated on BC. Having a litz measured BC of .553 vs the advertised .561 it doesnt really do anything different than similar weight options. The berger 140 vld on the other hand has a BC of .612. This really comes in handy at longer range.

6.5 Creedmoor will do that handily, and do it well with factory 140 A-Max ammunition. The biggest issue will be putting the bullet where it needs to go at 500yd. 260 is ballistically equivalent, so that's a good choice too.

It would depend, at least in my opinion, on what is the average range you're going to be hunting and shooting at. If most of you shots are going to be inside 300 yards, the 260 would be more than sufficient. If you want something bigger, then I would look at the 2 popular shot magnums in 7mm, either the 7mm WSM or the 7mm RSAUM.

A 140 A-Max @ 2700fps (easily achievable from a 20" 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor) has 2000fps and 1240ft/lb of energy at 500 yards.

At 650yd, the same bullet retains a hair over 1800fps (generally considered a minimum expansion velocity) with a bit over 1000ft/lb energy.

I took a coues deer with a slow node load of 2840fps in a 6.5-284 and 140 Amax at 1243 yards. Bullet worked great and the deer only took three steps. Full penetration with nickel sized exit. 2840fps is right in the 260s wheel house and will kill much better than most give it credit for. I watched my friends wife kill a deer last year at 680 yards with a 260 and 120 Amax with same result. Full penetration of both shoulders and the deer fell like it was hit by lightning. Couldn't convince me to use anything else.

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like I should go with my original plan and build the 260. I think the 260 will be a better caliber for me to learn long range shooting than the wsm. I have a 30-06 that I shoot out to 300 yards and would like to get set up to go a little further. I'll continue on....thanks to all

Bryan

Its hard to beat a 260 or 6.5 creedmoor. One of the 7mm variants would be my next choice.

Yeah I think I was off on the 270wsm and should have been deciding between the 260 and 7mm-08, so far the 260 is winning

The 284 can spit a 180g VLD around 2900fps.

Pretty much spanks anything that doesn't have a magnum rim diameter.

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Originally Posted by geargrinder

The 284 can spit a 180g VLD around 2900fps.

Pretty much spanks anything that doesn't have a magnum rim diameter.

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+1 ... take a hard look at a 284 win. People are very hesitant to look at the old standard cartridges. .284 will do anything a 6.5 will do and more. Recoil will not be abusive, but retained energy/BC will be pretty noticeable. 168 VLDS match the BC of 140 6.5s with 20% more weight and they'll be running about 100-200 FPS faster. The 180's are another step away from up if you really want to push. I would say it comes down to whether you reload or not. If you do, I'd go with the .284. You still have lapua brass available via 6.5-284. If you don't reload, I'd lean toward the 6.5 CM over the .260. Better/more factory ammo options.

I'd go 1:9 twist for the 7mms and 1:8 twist for the 6.5s.

IF you're still entertaining the 270 WSM, I'd go with a 1:9 tube and run the 165 Matrix VLDs. Those will hang with the heavy 7mms. You're looking at a 165 gr, .65 BC running about 3000 FPS out of a 24" tube. BUT, then you're looking at building a rifle around a single custom bullet. I'd still lean towards the 7mm. The 270 will come at the cost of barrel life and more recoil for not much performance gain.

Although, I think you'll have a tough time getting the 180 VLDs to run at 2900 FPS out of a hunting built rifle. You'll need a longer barrel to make that happen.

Will the 284 Win fit in a short action with modern long range bullets? I know it started life in the short action 88s and 100s from Winchester but they didn't load 168 Bergers back then, they load round nose spritzers that are not as long. My 6-284 was a tight fit with 105 Amaxes, so thinking the 168s Bergers would be too long. Any one build a repeater short action 284 Win lately?

I was on the fence the same as you with the SA. Here's the article that put me over the edge:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

I'm doing my LW rig on a SA in 284 next year. I may give up a little performance, but 2800 - 2850 should be doable in a SA with 168s; I'm not interested I 180s. That's not MAX, but is still rather have a 168 running at 2800 than a 140 from a 6.5CM / .260 at 2800.

I admit that I don't know anything about the .284 besides that I assumed it was a long action caliber. How does the .284 compare to the 7mm-08? I guess using lapua brass the 284 I'd be sizing up and the 7mm-08 I'd be sizing down from 308. I never sized brass so I don't know which would be easier to learn but that should probably go in another board.

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Originally Posted by BFish22

I admit that I don't know anything about the .284 besides that I assumed it was a long action caliber. How does the .284 compare to the 7mm-08? I guess using lapua brass the 284 I'd be sizing up and the 7mm-08 I'd be sizing down from 308. I never sized brass so I don't know which would be easier to learn but that should probably go in another board.

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.284 will get you 100-200 fps more than a 7mm08; prob more like to 150-200. For brass, if you want Lapua, I would just get 6.5-.284 brass and use that ... it will prob feel a little dirty taking 6.5-284 brass back to the parent case :)

If you want easier more convenient, 7mm08 would fit your needs as well and be an off the shelf alternative. You could even likely use the factory barrel.

I can't believe that nobody mentioned the 6.5 WSM yet! It has all of the advantages of the 270 WSM plus better bullet availability. Stick it in a 1-9" twist barrel and run the 160 grain Matrix VLD and you're good to go.

If you want something a little more practical, then I'll add one more vote for the 284 Winchester. It can't keep up with the WSM based rounds, but you really don't need it to. I run a 284 out of a 19" barreled Striker shooting the 168 Berger VLD at a very lazy 2670. This combo easily holds .5 MOA out as far as it stays super sonic (around 1300 yards depending on conditions). I run Lapua brass (6.5x284 necked up) but Winchester brass is available if you look for it and get lucky. The Lapua brass is pretty pricey which falls into the negative category but the quality is there to make it worth it. Using my pretty mild load of H4831sc I have more than 7 firings on some of my brass and the pockets are still tight.

As far as hunting deer sized critters at 500 yards with it, I think you'd do just fine. I'm coming up with right about 1500 fpe at 500 yards. I it a deer with my 30 Herrett Contender at 78 yards opening weekend up here in WA and it just rolled over. That was probably less than 1200 fpe at the impact velocity and the performance was beautiful.

Andrew

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Originally Posted by yorketransport

I can't believe that nobody mentioned the 6.5 WSM yet! It has all of the advantages of the 270 WSM plus better bullet availability. Stick it in a 1-9" twist barrel and run the 160 grain Matrix VLD and you're good to go.
Andrew

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I offered cartridges that won't burn barrels since target shooting was one of his criteria. No doubt the 6.5 mags will be great ballistically, but barrel life will suffer considerably.

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Originally Posted by Tarheelpwr

I was on the fence the same as you with the SA. Here's the article that put me over the edge:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

I'm doing my LW rig on a SA in 284 next year. I may give up a little performance, but 2800 - 2850 should be doable in a SA with 168s; I'm not interested I 180s. That's not MAX, but is still rather have a 168 running at 2800 than a 140 from a 6.5CM / .260 at 2800.

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There is very little difference between the two ballistically as far as windage and trajectory are concerned as they have nearly identical BCs. There is only a slight advantage in energy with the 284 as the heavier weight bullet accounts for more down range energy but it does so using more powder and generating more recoil. If you really want to beat a 6.5 by any substantial margin you have got to use a 180, and again generate even more recoil with a heavier bullet to do it.

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Originally Posted by stomp442

There is very little difference between the two ballistically as far as windage and trajectory are concerned as they have nearly identical BCs. There is only a slight advantage in energy with the 284 as the heavier weight bullet accounts for more down range energy but it does so using more powder and generating more recoil. If you really want to beat a 6.5 by any substantial margin you have got to use a 180, and again generate even more recoil with a heavier bullet to do it.

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Those are valid points. Even with 180's, I don't think anyone would call a 284 a thumper though. It's also not a very big jump from 168s to 180s either. But it is more recoil none the less. The 7mm has 20% more energy. That's enough to take note in my book. Either way, I would not argue that a 6.5 won't get the job done though. I just like the flexibility that larger offering gives.

Part of my criteria for my personal .284 is that it's a sheep gun when I'm in bear country. Even it is far from ideal, but every little but helps.

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Originally Posted by Tarheelpwr

I offered cartridges that won't burn barrels since target shooting was one of his criteria. No doubt the 6.5 mags will be great ballistically, but barrel life will suffer considerably.

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Barrel life from the 6.5 mags isn't that much worse than the 270 mags. I've seen 6.5 WSM barrels shooting within 1 MOA with over 1000 rounds through them. Nitride the barrel and you'll go 1500 rounds easy. Then again, I'm of the opinion that barrels were made to be replaced. That's why they're threaded on instead of welded!

Andrew

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Originally Posted by yorketransport

Barrel life from the 6.5 mags isn't that much worse than the 270 mags. I've seen 6.5 WSM barrels shooting within 1 MOA with over 1000 rounds through them. Nitride the barrel and you'll go 1500 rounds easy. Then again, I'm of the opinion that barrels were made to be replaced. That's why they're threaded on instead of welded!

Andrew

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No doubt. The mags are all similar. I was referring to the 284 when I referenced barrel life. That should at least double the mags. I just gave input on the 270 in case he was set on it. I'd still lean toward the 7 short mags if I was going mag. 300 shorts will will perform with them running 215's, but that's pretty stout recoil for extended target sessions and the added energy is pretty overkill for 500 yd deer. Same could be said for mags in general for 500 yd deer.

That's the beauty of shooting today. So many options.

Any of the 6.5 rounds will work perfect for deer size animals.I really like the Creedmoor and would go that route.

Thanks for everyone's inputs. I'm still between the 260 and 7mm-08. They seem really close and I'll probly be ok with whatever I choose. I'll think about it for a while and be back and forth I'm sure. I can make lapua brass work for each. With the 260 I wouldn't have to resize which would be a plus. The 7-08 would have more factory ammo available which could be a plus. I'm just getting all of my reloading stuff together so I'll be taking on learning how to reload too. Hopefully factory ammo won't be necessary in the near future but having it available if need be wouldn't be bad.

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Originally Posted by BFish22

Thanks for everyone's inputs. I'm still between the 260 and 7mm-08. They seem really close and I'll probly be ok with whatever I choose. I'll think about it for a while and be back and forth I'm sure. I can make lapua brass work for each. With the 260 I wouldn't have to resize which would be a plus. The 7-08 would have more factory ammo available which could be a plus. I'm just getting all of my reloading stuff together so I'll be taking on learning how to reload too. Hopefully factory ammo won't be necessary in the near future but having it available if need be wouldn't be bad.

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You're on the right track. Between those two, I would honestly recommend the 6.5 caliber. The .260 and 6.5 CM are ballistic twins. Hornady has match ammo for around $20 on the CM. It's worth a look if you're starting from scratch on both. The Hornady 6.5 brass has gotten good reviews from what I've seen. Either way, the .260 will do you fine as well. If you're reloading, just stock up and factory won't matter.

It's just nice having quality ammo cheaply available since I'm sure there will be times you just don't want to load before you shoot. I say that because I just bought some 6.5 Grendel ammofor that exact reason:)

6.5 X 55 will give you more than the 260 and 6.5 Creedmore, without resorting to a WSM case.

Dean