Model 10FP Barrel Condition

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10-08-2012, 08:17 PM
uswaldronz

Model 10FP Barrel Condition

Well hello. I am new to this great site and there is a ton of great information. Definitely interesting reading and I have a lot to learn...

I recently picked up a 10FP used. Shoots OK, nothing fantastic compared to my buddies FCP-K of which I could get a 0.29" 3 shot group at 100yards. The best I have done with mine is about a .54" group.

I had spent some time testing some different factory ammo and was OK with where I was at regarding groups. I put some Brown Wolf SP through it just to see where it landed compared just in case the occasion arrived should I need it. It put an OK group (much better than I was anticipating for 140gr ammo) and went back to my Federal GMM 175gr. It started flinging them all over out to about 1.75". I took a look at the barrel and found it looked like crap at the muzzle and just figured it to be these Wolf lacquered rounds and decided to go clean.

I needed to get some copper removal solution and picked up some Butch's Bore Shine. It removed the copper fouling but I am left with this residue in the barrel. I can't post pictures yet but is quite dark looking while the rest of the barrel looking from the breech is very shiny.

I have some Tubbs Final Finish loaded ammunition on the way to see if this could help condition the bore to get rid of this. As always there are reviews for and against but I figured it can't hurt at this point.

Any thoughts? Am I over reacting?

Thanks,

Matthew
10-08-2012, 08:22 PM
rattfink

Is your friends rifle bedded? Have other mods?
And man.....54" groups. Most (If not all) manufacturers would be thrilled if all of their rifles could do that when they're brand new!
10-08-2012, 08:28 PM
darkker

YES, you are over thinking this. When you shoot groups that tight... Don't start shooting sand-paper lined bullets down the barrel. And stop shooting Yellow Duck ammo for groups, That is plinking ammo.
NEED PICS!!! I almost wonder if you are looking at the blueing....
10-08-2012, 08:28 PM
drybean

Wow no bad talking about 1/2 groups
you could sell it in the classifieds

drybean
10-08-2012, 08:29 PM
uswaldronz

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattfink

Is your friends rifle bedded? Have other mods?
And man.....54" groups. Most (If not all) manufacturers would be thrilled if all of their rifles could do that when they're brand new!

Mikes FCP-K has a darn nice scope and has run the Final Finish through it. Other than that I believe it to be stock. He is also loading his own and does a fine job at it but none of his recipies would help mine come close to where it used to be as with the GMM 168 gr, GMM 175gr and some XM118LR.

I have just paid up the $12 so hopefully here soon I can post a picture of it.
10-08-2012, 08:44 PM
uswaldronz

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkker

YES, you are over thinking this. When you shoot groups that tight... Don't start shooting sand-paper lined bullets down the barrel. And stop shooting Yellow Duck ammo for groups, That is plinking ammo.
NEED PICS!!! I almost wonder if you are looking at the blueing....

Right about the Duck ammo! Never again.... I have not been able to get it back to even close to the original size groups which is what I am fining most concerning even with the same GMM ammo.

If I can post a pic I agree it would be very useful but so far it keeps saying I am not able to.

It says " You may not post attachments " Any thoughts as to why I can't post pics?

Thanks.
10-08-2012, 09:16 PM
rattfink

Yeah dude, 1/2 inch groups in a second hand rifle...I wouldn't worry about a single thing. Sounds like a darn good shooter.
10-08-2012, 09:29 PM
big honkin jeep

You may be way over reacting and just need to shoot it after cleaning to get the groups to settle down again. This may take a few rounds to accomplish a decent seasoning. I have a couple of rifles that are real finicky about being too clean. Sometimes it may take 40 rounds to get em to settle down again after cleaning.
Sounds weird but that's just the way it is with some rifles.
10-08-2012, 09:37 PM
uswaldronz

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattfink

Yeah dude, 1/2 inch groups in a second hand rifle...I wouldn't worry about a single thing. Sounds like a darn good shooter.

If it got back to those size groups I would be a really happy camper for sure. But it's not back. Still at 1.75", far from where it was, which is why I'm concerned. I definately don't want to come across as being too (insert bad word here) but I am thinking the "stuff" in the barrel is the culprit.
10-08-2012, 09:43 PM
rattfink

Ah I missed the part where your accuracy dropped off.
10-09-2012, 06:09 AM
uswaldronz

OK, I have a picture now.

As you can see there is something there that is just not supposed to be. This photo was taken after the bore shine and after many patches put through until the last one came out clean.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...vage10fp2.jpg/
10-09-2012, 08:17 AM
thomae

Here's the quote with the picture correctly displayed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uswaldronz

OK, I have a picture now.

As you can see there is something there that is just not supposed to be. This photo was taken after the bore shine and after many patches put through until the last one came out clean.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/31/savage10fp2.jpg
10-09-2012, 10:05 AM
short round

Might try JB bore compound from Brownells. Did you use bore brush, or patches only ?
10-09-2012, 12:06 PM
tobnpr

I can't tell from the pic if that's just blueing, or scratches/abrasion of the metal.

Gunsmiths recommend the "Q-Tip" test...

Take one, rub it along the inside of the muzzle. Do it along the crown also.

Did it grab any fibers?

And yeah, you're overreaching...

1/2 minute groups from a factory stick, ESPECIALLY with factory ammo, is fantastic.

Expecting more is absurd.
10-09-2012, 07:00 PM
ellobo

crown

Hard to say but not knowing how many rounds through that barrel you may have copper buildup. What I see is more than copper. A cheap test is run some copper remover through the barrel and see if it comes out blue. If so, you have copper. If What I see IS copper there sure as he2sticks a lot of it.
Your picture shows a crown that doesn't look too pure.

El Lobo
10-25-2012, 08:05 PM
uswaldronz

Well, I fixed the problem....

http://imageshack.us/a/img24/9749/tg...ydxm118lr1.jpg

Replaced the barrel with a new "takeoff" barrel from Jim at NSS and it is as good as new! I was using some 175gr XM118LR ammo so very happy with what I have so far. This was five shots at 100 yards.

Still can't figure out what is going on with the old barrel. Most likely it was corroded and when I picked it up I didn't see it for the regular buildup.

And then I picked up an Axis .308 locally. As recieved it was doing about 1.75" groups. With a little trigger work and setting the stock to the action (very crudely I might add) it did this...

http://imageshack.us/a/img440/5656/102112axis1tgt.jpg

Yes, it is a keeper. 3 shots at 100 yards with the same XM118LR ammo. I am liking this stuff but I wish it was a whole lot less expensive! I can't wait to try Mikes recipies!

Thanks for all the input.

Matthew
10-27-2012, 08:21 PM
ellobo

Another thought. If as you suspect it is some compound from that ammo, like lacquer, put some lacquer thinner in a container and put the rifle muzzle down in it overnight then run some patches through it to see if its gone or loose.

El Lobo
10-27-2012, 08:49 PM
uswaldronz

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellobo

Another thought. If as you suspect it is some compound from that ammo, like lacquer, put some lacquer thinner in a container and put the rifle muzzle down in it overnight then run some patches through it to see if its gone or loose.

El Lobo

El Lobo, the more I look at it the more I believe it to be corrosion from the previous owner. It was not cleaned when I picked it up and my guess it was "hiding" under there.

I have given it a pretty darned good cleaning even with some pretty good brake cleaner, Butches bore shine and a crap load of patches over a brass brush (not lacquer thinner though) and it looks like it has removed everything except what you see in that photo. OK, really, I have cleaned the crap out of it....

Oh well... live and learn. Going to try it tomorrow with that new barrel at about 300 yards and see what it can do (maybe that should be what "I" can do!).

Have not decided what I'm going to do with that barrel yet but the thought is at this point is take a couple of inches off and see how that works. I have the tools now for the swap over and it all went very smoothly so one of these days i might just get around to doing that.

Matthew
10-27-2012, 10:38 PM
marineldomajor5902

Have seen this before, looks like moly that was not cleaned out and copper shot over it and built up. Try something that will remove moly and watch what happens.
10-28-2012, 08:11 AM
uswaldronz

Quote:

Originally Posted by marineldomajor5902

Have seen this before, looks like moly that was not cleaned out and copper shot over it and built up. Try something that will remove moly and watch what happens.

Any suggestions for a product to remove the Moly?