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Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Ok guys, I have worked out a way to reduce the bolt lift on the new indicator bolts. I did some testing on an older bolt today and how it is designed they will work on either new indicator bolts or older bolts equally well.
I still have to do some more testing but as it stands right now it seems good. I measured the bolt lift on my gun that has a clipped firing pin spring and these are the results:
Without anything the bolt measured a little over 5 1/2 lbs.
With the old bolt lift kit (38 special case) it measured 4 1/2 lbs.
With the new version it measured 2 3/4-3 1/2 pounds (testing was a little harder because the lift was light)
I tried with the old bolt lift kit and the new one together and it was heavier so I went back to using only the new version.
I still need to do some more testing and I have sent out a few samples to people for them to try. I am going to see if they are getting the same results as I am. It requires NO modification to the gun and the gun can be returned to factory condition in about 3 minutes. I fired off handloads as well as factory ammo and it was 100% reliable.
Another thing is that the new version allows the bolt handle to raise about 30 degrees (almost horizontal) before you start to feel the spring tension. This should help with sticky cases because in the first 30 or so degrees of the bolt movement you are only fighting extraction and not spring tension as well.
When ever I feel comfortable with them I will randomly send them to people if I think it will help them. Please do not swamp me with PM's as I am not sending any out within the next 2-3 weeks. I will be waiting on the machinist to make more because I only have 6 test samples left and those are probably already spoken for. As with the 38 special cases these are going to be FREE as well. I will not accept any money for them when I do start sending them to people.
These work better than the 38 special version I made and have been giving away.
Dolomite
Edited to add:
Savageboy and GaCop are two who have one of these on the way. Hopefully they will chime in once they are able to fully test them.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Very interesting. I'll be interested in one when available.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
me too you just cant beat gordon s prices. i wonder what prinicpal he is using to make a profit on these.
bob
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
it just came to me he is making up the loses in volume an old trick
best regards
bob
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
its the old loss leader trick ;)
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnTom
its the old loss leader trick ;)
???
No clue what you mean.
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
hey dolomite,
would gladly pay for that much lift reduction.... Bill
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
A loss leader is a product sold at an unusually low price in order to attract people hoping they'll buy something else of higher profit margin at the same time.
That said, I'll gladly try one out if I may :)
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
When mine gets here, I will give a full report. Dolomite isn't looking for anything else. He really likes helping people. He has done several things- trigger jobs on my 10/22, etc. for no charge.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Making money or not is not important to me, Dolomite has his own reasons.
What is Important to me is the fact that he spends his time and money
to IMPROVE the Savage rifle and community.
That being said, I hereby award Dolomite ONE MILLION "ATTABOYS"
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wintermute76
A loss leader is a product sold at an unusually low price in order to attract people hoping they'll buy something else of higher profit margin at the same time.
That said, I'll gladly try one out if I may :)
Thats is kind of funny seeing how I am not selling any of these and don't plan on selling anything. All the stuff I have sent out to people didn't cost them anything, not even postage. These are costing me both time and money yet I don't mind because it is helping others out. I have my reasons for doing this and it is definitely not for financial gain. Not saying I have a ton of money because I don't, I just like helping out people.
I will definitely be letting people know by PM if I have one with the name on it. As it stands right now I am making a few last minute design changes based on the batch I received today. The next batch should be picture perfect. I had to do a little bit of fitting to the batch I received today because I chose tighter tolerances than I really needed.
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
gordon
not in anyway trying to demean you just having a little fun. there is an old saying in the grocery business a business known for loosing money that your competition is using the polish principal to make up loses again not to offend anyone.
that they make their profit losses by losing even more money. what you do is generous to the extreme and i know you do it because you love it!!
bob
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdaddy
hey dolomite,
would gladly pay for that much lift reduction.... Bill
+1 and would be happy to donate to your R&D budget 8)
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Sounds good, be interesting to see how the new one works. I would be interested in one when you get it finished up.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
I too would like to have one of your new lift kits, and I, like many others, appreciate what you do, thanks. Bobby
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
...I'll throw my hat in the ring too... ;)..Never tried 1 yet..
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
i know i'm kind of new here, but is there any chance i could get in on this too? i just got an email from SSS this morning that my stuff is ready to ship, so hopefully I can start my build next weekend. :D
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
I'm looking forward to receiving and testing one of Gordon's bolt lift kits. If they end up working as well as the prototype, he should patent it.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Dolomite, I don't need a bolt lift kit but I just wanted to say that your interest in Savage firearms and your willingness to help fellow shooters is admirable. Thanks.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Shot
...I'll throw my hat in the ring too... ;)..Never tried 1 yet..
PM me your address please so I can add you to the list of testers.
Thanks
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
I'd love to give this a go. I have a 110 that could use a little help.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Ok guys I have everyone I need to test this new idea. I will be sending them out hopefully by Saturday, depending on how I feel. I think I have a good representation of all the Savage actions out there, everything from just bought to older actions.
These members are going to get the initial batch to test:
wbm
LeeH
Lefty Savage
Peter_Kirch
Blue Avenger
savageboy
GaCop
The only thing I ask is that when you do receive them do not post pictures. It isn't the fact I am going to be selling them or worried about patents. I am just worried that an unforseen flaw might crop up. I do not want others to try to duplicate these when there might be a problem and potentially injuring themselves or others (I highly doubt it).
When I get feedback from these posters and all seems good, I'll order another batch of probably 20 or so for now and randomly send them to people. Again no need to PM me about it as I will just randomly pick people (my inbox has been overun over this posting). The lead time on the machinist is about 2 weeks so at a bare minimum it is probably going to be March before I get anymore in.
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Sounds Great, Dolomite...looking forward to the feedback.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Domolite Supafly,
How are you checking the lift pounds on the bolt?
Are you suggesting that everyone needs to cut there firing pin spring down to use your lift kit? Without going into theories and formulas of sorts, doesn't that go against most common practices of reducing trigger pull?
When using your lift kit, you will also need to shorten the BAS accordingly?
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliderule
Dolomite Supafly,
How are you checking the lift pounds on the bolt?
I actually used an electronic fish scale, hardly scientific but it worked to prove to me this might be worthwhile to pursue. I was able to "hook" it then tested each setup numerous times getting an average. I didn't just do one test and call it good. Also, I had someone test between this and a gun without it, their response was that it felt lighter as well. There definitely is a difference in how the bolt lift is both in weight and function.
Are you suggesting that everyone needs to cut there firing pin spring down to use your lift kit? Without going into theories and formulas of sorts, doesn't that go against most common practices of reducing trigger pull?
One has nothing to do with the other, the bolt lift weight has nothing to do with trigger pull weight. This kit will not reduce or affect the trigger pull at all, only the force needed to lift the bolt after firing. The biggest complaint most people have against these guns is the bolt lift which is why I am trying to fix it. The reason why my spring was cut was because I had modified the gun previously, not specifically for use with this mod. Also, it is common practice to shorten the springs on these guns as a means to reduce bolt lift weight, nothing new or novel about that idea. With this new version there is no need to cut or modify anything.
When using your lift kit, you will also need to shorten the BAS accordingly? No need to modify anything on your firearm, just install my part and go. Installing it is a snap and is no harder than changing the bolt handle.
This is still in the infancy stage of testing. I just want to make sure it is good before I have more made and start handing them out. As I said before these are going to be free. I won't be able to hand them out to everyone on this board but hopefully I can help out some people. I have my reasons for doing this and it definitely is not for any type of financial gain.
Thanks for the questions
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Please keep me posted on this as this is a product I will be interested in.
Thanks for your hard work, it is MUCH appreciated.
Thanks,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
This sounds like a nice little replacement part. Would love a chance to try one. Or to purchase one once you are done testing.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
...Dolomite drop me a note to my message box..Being a standard mem. I can not initiate the first contact..Thank's... :)
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Dolomite,
Not trying to steal anything here, but my girlfriends Model 12FVSS 223 could test if you wanted a female shooter's input.
Just an offer and not just trying to get in.
jim
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Wow, that sounds really cool. Hope I can try one out when you get it finished up.
Mike
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bo
Just wanted to let the testers know they are in the mail. Hopefully we can start getting feedback by next week so I can have some more made.
Peter_kirch you have the old version as well as a new version on the way. Not sure which one will get there first. Use the old version if you can, if not just pass it onto another member here please.
Thanks again
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
I am new to the Savage world having just purchased a pc10 in .308. fired about 100 rounds through it. The bolt lift stiffness is also a concern with mine and would be very interested in your kit. Thanks
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
I'll take the old version if he can't use it. ;D
I'll give you a full write up.
Thanks,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc_mwroseberry
I'll take the old version if he can't use it. ;D
I'll give you a full write up.
Thanks,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
Everyone is pretty aware of the old version so no need for a write up on those. As for the new design I am waiting on feed back so I can improve the next batch. After that I am still trying to work out a fair way to slowly hand these out to people who need them. As I said they will be free but I am not going to go broke equipping everyone here with the new version.
Who knows I might do a free give away once a month and possibly sell some in the classifieds for those that don't want to wait or take a chance. Haven't really decided on selling yet but I am definitely going to be giving some away just not enough for everybody here because that would definitly put me in the poor house.
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
I sure would like one for my model 10 SA 300WSM. Loco
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Dolomite, I read on other threads that the screw has to be cut down or the sleeve needs to be altered and then some one says it's a quick fix with just drop in and go. I'd like to hear from you just what needs to be done to make this thing work. If it is a drop in I'll go for it. Have plenty of .38 casings and ball bearings, even made up a few, but still reluctant to tear things apart if requires modifications. Even at 76 yrs. still able to lift the bolt without too much trouble but would give this thing a tinkers try if not too complicated. Quick
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
From the original post:
I still need to do some more testing and I have sent out a few samples to people for them to try. I am going to see if they are getting the same results as I am. It requires NO modification to the gun and the gun can be returned to factory condition in about 3 minutes. I fired off handloads as well as factory ammo and it was 100% reliable.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Dolomite, 'tis a great thing you are doing for the members of this site and the Savage community! I hate to add to the "swamping" you are getting but I have scrounged about 30 38spl cases I would gladly let you have for your endeavor. If down the road any BLK's become available, I would be interested for my older 110FP and spankin' new 10FCP-K. PM me with your address and I will get the 38spl cases out to you. Thank you, Jeff.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
My new design does not involve the use of 38 special casings. The new design is appearing to give better results as well as be easier for the end user to install.
Again, there are two different versions, one using 38 special cases which has been around for a long time and my new bolt lift kit that doesn't.
My new design bolt lift kit does not need any modifications to the firearm to work, no grinding of the BAS or shortening of the cocking sleeve, just install the new part and enjoy. Forget about the 38 special casings for the new design as it does not use anything even remotely close to that design.
Hope this clears up any confusion.
Dolomite
And just to reiterate:
The new version requires no modifications to your firearm and is not based on the design that uses the 38 special casing
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
After that I am still trying to work out a fair way to slowly hand these out to people who need them. As I said they will be free but I am not going to go broke equipping everyone here with the new version.
Who knows I might do a free give away once a month and possibly sell some in the classifieds for those that don't want to wait or take a chance. Haven't really decided on selling yet but I am definitely going to be giving some away just not enough for everybody here because that would definitly put me in the poor house.
Dolomite
[/quote]
I think that you should give these lift kits to the nicest and most handsome people first. I am the nicest person in the entire state of Florida, and am so handsome that young girls cluster around me at the beach. And I'm only 72, not like that old 76 guy.
Just a suggestion.
Let me know if you need my address for ant reason.
joe (NICE) b.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
OH BOY!!!!....Guy's are getting Desperate!!!
BIG GRIN........
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Dolomite, Thank you for the latest info. Saved me a lot of grief and only cost me a few .38 cases and bearings. I will wait to see how your new idea comes out before tearing things apart. Hey 33050, there's to much snow here to be out at the beach. old 76 guy, Quick
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
I have a 10FCP-K with the crappiest bolt in the world and I can't wait to try one of these.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
It is going to be a while. I still need to get all the feedback from those that are testing. After that I am going to have to work out some sort of way to hand these out fairly.
I do not plan on selling them but I do not plan on going broke handing them out to everyone who owns a Savage either. I am just waiting to see how the testers feel.
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Dolomite
Would your bolt lift kit further improve a timed and trued action done at SSS???
Compatable with the Evolution trigger???
If Yes I'd like to beg borrow or buy one ;)
Gonna be running a Sav action in IBS Score shoots this season.
Looking to help it out as much as possible.
Hoping to prove Savage actions can compete.
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo191145
Dolomite
Would your bolt lift kit further improve a timed and trued action done at SSS???
Compatable with the Evolution trigger???
If Yes I'd like to beg borrow or buy one ;)
Gonna be running a Sav action in IBS Score shoots this season.
Looking to help it out as much as possible.
Hoping to prove Savage actions can compete.
One of the testers has a T&T'd action so we will see how these work together. I am hoping everyone who was sent one to test posts their results in this thread.
I have asked all the testers to be honest about their findings so the next batch will be better. I am not going to try to hide or sugar coat anything, if this works then great if not then I don't mind either because I am not doing this for financial gain anyways. So far in speaking with LeeH I have already made one improvement, not to the part itself but to the instructions I enclosed with all the parts.
It will still be a little while before I have the next batch in hand. Once I do have them in hand I will let everyone know.
Thanks for all the interest
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Hey Dolomite, send me your address and I'll send you money for one of these. I know you said you want to just give them away but I would be more than happy to pay you a very inflated price for one of these to help pay for the next batch or whatever.
Thanks
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Lover
Hey Dolomite, send me your address and I'll send you money for one of these. I know you said you want to just give them away but I would be more than happy to pay you a very inflated price for one of these to help pay for the next batch or whatever.
Thanks
Cost isn't my biggest concern, making sure nothing bad can come from using it is my biggest concern. I am not going to take money for anything, especially for something I do not have in hand. I have seen it happen all to often on the internet. People prepay then something happens and I couldn't live with it if something like that did happen.
I will be waiting until I get feedback from all the testers before I send the specs for the next batch. The next batch is pretty much alredy paid for so paying for it isn't the issue right now.
Thanks for all the interest, I know it is slow coming but it is coming. I just want to make sure they are going to be safe.
Dolomite
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Dolomite, put me on your list if you need anymore testers. I actually have a Stockade lift kit sitting here I didnt put in yet, so if you wanna compare it to that also let me know. I can mail it to you or you can mail me one of yours, doesnt matter.
mike
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Re: Bolt lift kit for new bolts with cocking idicators as well as older style bolts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdog06
Dolomite, put me on your list if you need anymore testers. I actually have a Stockade lift kit sitting here I didnt put in yet, so if you wanna compare it to that also let me know. I can mail it to you or you can mail me one of yours, doesnt matter.
mike
On my particular gun my kit is lighter than the Stockade kit. Not saying you will have the same results but on mine is was lighter.
Thanks
Dolomite