12 f/try 308 or rebarrel?

Long time lurker here and could use some advice.

I have a 110 in 223, varmint barrel and plastic stock topped with a cheapo Tasco 6-24x42 Target/Varmint. I reload too.

My son just turned 17 and asked me if we could build or buy a long range rifle to shoot 600+ yards.

Before kids, in the 80's & early 90's, I owned wildcats and shot 300 - 600 yards. So, I have old experience.

I have about $1200 to play with. Do I rebuild the 223 into something else or go for a used f/tr? I have about 200 rounds on the 223.

I found this f/try for sale but not sure it's a fair price: "Home Virginia Rifles For Sale: Savage 12 F/TR 308 with Vortex Scope, badger 20 MOA base, etc.
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FOR SALE: SAVAGE 12 F/TR 308 WITH VORTEX SCOPE, BADGER 20 MOA BASE, ETC.
Price: $ 1,400
Up for sale is my Savage 12 F/TR in 308. It is a tack driving rifle. I shoot Norma Match 308 ammo in it that is $23 a box and get 1/2 MOA or better. I am selling the whole rig together..no piecing it out. It has the rifle, limbsaver, badger ordnance base, forget what rings but they are quality, vortex bubble level and the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 PA Riflescope (VPR-M-06MD) and a sun shade attachment. Total retail on this full loaded is $2250!"

Any advice? Rebarrel to 223AI 1:7twist and go for heavy vlds, or 6mm TCU? New stock and scope? I want something accurate, and relatively inexpensive to reload and able to reach out at least 600 yards.

Thanks,

Chris

i have both the savage f/tr in 308 and 223. both are fantastic rifles and both shoot 600 easily. Suprisingly the 80gr vlds i shoot out of the 223 perform better ballistically than the 168gr SMKs out of the 308 to 600 yards.

The 223 I have now isn't shooting consistently with hand loads. I have a good set of rings and once piece base, checked the action screws, but very inconsistent. I think it's either the stock with bipod or the scope. My son has gotten frustrated with it. That's one reason I was thinking about rebuilding it into something else, vs buying new.

I want to keep the cost of reloading down enough to be able to continue to shoot. Does the 223AI throat have enough room to chamber 80gr VLDs without touching the lands? (Like a 223 Wylde?)

I could take the money and invest in a good stock, barrel, and scope? I like the F/TR but I'm not sure the Viper scope on it is that great, and not sure what the fair market value is for what the owner is selling. I was thinking about 50% of retail for a gun and accessories that has had 600 rounds down the pipe.

Chris

while you're thinking about this the AI will kick you out of F-TR class and put you in open class. I would start out changing the stock you have now to a good one. If need be after that i would change the barrel. Money saved equals good scope.

I've been looking for a ranges near us that hold F/TR matches, and none seem very close. We're in southwest Virginia, and it's slim pick'ins around here. It would be nice to find a place to shoot >100 yards. I need to think about stocks, and scopes. I keep reading good things about the SWFA SS scopes.

Chris

The experence I have with Vortex scopes is extremely positive. I have several of the scope you have, and out to 1000 yds. they do a good job for me , I don't shoot F class and the only compliant I have is I wish the Viper had a little more power as age is catching up with me.

If possible, I would try and mount a different scope on the rifle to see if that makes a difference on your 223.
A brand new Savage F/TR in 308 can be had for around $1100. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/43546
Vortex scope at $459 http://swfa.com/Vortex-65-20x50-Vipe...pe-P13286.aspx
Vortex bubble level $34.99 http://swfa.com/Vortex-30mm-Bubble-Level-P44607.aspx
Badger Ordinance Rail: $156 http://swfa.com/Badger-Ordnance-Maxi...ail-P1992.aspx
Rings: He says they are high quality rings but doesnt list who made them. Good rings can be had for ~$60

Sounds like a good deal for what he's selling.

I thought it was an ok deal. I was trying to decide if I would get more bang for the buck if I rebarreled my 223 to 6.5CM or maybe 223AI + Chaote Tactical stock + SWFA Scope.

Does anyone have .223AI barrels in stock that I could load VLD Bergers? My factory varmint barrel has about 200 rounds through it. Is it worth rechambering to ai? If so, can anyone here do it?

Maybe 28" with 1:7 or 1:8 twist? I would also need a barrel nut wrench and headspace gauges.

I think we"ll rebuild this puppy...

Give Jim at Apache Gunworks and talk with him. He is a great guy and full of knowledge and makes top notch barrels on whatever brand of blank you wish to pay for. I have had him make several barrels for me on Green Mountain Blanks and all have been real tack drivers. IIRC he has the 223AI reamer and he can throat it to basically whatever length you want. He does top notch work and will make it how you want, and his prices are good too.

Definitely update that plastic stock, if you are shooting with a bipod that will cause you some headaches, and try some other glass. Both of those are common culprits of grouping issues.

If it were me, I would try different glass first. I would also let someone else shoot the rifle before I wrote the rifle off.

I second the motion on changing the stock to solve the inconsistency issue.

Is it worthwhile rechambering the factory barrel to 223AI? What would that typically cost? or what about Wylie? The only problem is this barrel has a 1:9 and combined with the short throat, I can't stabilize over 69gr. Though I know that my best groups were Sierra 69gr BTHP match on XBR8208 23.4gr.

Chris

F/TR is the cheapest class to shoot equipment wise. A "spec" class of sorts. The 223/5.56x45and the 308/ 7.62x51 in unaltered forms are the only to chamberings allowed in that class.

If you were to chamber 223 AI you would be forced into F/Open. In that class you would be competing with some chamberings that are tough to compete against with a 22 caliber cartridge.

Your rifle can be altered to shoot the 308 chambering with a handfull of parts more than likely. a quality; bipod, rear rest, scope and stock is currently all you need to go shoot a match.

The value of the combination you are considering depends greatly on the model of the scope that is packaged with the rifle. Some Vortex scopes are worth more than $1500 and some are worth less than $100.

After looking at the closest F/TR matches, it's not an option for us. We'll have to stick to the local 100m local range, and friend's farms, (if possible). I still keep coming back to the 6x45 and 6TCU. Both are real interesting. I like the selection of 6mm bullets in the 85 - 105gr range. Anyone have any experience with either?

Chris

While I contemplate my cartridge choice, what's the biggest bang for the buck on scopes? I'm 46, bad eyes, will shoot 100yds - 600 (hopefully). I would like a scope that has eye relief that isn't super critical - the Tasco is very, very sensitive from 8x up to 24x. We will be shooting mainly from a bench, though I might get to work in some coyote hunting later this year. I used to call them in back when I built primitive bows, a lifetime ago.

Thanks,

Chris

I have been calling my 223 by the wrong model. I think it is a model 12fv. It looks identical to the 12fv on the Savage website. It was unfired and in the box when I purchased it from a private individual. He had told me it was a model 110.

12FV is normally a good model. I have had 2 so far in the 223 (and also 2 in 204, 1 in 22-250, and a 308 that I'll never sell or take apart cuz its that good) and both were real shooters. The older ones had real crappy stocks on them, but the newer ones from the last 6 years or so had a better plastic stock that was much stiffer than the old one. The newer stocks have a wider fore end and were normally more generous on the free float around the barrel. Factory barrels are often shooters and rechambering may not be a bad idea.

I would really look at trying a different scope, and be sure to check your bases for movement. Often times the screws seem tight, but are actually bottoming out and allowing the bases to move slightly. I have only had 1 tasco that was good enough for me to keep on anything other than a 22LR and that was one of the old Japanese made models that were actually pretty well built.

As to the 6x45, it is a real practical round and easy to neck up 223 brass for it. I have been planning on doing a 6x45-AI for some time, but something else to build always pops up. get ahold of a member here by the name of 5spd. He has a 6x45 that uses to hunt coyotes out in CO or WY IIRC and reports great success with it. He would probably be the best help on that cartridge.

Thanks for the feedback. I have checked the bases and they are tight.

What started this endeavor was a few weeks ago, a nice guy at the range let my son send 5 rounds down range with his custom 308.

It had a stock like a Choate sniper pro (but metal), target barrel, Premier scope, and my son put 5 rounds inside a quarter the first time he touched it.

Sam was blown away, and that started it all. My problem is that I don't have that kind of cash!