Headspace To Tight?

Question for you guys. I was just checking out my new build and running a couple of unfired rounds through and had a problem with several not wanting to extract. I changed out the extractor to see if that might be the problem. I think I may have set my headspace a little too tight but before I break it back down I wanted to ask you guys since I just had the rifle cerakoted. My go gauge closes without any problems but with my no go gauge it doesn't even allow the bolt to begin rotation. Some rounds will extract but about half will not/

I also used a black sharpie and colored the bullet on one round and it was scratched off after chambering but it did extract. I have not fired the rifle yet but was going to hit the range this afternoon.

The rifle is a Stevens 200 6.5x55 with a new Shilen barrel. I only shoot factory ammo and generally only use the Nosler 140 gr. Accubond.

My question is with that type of tight setup is the gun still safe to shoot? Should fired rounds not have the same problem as unfired rounds. I do not mind resetting the headspace, but just hate to mess up the cerakote.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

If it closes smoothly on the go gage I'd be suspicious of other things first. Remember headspace is cartridge case base to shoulder Datum line. If you don't have the tools to measure the headspace of the brass cases your just guessing. A few of the new cases might be a touch long to the datum or a short chamber to end of the neck or short throat. I wouldn't be to quick to take it apart without checking the other things first. Let us know what you find.

It does close smoothly on the go gauge and does not even begin it let the bolt rotate on the no go gauge. Both gauges are PTG and I have used them before on another rifle. I had factory unfired rounds fail to extract on both the Nosler 140 gr Accubond and some Fiocchi 142 gr MK. I guess I do not have the tools to measure the cases. I also have not fired this rifle yet as I wanted to make sure that I would not have to worry about undue pressure due to tight headspace. Like I said I did notice after I colored a bullet (not the case) with a perma marker it was scratched after ejection. Any other ideas on what I should check?

The only resistance when running the bolt is actually at the top of the stroke. Seems like I have to push forward just a touch. The bottom of the stroke has no discernible pressure with the gauge or loaded round.

Two different aspects here and I think you are on the wrong track, bullet COAL not headspace.

Bullet: if the bullet is hitting the lands and sticking as a result of that, then your seating is too long for that setup.
Yes the headspace slightly can affect that, but if it does, your bullet is seated too long its only a few thousands with head space and COAL has quite a range (chamber, bullet type and the throat all have significant affect.

I have a new Shillen 06 that is set almost as tight as yours and I don't have that issue, but I also have a Hornady bullet tester setup to get the first idea of where the lands are, I don't even look at COAL in the book (I also set that off the bullet Ogive with the comparator

Seat the bullets .010 deeper and see if that stops it it on all of them. .005 is a bit marginal for a 100% change. You can ease them back out a bit on future loadins if it likes them really close to the lands.


Head Space: Take a re-sized shell, does it jam as well? If so, the case is too long.

If its been fired in another gun and had minimum bump back, then it may still be too long for your new chamber.

Needs more bump back, fire formed in your chamber and then you are good for minimum bump back again as it is now relative.

Thanks for the replies. I understand the principles of what you guys are saying but I do not reload or have any reloading equipment. The only empty cases I have were fired in a different rifle and though I tried those they would not chamber in this rifle. Should I just take this to a gunsmith and let him check my chamber?

Magic marker on the bullet from case neck to midway, let dry, fully chamber, extract, observe.

An OAL that puts a bullet hard into the lands will behave as you describe. If this is the case, you have but one choice, and that is have the throat reamed to your primary bullet and OAL requirements.

Thanks, will give that a look

I think I would've checked all this and test fired before coating it.

In hindsight that makes sense. What's bad is that I had to send the 1st barrel back when they sent the wrong contour and now it looks like I back to that spot again. Next time will definitely cycle some rounds through the barreled action instead of just checking headspace. Guess I got lazy since I've never add this problem before and have changed out 9 previous barrels.

In your first post you wrote, you used a sharpie to color the bullet and it extracted but the sharpie was scraped off the bullet. I believe your headspace is extremely minimal but headspace isn't your problem. If factory ammunition will extract but the sharpie is scratched that means your factory bullet is in contact with the lands of the barrel. As far as the brass fired in another barrel not chambering or extracting in your new barrel, my speculation is the old barrel has a larger chamber.

You have several choices. First, color the bullet of the factory ammo, seat the bullet deeper, chamber that round and see if the sharpie marks are unscratched. If the sharpie mark is untouched your problem is not a headspace issue. If you reload just seat your bullets a little deeper, but you could lose internal case volume with a bullet seated that deep.

Second, loosen the barrel and adjust the headspace so the bolt handle will begin to move but it will not close on the no-gauge, that is probably what a gunsmith will do. If you don't reload go with option number two.

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You'll have to excuse me if i ask a dumb question here, I am no expert but I did stay in a Holiday Express Inn recently. A thought that crossed my mind was had you removed the extractor from the head when setting head space? And if not, were you certain the extractor was engaging the gage rim and not just jamming up against the base?

One way to quickly check is to put a layer or two of scotch tape on the head of a case and try to chamber it with the extractor removed.

While you have the extractor out, replacing the ball with a 9/64 ball helps with extraction.

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Originally Posted by Texas10

You'll have to excuse me if i ask a dumb question here, I am no expert but I did stay in a Holiday Express Inn recently. A thought that crossed my mind was had you removed the extractor from the head when setting head space? And if not, were you certain the extractor was engaging the gage rim and not just jamming up against the base?

One way to quickly check is to put a layer or two of scotch tape on the head of a case and try to chamber it with the extractor removed.

While you have the extractor out, replacing the ball with a 9/64 ball helps with extraction.

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...and make sure the extractor is in the right location facing the right direction.

Actually you have some options, I won't say they are great but.......

Long Head Space: The model of 1917 almost fails a field reject gauge (same thing can be done with a no go and a piece of freezer tap on the back of it)/
Long head space is not a problem.

So you could go long, that would give you something around .005 or .006 and might be enough to not engage the lands.
You are still stuck with hoping it shoots good up close to the lands.
As you do not reload that's not an issue for the brass

Set the Factory Bullets Deeper: all depends on the crimp, grove but you might be able to get a hand bullet seater and nudge the bullets back. Not something I have tried but its a thought and they don't cost much.

Best option would be to get the chamber deeper.

Using a gauge for headspace you don't need to remove any bolt parts, slide the gauge rim under the extractor lip, tilt straight against the ejector spring pressure and hold it there while sliding the bolt up. It would be a good idea to verify the ejector will in fact depress below the face of the bolt first.

When I set the headspace I did have both the extractor and ejector removed. I've always done it that way. Just in case it was the extractor I changed out the extractor, ball, and spring and verified that it was facing the right direction. I'm only getting about 1 in every 3 that are not getting extracted. I think I am going to loosen my headspace just a touch but still in spec and make sure 1st, I am not so tight that I am slamming the round into the lands. If that does not work I think a visit to the gunsmith to lengthen the chamber is in order. I am building all 3 on my grandsons rifles all chambered in 6.5 X 55 so when they get older they will have their own rifles so I would rather it be right where they don't have to mess with changing factory ammo.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

Opening it up a bit might do it for you.

You can put a piece of tape on the back of the NO Go and it then is a Field reject, that gets you a bit more room.

You can try the far end of the No Go (i.e. not snug, loose,) then put tape on the back and see.

You should discuss this with Shilen, I don't see anything but the one chamber listed. It should be good, not into the 6.5 x 55 so may be more to it than I am aware.

Going forward the problem would be to get all 3 matched up so the brass worked so it would be good to get it all on the same plane.

Might be too late for a suggestion but have you tried a load with a different bullet or by a different manufacturer. All factory rounds should be within spec but your barrel bore may be tight and the round loaded to the max spec. Sometimes just putting a single box through the gun will polish the leade enough that sticking goes away if you can find a load that is not pushing the bullet to the lands for the break in.

Jay, If you can close the bolt and then have trouble extracting the unfired round you may be jamming the lands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

Jay, If you can close the bolt and then have trouble extracting the unfired round you may be jamming the lands.

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This is a distinct possibility. Also jamming the bullet up against the lands
also raises pressures, which could account for the sticking and blown primers.
A deeper seated bullet would alleviate the problem if that is in fact, the problem.