Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of.....22LR Accuracy. An Experiment.

This is gonna be long...so if you're bored easily...
I'm obsessed with Savage Rifles. Surprisingly for me, I'm also obsessed with .22LR caliber. "Well blow me down..!" as Popeye said when Olive gave him a Savage MKII Classic for his 100th birthday.

My .22LR is a MKII Classic, sporter barrel. Currently topped with a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire BDC 150. Love the scope but it may change as I've just ordered a Mueller 8-32x44 Target fine crosshair.

Anyway, as we all know there are many variables relative to accuracy concerning any caliber. Regarding ammo. for the .22LR, and subsequently accuracy, there seem to be two...OK maybe three or more "camps". As I see it some say 1- Buy Match ammo., period. 2- Measure and sort by rim thickness. .22LR headspaces off the rim so...And 3- Uniform the bullet / head for superior results. More uniform= more accuracy; more bearing surface=more accuracy etc. ADDITIONALLY other measurable variables are weight, C.O.A.L. etc.

SO I bought a Hornady L&L rim thickness measuring device. Simply clamps on to your caliper, has two "collets" one for .22LR, another for >22Mag. and .17 HMR.

THEN, I looked at three bullet re-formers / uniformers, hereafter referred to as "modifiers".

One is made by Paco Kelly; another made by Neal Waltz and the third made by "D Rock. All three are ingenious in their design. In case you don't know, allow me to provide a brief review and observation concerning all three, as well as my choice of modifier device and why.

Continued..

First looked at the Paco Kelley device. Consists of a "collet" made from round stock (brass I believe?) with a hole drilled through it. Inletted on one end to facilitate insertion of a live .22LR round. In the other end one of a few "rods", the latter shaped to form various bullet shapes by swaging, is inserted. The unit is placed on a hard flat surface, cartridge facing up, and the rod is "wacked" (tapped actually) to re-form the bullet. Shapes include things Paco calls "Nasti-nose" and the like are formed. There are also a "dished out nose" and a "federal Hydro Shock" style hollow point. The unit can reportedly be used with an arbor press too (seems safer and more uniform with a press, don't you think?) There are reportedly various diameter "collets available; .223, .224 etc.

Second unit is a "D-Rock". Similar to the Kelly unit, there are 1,762 different rods that can be purchased separately re-forming bullet heads into such configurations as the "Mt. Rushmore" head and one that imprints the "Lord's Prayer". Only kiddin'! An exaggeration...but only slightly.

Finally, I looked at the Neal Waltz unit. This is a sizing "die" that fits into a single stage press. There are two common head formers available; a "hollow pointer" and a "flat-nosed-nippler" (my terminology), the latter strikingly resembling an Eley match bullet. It is totally adjustable and comes with a .22LR cartridge holder. A third head former is reportedly available but I currently have no details.

I bought the Waltz device (OUCH$). Seems to me to be more controllable, is VERY well made, is adjustable for amount of swage and out of all 3, Waltz responded to e-mails within 24 hours, and spoke to me extensively on the phone once. I like they guy! His device is expensive but out of the three- the better for me.

Continued...

"Geez Brian, whatcha gonna do with all this cr...er...stuff?" Glad you asked, fellow .22LR fiends!
My intention is to 1- take lower and medium grade .22LR ammo. and, keeping some "standard", measure and sort some by rim thickness; modify some measured / sorted ammo., modify some un-measured / unsorted ammo. ; perform "tests" on all and report findings here.

I've read TONS of verbiage on how modifications, measuring / sorting etc. either improves, or doesn't improve, "standard" ammo. But haven't read where the tests were done within the same manufacturers types AND have not seen the resultant targets. (SOME exceptions, but few, and in my opinion, not conclusive). One extensive test I saw listed an unbelievable amount of ammo. manufacturers and types and was shot indoors in a "tunnel" range. The rifle used was an Olympic class model. VERY impressive documentation but ammo. was unsorted / unmodified and the rifle used...well...it wasn't an "every-person's" rifle. Sabe?

This is the "average Joe's" testing so the test rifle will be my MKII, will report later what scope will be used. Distance will be 50 yards from the bench- rifle "bagged" front and rear. I'll do my best to keep it real; atmospheric conditions, sobriety of shooter (me) etc.

The ammo. that I'll be using is as follows: (if velocities are listed, they are PUBLISHED and not chrono'd). Testing will be done WITHIN the types- no sense comparing sub-sonic ammo. to HV, CCI to Remington, in my opinion.

Trying to determine 1- does sorting matter? 2- does modifying bullet matter 3- how much does it matter, if at all?

Shooting for Groups / Accuracy / Consistancy

Vintage T-22 Western (1060 FPS)
CCI Stinger (1540 FPS)
CCI Mini Mag (1235 FPS)
CCI Standard (researching)
Norma "Tactical" (LOL) (1040 FPS)
Federal Lightning (1240 FPS)
Federal Game Shock (researching)
Remington Golden (1255 FPS)
Remington Subsonic (1050 FPS)
Eley Match (used as a "standard")

My rifle is PLENTY accurate and I ain't so bad either. THERE is ALWAYS room for improvement though...so here goes!
And YES- I will include pics.
This is gonna take a while- please be patient.
Thank you- Brian

Ok, I'll be waiting as best as I can... I'm hooked.

I have a model 64 and was just out shooting federal, and remmy rounds too see the difference in accuracy, grouping etc. I look forward too seeing what you come up with in your findings.

Going to post tonight after work, relative to measuring / sorting. Interesting findings so far and not one round down range yet. This is gonna be cool. ANYONE is invited to chime in with comments and suggestions or even just encouragement. This is our board and our post folks. I don't know everything, but I love finding out what I don't know! Brian

I can't wait too see what you got. I look forward too reading up on it. Would love too see how accurate I can push this 22lr out too.

great psting, can't wait for more!

"posting"

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Originally Posted by wildcat hunter

"posting"

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:amen: LOL.

Started the tedious task of measuring and sorting. Should be easy, right? NOTHING is easy for yours truly. Bending over to tie ones shoes can be a life altering event. I love my life- never a dull moment. Anyway I digress...

Started by mounting the Hornady device on my Home Depot "Special" digital caliper. Checked for alignment all around...go to go. I selected the Western T22 Olin, 40 Gr. LRN to start. Rolling along fine and then that bug, that little niggiling voice says to me (whispering) "Wonder if the bases re flat...?"
"Of COURSE they are flat!," I respond, my resolve already weakening. I'm wearing protective gloves- not for lead exposure but because the oils in my skin are quite corrosive. (ASK me how I know this).

So I pick up the next round, put it in the device and it measures .0405". Unable to help myself I slide the round part way out and "index" it a little. CRAP- measuring .0405" Not bad, but I wonder how off the ones I've already done might be? WELL- lets start over- with a parameter" measuring and "indexing" or spinning each round by 1/4 turns, the reading most prevelant is the one we go with. AND if initial reading and first index are the same- that reading gets recorded. Whew!

My caliper is a "General" (wish it were a Mititoyo but alas, no money for that) My General does read to .0000 BUT will only read "5" or "0" in that position. Gonna have to do for this testing

OUT OF 200 rounds completed- 73 measured .0400~.0405. ; 52 measured .0410 ~ .0415 ; 26 measured .0415 ~ .0420 and 37 measured .4020 ~ .0425. Leaving 12 rounds that were SO out of poarameters I decided to reject them, Talking about .0390 and .0435 on the top end.

More coming- doing the CCI Mini Mag and the Federal

Will post tonight guys and thanks- had a whole page on sorting and measuring and somehow it went blank. DANG &*^^%#@!! Work Computer. Well- will be posting around midnight- gotta get back you work. Stay tuned! Brian

I'm intrigued...

Play on, PLAYA!

And I'll test different brands to tell which work best in a Mod 64., feed ability, accuracy, bolt cycling or not, mag operation. Now, if only I could get said 22LR...

Brian,

Keep up the good work. It is interesting to anybody who is obsessed with accuracy. I have been test firing (six groups of 5 shots each at 50 yds, fired consecutively) and comparing results. Mostly with match grade ammo or value match ammo, but some of those you are testing also. I did sort a full brick of SK std plus ammo after being disappointed in its initial accuracy. I reboxed the SK ammo with each box segregated into groups that were matched by weight to the 1/10th of a grain. This did generate some improvement and I was surprised with the wide range of weight variance from what is supposed to be good ammo. Before sorting the SK averaged 0.484" with a best group of 0.315. After sorting, it averaged 0.315" with a 0.217" best group in that string. For comparison, a string of 5-sh groups using Eley Black fired on the same day with same gun averaged 0.304" with a best of 0.221". This was all done with a Remington mod 540XR.

Now a cautionary note. If you are doing this outdoors, the wind, temp, even humidity will have a BIG impact on results and the variance in accuracy from day to day or even on the same day as the wind changes will often impose more variance in the process than the variance in the ammo you are trying to test. I am not trying to discourage. On the contrary, this is interesting stuff. Just be careful to compare apples to apples and put up some wind flags and try to only compare groups shot on same day under same conditions. Example: When I tested the unsorted SK I also tested the same lot of Eley Black. On that day the Eley averaged only 0.442" with a best of 0.220". The difference was that the winds while light kept switching causing many nice groups to open up. There were enough calm times to enable one or two tight groups. My point is that what appeared to be a dramatic improvement by sorting the SK ammo, was probably less of an improvement after taking the wind and weather into account. Just so you all know, my gun generally prefers Lapua (SK, Wolf, CX, etc) ammo over Eley but shoots all good ammo well.

Another item that affects my testing is that my gun shoots best when the bbl is warmed up after digesting 20 rds or so. When I test at a public range, I am often interrupted by other shooters desiring to go down range to put up or replace tgts. These short breaks allow the bbl to cool and the next two or three groups are often larger. Not all guns will do this but mine does. Having a guy in the next bay firing 308 or 338 Lapua or even 223 will impact your accuracy also. the shock/pressure wave is visible in a good scope and it impacts the quality of your shooting. So, I try to only test ammo when I can get the range to myself.

On another day I tested many brands of match grade ammo but also tested Hansen Std vel and Winchester T-22 match. While the Eley and Lapua ammos all averaged in the 2's and 3's the Hansen was about 3/4" and the Winchester T22 was terrible and could not shoot a group smaller than 1". Keep up the hard work. I am really hoping that you find some good results.

On a final note. Sometimes ammo that looks almost as good as match grade needs to be tested under more challenging conditions to expose its flaws. Example: Federal Lightning ($2.47/bx Walmart Spl) appeared to shoot well in my Win Mod 52. Almost as good as Eley Match. While shooting a ARA match last Dec. I decided to stop using the Eley Black on the last of six tgts and substituted Federal Lightning ammo. I only used the Federal for the first 15 of the 25 total rounds fired, as I switched back to Eley for the last 10 rds. This resulted in the worst score of the day and four of the worst shots of the day were scored with the Federal ammo. The difference was shocking.

Irish

Hi Folks- been a long week..with some late nights sorting ammo.! I knew when to quit each night when, after inserting a round into the "gauge", reading the caliper, removing it and immediately forgetting what it read...:o

Tomorrow I will take pics of the "equipment" and pics of the bullet heads with / without modification. Here are some notes, so far:

The vintage Western T-22 had the widest spread as far as rim thickness goes.

The CCI Mini Mag. was pretty consistent; almost exactly 50% measuring .0400", 25% measuring .0405" and the remaining 25% .0415" the latter including a few at .0410".

100 Rounds of Federal Game-Shok 10% at .0395", 25% at .0400", slightly over 15% at .0405"and slightly less than 50% measuring .0410~.0415".

Meanwhile, I started swaging bullets. I'll include pics tomorrow, but so far both the hollow pointer and the flat nose nippler both are consistent. Using the hollow pointer on some misc. T-22 rounds shows an impressive looking hollow point. Just for grins I swaged some "Stingers" which are already hollow points from the factory. They produce a "cavernous" hollow point- am anxious to see what they will do with small game.

The few flat nosed bullets I did with the T-22 closely resemble the Eley Match.

BOTH the hollow point and flat nosed modifieds fed from the magazine (10 round) with the exception of the last round. I imagine the last round in the mag is at a slightly different angle and that, coupled with the enlarged diameter of the bullet after swaging, causes it to "hang up". However, some slight pressure on the bottom of the mag pushing "forward" (toward the muzzle end of the gun) allowed the round to feed.

We've gotten a lot of snow here in the section of Pa.that I live. For whatever reason, Starlings started invading our bird feeders and our backyard bird sanctuary. I, being a protector type person, could not allow this. Carefully setting out "shooting lanes" with safe backstops in my back yard, I eliminated 6 Starlings from their "gang". Two of which were shot with the standard T-22 rounds- unmodified. Four were dispatched using the hollow-pointer modified T-22 rounds. Well, dead is dead, but I was impressed with the swaged hollow points in that the entry wounds looked pretty much like the unmodified bullets wounds- maybe slightly larger. The exit wounds however, were impressive. About the size of a "nickel" on the body shots- the head shots were- you can imagine. The body shots also blew feathers in a great display! I know I'm gonna catch heck from some of you for not photographing the results- so my next kills I will.

BTW- Yes- it is...less than legal... for me to be discharging rounds in borough limits. Trust me- I was careful for backstop and richochets etc. AND I did use SOME restraint- I didn't wack any with the "Stingers". I felt 1500+ FPS was a little too risky in this environment.

To be continued....

Brian

"Irish"..Thank you for the time and thoughtfulness of your post. MANY good points and useful information. Also good to know someone else out there is as..whats the word..."serious" about .22LR accuracy. All this testing and measuring may come up inconclusive, but it's sure fun in the interim...

Brian

Brian,
Good stuff!!
The next step after all of the measuring, sorting and swaging is completed will be the itch to find out what affect "lube" will have on these groupings. :p Your inquisitive mind will start to wonder just why do they put that wolf snot on match grade ammo? What improvements if any can I get by pursuing this path?
It is all about the journey!! I will wave at you when I see you on the path!:02.47-tranquillity:

Mike

Have a CHEAP Mossberg 144 LS that shoot very well when i was shooting this in our gun club's indoor four position league i fired clean at all positions BUT offhand???

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Originally Posted by Balljoint

Have a CHEAP Mossberg 144 LS that shoot very well when i was shooting this in our gun club's indoor four position league i fired clean at all positions BUT offhand???

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Well Balljoint, offhand is the most difficult position to shoot from. One of our members has a signature line that says something like "Benchrest proves the rifle, offhand proves the man..." Heck, when I'm shooting off the bench (almost always, except when hunting) I've got the Harris bipod, sandbags, sturdy bench...the only way to get it more solid is to lock the darn thing in a rifle vise...and have the trigger squeezed electronically...(Years ago I thought about the trigger thing- having a "micro-push-switch" and a servo motor to release the sear. Someone had already beat me to it...LOL)

Brian