Printable View
As most of you know I frequent SSF often:
Subject: Sierra Match Kings VS Bergers
On every site I go to, SMK's seem to rule! You will find very little information on Berger's, but will find tons on SMK's and there proven sucess.
I have no problem using SMK's and love them, but I was just wondering about the BERGER's!!!!
What is your feelings!
Your battle is with history.
The SMK's have been around for quite some time...in VOLUME. Biggest user is the military. Would venture to say 30-50% of ex military are still involved in the firearm sport, therefore, their experience with the SMK's fostered continued use of them.
Are they a good bullet, yes. Are there other bullets out there just as good or better? Yes...just go find them yourself. :)
I have used a few different types of the Bergers and SMKs. I find that a good load with either is hard to beat accuracy wise, with anyone's bullet. I think that when it comes down to it, Burger tends to offer a little better b.c. on many of their bullets when compairing like caliber/weight with Sierra. To be honset with you, I started with Sierras, tried a few others including Barnes, Berger, etc, and have found myself going back to Sierra, except for (literally) one or two particular rounds I like to fire. With Sierras, the accuracy is there, and they are generally cheaper than manufacturers like Berger. .308 dia 168gr HPBT from Sierra are $29.99/100, $42.99/100 Berger.
Now, if you want to hunt medium/large game with the same bullets you kill paper with, Berger is the only way to go IMO. Or, if you just have your heart set on using Bergers, go for it. You will not be disappointed!
Sierra Matchkings use a secant nose (ogive) while the Berger VLD's (and most Hornady Amax) use a longer tangent ogive. That means the SMK's are more tolerant of a jump to the lands while giving superb accuracy, and thus can be loaded to magazine length and shoot very well.
I think very highly of Berger bullets, but the long tangent ogive means that you have to fiddle with the seating depth a lot more to achieve very high accuracy. Personally, I do not like loading so that the bullet is in the lands. That's my opinion on why I think SMK's are so popular. That said, I like both VLD's and Amax bullets too.
I have cut my teeth of Sierra Match Kings, they are a great bullet for a mass produced product. I like SMK's because they are usually cheaper than Berger. I use different bullets and find what the barrel likes. With my 22br, and 6x47 Lapua Berger bullets have proven to shoot far better than SMK's. I have never shot a SMK out of my 6PPC, but have shot a few Berger's through it. I thought in my old 243 the Berger 95gr shot better than the SMK 95, but it was too close to tell so I used the cheaper bullet. In my old 204 Ruger I found nothing that shoots as good as a SMK. I sway both ways.
One bullet I have seen that out preforms them both in every gun I have tried is Starke's. It is a shame that Clint is no longer making bullets. I am finding that BIB bullets are about on par with Starke's. I believe both of them use Berger j4 jackets. One bullet maker I have never had good luck with is Hornady.
Hmmm....Quote:
Originally Posted by 82boy
>>>
That means the SMK's are more tolerant of a jump to the lands while giving superb accuracy, and thus can be loaded to magazine length and shoot very well.
>>>
How about just secant vs tangent, same thing with JLK VLD's, great bullets but you shoot VLD's in a Service Rifle and you're bummed. I find the Nosler 168 308's shoot pretty much the same as SMK 168's in 308 bolt guns, but I use the 175 SMK's in my 3006 Garands for High Power.
I'm not hardly good enough to shoot up to my rifles and ammo, so it doesn't really matter to me, but VLD's are rare where I shoot matches. The guy that owns JLK now did win the '07 Missouri State shoot with his 308 Garand, but I recall that was a Wilson barrel so probably a better chamber for VLD's than USGI.
I wonder how much of the perceived difference in 308 bullets is comparing 175 Bergers/VLD's to 168 tangent. Tom Luhmann built my match Garands, and he commented back about 06 that the only reason Sierra still made 168's is that people would buy them - the 175's were the only way to go. Given Sierra has introduced new 155's and 135's recently, they obviously don't feel the 168 is as good as they can do.
Shucks, I like the flat base 53 gr 223's, what do I know!?!? I do have some homework on JLK VLD's in 175/308 and 75/223 sitting in boxes but those are just OCW series to run, I'm not at the seating depth stage yet.
Regards,
Brian in CA
I just loaded a bunch of Bergers (308) and SMK's, I am trying IMR4064 and Varget powder anywhere from .005 in the lands to .005 off the lands, some on the lands.
I will let you know when I fire them off!!!!
brianinca, Berger does make several BT (non-VLD) bullets in .308, suggest you check their website.
I have never shot any other bullet as accurate and as consistant as .308 168grn SMK's.
uj
Berger's cost a lot more than SMK's.