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Going to take the dive and get a progressive. Will be using it for a lot of pistol rounds as well as rifle stuff. Hopefully will use it for my target rifle ammo, too, if it turns it out consistent enough. Kinda going back and forth between the hornady l-n-l, and dillons 550 and 650. On top of that, I'll probably be in the market for an electronic powder dispenser. Which direction would you guys suggest?
I can only comment on what I own - the Dillon 550.
Semi-progressive, but I can still crank out 300 .38 special rounds in under an hour.
I really like the ease wiith which you can change calibers with the Dillon - while not exactly cheap, buying a complete new tool head with powder dispenser means all you have to do is pull a pin to switch the tool head and then change the base plate (caliber conversion). If you are going from one size primer to another it takes a little longer, but not much.
The powder measure is also very easy to adjust and mine has yet require re-adjustment since initial set-up, and I've put close to 10,000 rounds through it.
I'll second the Dillon 550. I see the lack of auto-index as a benefit. It keeps the press extremely simple and extremely reliable as a result. I load everything from .38spl to .308 on mine. I have a separate toolhead for each caliber, but only 2 powder measures. I keep the small charge bar in one and the large bar in the other. I'm considering adding another 550 to keep from having to swap the primer assemblies back and forth between large and small.
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Don't know nothin' 'bout no progressives.
Think you should quit reloading now while you're still ahead.
Handloading will lead to nothin' but wo' and misery.
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love my LNL,make sure you get a new one with the ez-ject and extra primer tubes ;D ;D
550B...without a doubt.
Of note, if you have a friend help (friend places bullet in the next powdered round) you can load 1000 QUALITY rounds in an hour on a 550B. Have done it 4 times with three different people for a total of 8000 rounds of 9mm, 40, 45, & 223.
Dillon dies for pistols - there is not comparison to others - they are the best....period. Even if a reloader is not using a Dillon press, buy the new Dillon pistol dies.
Personally, I don't like the electronic powder measures. They are not accurate enough. Have owned and used, multiples, of every brand out there. Charge varies as much as 2.2 grains. The quality of the scale is NOT there.
Might I suggest an Acculab 123? Accurate enough to measure the difference of one long grain of powder. Drop the bulk of your charge with a normal powder measure and trickle up the remainder. Is as fast or faster than any of the electronic measures AND more accurate.
hornady lnl takes just 5 minutes to change cals
I've been using a Dillon 550 since 1989 and love it. I still use my RCBS Rockchucker for calibers that won't fit the Dillon.
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...use my RCBS Rockchucker for calibers that won't fit the Dillon.
I still keep a couple of RCBS Rockchuckers mounted on benches because I enjoy occasionally using what I started with umpteen years ago and also for some case forming (though I do most case forming on another press these days).
But was wondering what cartridges will fit on a Rockchucker that cannot be done on a Dillon ?
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Just reread your post and saw where you're using a Dillon 550.
The 550 does have a smaller opening than the Dillon 650, which will handle longer (taller) cartridges.
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Yup. The 550 can handle rounds such as 223, 308, 7mm/08 etc, but the long 30-06 type need the RCBS.
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Oh, the 550 will handle 30-06 length rounds OK, but I do prefer the 650 for such do to the wider opening.
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I use the RCBS Pro 2000. Caliber changes under 5 minutes. Best priming system out of all of them. I load .338 RUM so it handles that length case easily. Advertised at 675 rounds per hour when it was manual indexed as mine is but I think 400 rounds per hour is more accurate for me. I'm over 65000 rounds on it and still going strong.
Dillon 550. You will be very happy to be part of the Dillon family. Their customer service is the best. You will never pay for a part, even if it breaks due to your error.
I recommend you spend some time at http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=4 and read up on all manufacturers models and issues. Check up all the machines, Dillon or others.
If you decided to go with a Dillon, Brian Enos is a great source for equipment and/or advise. He can save you money and get you setup with what you need and no useless extras.
Good luck. Think Blue.
I bought my first Dillon 550 in 1986. I have never looked back.
Charlie
Most of my stuff will be pistol and short-action rifle. So it seems like there's not much in support of the 650?
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The 650 is definitely a better machine and substantially faster machine.
If you had the extra $127 for the initial costs, there is no doubt I would get the 650.
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I'm going to bounce back and forth between .38spl, .40sw, .45acp, .223rem, .243, .243ai, .260, 7mm-08 and .308. My understanding is that the case feeder doesn't work with the rifle cases. Is there going to be any problems with the 650 that I wouldn't have with the 550 that should be taken into consideration? I'd like to buy it right the first time, and I've been saving my pennies. I just don't want to buy a machine that is 'over-engineered' for what I'll be using it for, making the job more complicated. Is caliber converting any different or more time consuming on either machine? On the pistol ammo, I'd probably just run out a couple thousand rounds whenever it was time, to avoid constantly changing stuff over, but the rifle ammo would be more reserved. May change between rifle calibers a few times a week. Hammer, I know you know these machines, but I'm afraid your idea of a 'caliber conversion' is rolling your chair from one reloading bench to another.
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Now, why would anyone think caliber conversion is different for me compared to tens of thousands of other Dillon users ?
For the what it's worth department...
The 650 case feeder will handle rifle as well as pistol.
The 550 case feeder is for pistol only.
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Read the "what press is right for me" section on the Brian Enos site. The ease of setup, cost and speed of caliber change favor the 550. The 650 is designed to be set up for a single caliber and used a lot with that caliber. If you change calibers often, the 550 is a better choice. With my 550, the only thing that really slows me down is running out of components. Same thing happens with the 650 as well. Generally the first thing to run out is primers and the 650 has the same primer capacity as the 550. If someone were to give me a 650 to set up for only 9mm or only .223, I'd use it, but I wouldn't buy one. I load too many different calibers for it to be practical. The additional speed would be lost in the caliber change time and the caliber change cost is excessive when you factor in case feeder plates.
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One would not go wrong with either the 550 or the 650 Dillon.
The folks I have given Dillon presses to as presents have not returned either model to me and cursed me out.
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hammer , give me a press I won't complain either
That's about what I was thinking! Hammer, you are more than welcome to present me with the press of your choice. Talk about two birds with one stone...
When you give them as presents, do you actually hand them over to the recipient? Or do you not inform them of the gift and go forth with setting it up and test running it for a while to assure proper function? My wife has never complained about any of the guns I've bought her. In fact, I've found it much easier to not even let her know of her new toys until they have been thouroughly broken in. So far none have had a satisfactory number of rounds cycled through them yet to be considered fit for my wife. You can never be too diligent in testing new guns before having confidence in them.
I did not know the 650 casefeeder will handle rifle rounds. I'm starting to wonder if I should get the 550 without casefeed and using it until I feel like I have to have more volume in a shorter time. Wonder if it would make sense to have a 550 for my less used pistol and rifle rounds, and a 650 for the high volume rounds like 9mm, .40, .45, .223 and .30 carbine? Not sure what makes the most sense. In reality, I'm going to load maybe 500-1000 rounds of pistol ammo before changing dies. Whatever I get , it will be used for high volume pistol and low volume target/hunting rifle ammo. Will the 550 casefeeder handle .30 carbine brass? I'm starting to feel like a woman with all this indecision.
Did go to Brian Enos' site. Very, very good stuff.
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Usually I know the person quite well and they have spent time in my loading shed handloading with me.
I know what guns and cartridges they play with.
With that knowledge, I buy the press which they seemed to like the best from their time in the shed.
Also buy all the possible accessories (extra toolheads, strong mounts, extra powder measures, casefeeders, case trimmers, scales, funnels, Allen wrenches, DVD training videos, etc).
Buy dies for each of the cartridges they might load for -- usually no more than half-dozen.
And buy enough components to get them started.
I am too lazy to go to their homes (which could be thousands of miles away) to set it up.
They have all been very pleasantly surprised when it all arrives. And, again, no one has ever sent one back or complained about the wrong model.
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FYI...
I have given other brands of reloading presses as gifts too.
Remember a couple of folks who liked Lyman, Redding, or RCBS.
Have given a couple of Lee systems to folks too who really liked the pop-out turret head for dies and did not like a true progressive press.
I actually do a lot of wildcat case forming on Lee turret presses because it is so fast. Once in the shellholder, the case comes out completely formed. (Except those that require more than four dies for forming, like the 219 Donaldson Wasp. It takes two Lee turrets to make a Wasp.)
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Do not know all the cases that the 650 rifle casefeeder will work with.
It does not like all the wildcat variations built on the 460 Weatherby.
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One other item to mention. If you buy the 550B and decide to go with a 650 later, resale value of the 550 is close to 90-95% of new on Dillon items.
You can watch the different presses in operation in these videos. Click the manufacturer header at the top.
http://ultimatereloader.com/
I typically reload 400-500 rounds in a sitting (actually standing), it only takes me about an hour to reload it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ajlandis
I fill 4 or 5 primer tubes, set my box of bullets to the left of the press and my box of brass to the right of the press - then I start reloading and get into a rythm, it's smooth and I don't want to stop until I have enough reloaded for two or three matches.
I don't feel like I lose any time having to manually load either the brass or the bullets.
Where I do lose time is when I run out of a component and have to start the process over.
I bought my 550 from Brian Enos.
As stated by "helotaxi", caliber change with the 650 is time consuming compared to the 550. I loaded our department practice ammunition on a Dillon 1050 and the average time to change from 9mm to 40 caliber was 20 minutes.
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Change out time for a 1050 is totally different from any other Dillon press. I don't recommend changing calibers on a 1050. Buy another 1050.
But unless you're changing primer sizes or case heads, the 650 is not any longer to change out than a 550. Pull two pins. Slide out the toolhead. Slide in the new toolhead. Drop in two pins. Load.
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90% of the appeal of the 650 over the 550 is the casefeeder and that is what slows down the caliber change and adds to its cost. I personally don't need to load any faster than I do with my 550 so the 650 is expense that I can do without. I've comfortably done 1000 rounds in an evening more than once and then only stopped because I ran out of components.
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I've comfortably done 1000 rounds in an evening...
There are many caliber changes that don't require any changes in the casefeeder on a 650.
For example, 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7mm-08 Rem, 308 Win, 338 Federal, 358 Win...
Or 257 Wby, 264 Win Mag, 270 Wby, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Wby, 338 Win Mag...
But, a more important point, what are you going to do with only 1,000 loaded cartridges ?
Them prairie dogs are amassing right now with blood terror in their eyes.
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My God! A prairie poodle Tet Offensive.
Let me add my $0.02. I started reloading with a 650 couple of years ago. I never reloaded before that. I have a few issues, most of which may be true of other models and manufacturers.
1. The instructions were aimed at someone who had reloading experience. I spent a lot of time with Customer Service. They were always nice and helpful, but sometimes I had to call back several times to find the person who had the correct answer for my issue. Again, a great bunch of guys working the phones, just don't start setting up the Dillon on a Sunday.
2. The shell holder is positioned using a detent. That is, a spring loaded ball under the shell holder pushes up into a hole in the shell plate. As the machine moves to the next position, the plate will jerk ahead to the next position and then suddenly stop. This can toss out powder if you are near a full load. Customer Service suggested cutting a loop out of the detent spring, which helped, but didn't eliminate the problem. They then suggested tightening the bolt which holds on the shell plate until it just barely drags. This fixed the powder problem, but created other indexing issues. I loosened the bolt again, and now I put my finger on the shell in the "Powder Check" position as it moves to the bullet insertion station. I also found keeping the level down for a few seconds to allow all the powder to flow into the case helps keep the machine clean.
3. The primers which are not inserted into the brass slide down a shoot and sometimes are launched across my garage! I started putting scotch tape around it to make a wall. Now I have a part to which I applied epoxy putty to make a wall. It works now, but I still find primers on the floor. No tap dancing in the garage!
I started without a case feeder. Having to stop to reload the feed tube throws off your rhythm. Sometimes I wouldn't notice and there would be a gap in the cases, resulting in a launched primer! I love my case feeder!
The 650 has five stations instead of four like the 550. This allows for a powder level checker station. I do worry about my wife or son getting a load without enough powder resulting in a bullet stuck in the barrel. If they keep firing bad things happen. I also make a load for .308 for my wife with 10 grains of Titegroup which make my .308 shoot like a .22. But it is possible to get 5 - 10 grain loads into a .308 case! I would lean toward the 650 for the powder level checker alone.
I cannot comment on how the 650 compares with other reloaders. I would recommend it, but it would be good if you talk to some people to leard about some of it's quirks.
I have been using the XL650 for about 4 years now for my 9 and 45 pistol ammo. I am not confident with the powder bar for rifle though so I am about to grab a RCBS Chargemaster. but with the casefeeder the xl650 is a great machine I normally one do about 100 rounds at a time but setup and and 100 rounds is normally around 20 minutes. includes the quality control check in that time. I would suggest the open station overcharge buzzer though ive never had a double through from it but cant be too carefull.
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Given the problems that folks are reporting with using the 650...
I would definitely stick with the 550.
Another option is to mount three RCBS Rockchukers in a row on a bench and load semi-progressively or to use one Lee turret press.
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I have had a 550 for several years for loading pistol and this year decided to try it for some of my prairie dog ammunition. While I am okay with using it for loads that aren't running at the top end (.204, .223AI form, 223AI, 22-250AI form) I haven't found it to be consistent enough to want to trust it with the loads that are pushing things (22BR. 22-250AI). I have been seeing the occassional swings of a couple of tenths. 95% or more are within +/-.1 grain. I have also seen some drops of +.6 grains and where the next one is fine again. It seems that if there is a hitch in the motion of the powder meter the load will be different.
Having blown out the primer on one of my 22-250AIs last year I don't particularly want to see how things go with half a grain higher. And if I feel like I have to weigh each load I might as well single load.
epmn
Once againg the RCBS Pro 2000 will do everything the Dillon 550 will do and has 5 stations. You can use it like a single stage if you want very easily (mine is the non-auto index). The APS priming strips are the best priming system period. I buy them that way and never have to touch them. If you want to use primers other than CCI, the press comes with a strip loaded thats quicker than picking up primers in a priming tube. RCBS customer service is as good as Dillon and is the same no bs policy. I've never paid for a part. Powder measure stays on the press and has a micrometer adjustment that makes it very easy to go back to a previous powder charge. Pistol dies are installed in a die plate and after initial setup, never have to be moved. Pull 2 pins to change. Change shell plate if case head changed and your on to the next caliber. Now with any of them it's never exactly that simple and if your changing over under 5 minutes and running rounds, then your probably not too serious about reloading. There are lots of checks to make that everything is setup correctly before blindly kicking out ammo. I've had my RCBS Pro for 11 years and I looked at and tried the Dillon's then and almost drank the coolaid but I am still happy with my choice. I load cast lead bullets, so none of the bullet feeders will work for me or I might look at that option. At times I think a case feeder would be nice but in reality unless you never change calibers, by the time you get everything setup and running smoothly, I would already be finished loading 500 rounds. My son set down 2 nights ago and ran 1000 .45 ACP in brand new Starline cases in just over 2 hours.
Hopefully 1k will be enough to hold them off until the next component shipment arrives! They're not that thick down here...yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer
I wish I could buy components locally without feeling like I should have at least gotten a free dinner first, if you know what I mean. Even with shipping and HAZMAT fees it costs me less to order a single 8lb keg of powder than to get it locally. That and the local guy doesn't stock powder in quantities larger than 1lb cans so I would have to wait for him to order it as well. Bullets are just as bad or worse. Primers I'm OK on for awhile.
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As many problems as folks report with the Dillons, am thinking about selling all mine and going back to the hand-operated Lee dies and a mallet like I used as a child.
But what will the cowboys do to entertain themselves when I'm gone ?
They shoot more vermin than I can load shells for with the Lee hand tools.
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I had one of the Lee setups for .30-30 when I was 12. I can still remember launching the priming rod to the ceiling seating a primer. Taught you to keep your head back out of the way. Scoops of power that were a guess at best. I just ran across an old Lyman 310 hand loader yesterday, that my uncle gave me about the same time. I'm still alive and have loaded lots and lots of ammo since then.
My first reloading tool was the Lee Hand Press - bought it about 2 1/2 years ago and keep it, along with the Lee Dippers, a scale & a RCBS hand priner, in a tackle box.
Loaded several thousand rounds with it before I finally bought the 550.
Still prep some rifle cases with it when I am travelling or otherwise away from home.