New to reloading .. question about bullet seating depth

Ok...I'm new to reloading. I'm loading 6.5 creedmoor for my 12 LRP. I'm using the Hornady oal length gauge and trying to figure out the proper bullet seating depth. If I'm using the oal gauge correctly , and figuring a .03 jump to the lands, I'm coming up with a cartridge that is 2.22 inches from the ogive to base using a Hornady comparator, but the overall cartridge length comes out over the maximum of 2.8 as listed in the Hornady manual. Does this sound right? If not can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks

Your over all Length could be 3” long,(it won’t) it just matters were the ogive meets the lands. You are doing it correctly with the ogive check.
The bullet tip length doesn’t matter other then magazine length restrictions, most of us bench/precision shooters single feed anyways.

I'm not confident that I'm using the oal guage correctly....I'm pushing it gently til it basically stops but how do I know if I've gone too far?

I always do the measuring with a few different bullets then average them to smooth any errors in production or my measuring techniques.

Sounds OK. I have a 143 gr Hornady ELD-X load for my .260 Rem that is 2.900" OAL with a 0.015" jump, or 0.10" longer than the SAAMI length. As long as it fits the magazine that is not a problem. Savage was very forward thinking and gave me 3.00" to play with in the short-action Model 11. Thanks guys!

As far as using it correctly - All you can really do is press it up snug. If you occasionally have the bullet stick in the throat you are likely doing it correctly.

But now here's something to blow your mind. The Modified Cartridge Hornady sells may not be anything like the fired cases from YOUR chamber. What you want to do is get the headspace comparator ($8?) and check a fired case against the Modified Case and add that difference to your OAL. Because a reloaded case is snug against the shoulder but only IF the ejector stub is pressing it there. It will most likely still set back 0.004+/- against the bolt face when fired. Maybe even get a set of competition seating dies if you prefer to full length resize fired brass.

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Originally Posted by Stumpkiller

Sounds OK. I have a 143 gr Hornady ELD-X load for my .260 Rem that is 2.900" OAL with a 0.015" jump, or 0.10" longer than the SAAMI length. As long as it fits the magazine that is not a problem. Savage was very forward thinking and gave me 3.00" to play with in the short-action Model 11. Thanks guys!

As far as using it correctly - All you can really do is press it up snug. If you occasionally have the bullet stick in the throat you are likely doing it correctly.

But now here's something to blow your mind. The Modified Cartridge Hornady sells may not be anything like the fired cases from YOUR chamber. What you want to do is get the headspace comparator ($8?) and check a fired case against the Modified Case and add that difference to your OAL. Because a reloaded case is snug against the shoulder but only IF the ejector stub is pressing it there. It will most likely still set back 0.004+/- against the bolt face when fired. Maybe even get a set of competition seating dies if you prefer to full length resize fired brass.

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Yep... already doing just that...there is a great vid on YouTube explaining how to figure the difference between the modified case and your resized brass... thanks for throwing that out there!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stumpkiller

Sounds OK. I have a 143 gr Hornady ELD-X load for my .260 Rem that is 2.900" OAL with a 0.015" jump, or 0.10" longer than the SAAMI length. As long as it fits the magazine that is not a problem. Savage was very forward thinking and gave me 3.00" to play with in the short-action Model 11. Thanks guys!

As far as using it correctly - All you can really do is press it up snug. If you occasionally have the bullet stick in the throat you are likely doing it correctly.

But now here's something to blow your mind. The Modified Cartridge Hornady sells may not be anything like the fired cases from YOUR chamber. What you want to do is get the headspace comparator ($8?) and check a fired case against the Modified Case and add that difference to your OAL. Because a reloaded case is snug against the shoulder but only IF the ejector stub is pressing it there. It will most likely still set back 0.004+/- against the bolt face when fired. Maybe even get a set of competition seating dies if you prefer to full length resize fired brass.

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I use a fired case that has been sized for reloading ie the shoulder set back .002". Then use the comparator and check the difference between the case I'm going to seat my bullets in against the Hornady case. and add the difference. If you just use a fired unsized case to compare against you'll be getting bogus measurements.

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Originally Posted by Butch

I'm not confident that I'm using the oal guage correctly....I'm pushing it gently til it basically stops but how do I know if I've gone too far?

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And that's the problem with using this gage as designed, you're really guessing about the results. Some say that with a lot of practice they can get consistent results, and in reality you're only establishing a repeatable starting point for load development. But that's not good enough for me, SO....

Here is the method I developed for using this tool. Take the LNL modified case and neck or full length size it and seat a bullet a bit long.
Screw it on the tool and slide it into the chamber with a firm push. Then retract. Any tendency to stick is an indication the bullet is in the lands.
Go back to your seating die and seat the bullet slightly deeper and repeat the process until you feel no tendency to stick. As you get close, you'll be moving the bullet a thou or two, and you'll feel the very light stickiness just before you hit no stick at all as you gradually seat the bullet deeper.
No stick upon retraction is free of the lands.
There is no guesswork with this method, and it is repeatable down to .001". I keep that as a dummy cartridge to re-establish distance to lands as the barrel wears, and label it with date, bullet, OAL dimension for future reference.

This idea gradually morphed into using my FF brass, drilling and tapping the flash hole to fit a cleaning rod. Works exactly the same, but no added math to account for differences in base to shoulder measurements, and no added costs for LNL modified brass.

[QUOTE=Texas10;429491]And that's the problem with using this gage as designed, you're really guessing about the results. Some say that with a lot of practice they can get consistent results, and in reality you're only establishing a repeatable starting point for load development. But that's not good enough for me, SO....

Here is the method I developed for using this tool. Take the LNL modified case and neck or full length size it and seat a bullet a bit long.
Screw it on the tool and slide it into the chamber with a firm push. Then retract. Any tendency to stick is an indication the bullet is in the lands.
Go back to your seating die and seat the bullet slightly deeper and repeat the process until you feel no tendency to stick. As you get close, you'll be moving the bullet a thou or two, and you'll feel the very light stickiness just before you hit no stick at all as you gradually seat the bullet deeper.
No stick upon retraction is free of the lands.
There is no guesswork with this method, and it is repeatable down to .001". I keep that as a dummy cartridge to re-establish distance to lands as the barrel wears, and label it with date, bullet, OAL dimension for future reference.

This idea gradually morphed into using my FF brass, drilling and tapping the flash hole to fit a cleaning rod. Works exactly the same, but no added math to account for differences in base to shoulder measurements, and no added costs for LNL modified brass.[/QU

Are you then only neck sizing prior to reloading? Using only FF cases and then modifying for use on the Hornady tool will not be the same measurements IF a loader FL sizes cases and does the normal .001-.002" shoulder bump. When you bump the shoulder back .002" the neck moves back with it. I always size the FF case to the very same dimensions as the cases I am loading prior to drilling and tapping. That way I get a true reading and then there really is no math involved.

:thumb: I think Hornady still offers to modify (tap and thread for the comparator tool) a fired (non-resized) case you send them so it matches your chamber . . . mostly. Brass does stretch a bit and return after firing. Hopefully enough you can still chamber the "ideal" reloaded cartridge you end up with in any heat or during a dusty, dirty, snowy hunt.

I use a different method. I take a carbon fiber one-piece cleaning rod and attach a plastic jag (point filed flat). Close the bolt on rifle and push the cleaning rod from the muzzle to the breach. Once bottomed out on the bolt face, I mark the cleaning rod with tape or marker (tape allows you to square off the muzzle to keep measurements more consistant). Next, remove bolt from the rifle and seat bullet in the lands with a wooden dowel/wood pencil. Next take a measurement with the cleaning rod resting on the tip of the bullet from the muzzle. Place a second mark or piece of tape on the cleaning rod. Lastly, measure from marks/tape edges to find the maximum COAL for that particular bullet.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

To the OP: I think you are measuring correctly. In some chambers, a bullet seated close to the lands will be too long to fit in the magazine, and has to be single-loaded. The chamber on the factory Savage 6.5CM has a fairly long throat, and cartridge OAL can be extra long. I don't recommend getting too concerned with all the exact ways to measure distance to lands. Just get it in the ballpark, and do your load testing with various seating depths close to your measurement. One thing I do measure is the published bullet length compared to the length of the bullet you use to set your bullet seating die. Make an adjustment on that, so that your OAL is calculated based on the published bullet length. That way, you will be setting the bullet seating die to the same base-to-ogive length.

Thanks for all the help guys....loaded up the first batch today and hopefully the weather cooperates this weekend for a range day!!

Butch-

As you seem to be doing, concentrate on one thing at a time and keep everything else constant. There are over 20 variables, each one affecting your shots. Don't fiddle with two or more at a time lest you think it is one thing and it turns out to be another. Go Slow.

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Originally Posted by Fotheringill

Butch-

As you seem to be doing, concentrate on one thing at a time and keep everything else constant. There are over 20 variables, each one affecting your shots. Don't fiddle with two or more at a time lest you think it is one thing and it turns out to be another. Go Slow.

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Oh absolutely... this is my very first batch...at this time I'm actually more concerned about safety and just doing everything correctly, although I did vary charge loads and nothing else.... keeping good records and trying to be uniform with every round

The (old) method, the one used before all the tools came along, consisted of setting the seating die for a long bullet length.
Then seat a bullet in an unprimed empty case and chamber it in the gun, meaning let closing the bolt seat the bullet.
Then turn the die down till it touches the new seating depth, and then go about 1 turn more.
Take a match and smoke the bullet only, then reseat it in the gun and look for the rifeling marks on the bullet.
Repeat the smoking bullet routine/chambering until the marks are very faint, then about another half turn would be considered touching the rifeling.
No tools at all required other than a case and a bullet and of coarse the gun.
You can then play with seating depth by turning in the die in small increments and use your calipers for the measurement.
Keep the final version for future die settings for that bullet.
Again, no tools required at all, and the same procedure is used for each cartridge/bullet you load for, rather than needing more tools for each cartridge you load for.

[QUOTE=PaddyD;429507]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Texas10

And that's the problem with using this gage as designed, you're really guessing about the results. Some say that with a lot of practice they can get consistent results, and in reality you're only establishing a repeatable starting point for load development. But that's not good enough for me, SO....

Here is the method I developed for using this tool. Take the LNL modified case and neck or full length size it and seat a bullet a bit long.
Screw it on the tool and slide it into the chamber with a firm push. Then retract. Any tendency to stick is an indication the bullet is in the lands.
Go back to your seating die and seat the bullet slightly deeper and repeat the process until you feel no tendency to stick. As you get close, you'll be moving the bullet a thou or two, and you'll feel the very light stickiness just before you hit no stick at all as you gradually seat the bullet deeper.
No stick upon retraction is free of the lands.
There is no guesswork with this method, and it is repeatable down to .001". I keep that as a dummy cartridge to re-establish distance to lands as the barrel wears, and label it with date, bullet, OAL dimension for future reference.

This idea gradually morphed into using my FF brass, drilling and tapping the flash hole to fit a cleaning rod. Works exactly the same, but no added math to account for differences in base to shoulder measurements, and no added costs for LNL modified brass.[/QU

Are you then only neck sizing prior to reloading? Using only FF cases and then modifying for use on the Hornady tool will not be the same measurements IF a loader FL sizes cases and does the normal .001-.002" shoulder bump. When you bump the shoulder back .002" the neck moves back with it. I always size the FF case to the very same dimensions as the cases I am loading prior to drilling and tapping. That way I get a true reading and then there really is no math involved.

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That's a good point about base to shoulder length changing if Full Length sized. So no, I don't bump the shoulder and if I have one, I'll just neck size before drilling and tapping. And if I have brass that's been fired several times, I'll run a few through the chamber and cherry pick the one that has a slightly stiff bolt closure. That way I know it's an accurate representation of chamber length.
I now have a selection of dummy cartridges for each caliber, with each bullet I've loaded, and have documented throat erosion using these. Very accurate and reliable, besides it being a good practice to record data, including that gleaned from your experiences at the range (DOPE).

Thanks for bringing that up.