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Does anyone know where I might find a replacement barrel (338 Lapua) w/muzzle brake, a bolt for it, and the recoil lug as a complete package for my 110 BA? I've tried to contact Savage and I keep getting the runaround. It seems no-one knows what to do.
thanks in advance
db
I just have to ask... why?
Curiosity is getting the best of me. :D
EDIT: after I posted this I realized you must have the 300WM and wanna go switch-barrel to the 338 Lapua. My original thought was you had a 338L gun and had shot out the barrel or had a mechanical problem with the bolt or something. I don't know where my mind was. I guess looking at 3 differnet webpages and watching TV all at the same time wasn't a good idea. :P
well, here's the cut and dried answer to your question... I can't afford another $1,700-$2,000 for a rifle, and another $2K for a scope and another $200 for a Pelican case, so i figured I'd be a considerably amount of cash ahead if I just got the barrel/brake, bolt, and recoil lug and with the supplied wrench they give you, swap as required. The best of a 2-rifle world don't you think?
db
Hi send your barrel to a barrel maker let them take measurements and have them make one of the caliber you want.
Dean
As much as we the consumer might like it, I don't think thats going to happen any time soon. AFAIK, Savage as a company doesn't officially condone the end user taking their guns apart much beyond taking the bolt out and the stock off for cleaning purposes. They might be aware of what some of us do to their guns ;D but it doesn't mean they want anything to do with the liability that might ensue. Getting replacement barrels is tough enough for the factory team; it took a fair amount of wrangling and twisting the arms of the legal dept and such. Getting them to sell the parts to the customers for the sake of *not* buying another gun... well, they are in the business of selling guns, not spare parts, like it or not.
I'd second the advice to get an aftermarket barrel & brake. You don't need a second recoil lug anyways; just keep using the original. Buy a set of headspace gauges from Midway or Brownell's.
Since you have the .300 Win Mag version, I don't think the .338 Lapua version bolt would work anyway. It's my understanding the the .338 Lapua version uses a different action/bolt. Not saying you couldn't modify what you have to shoot .338 Lapua but some folks don't think it is safe to do so.
Gentlemen,
@xr650rRider: I have no intention of modifying anything. I simple wanted a .338 chambered barrel, muzzle brake, AND BOLT, to switch my 110 BA over to the bigger caliber. There are no difference between the two rifles other than the items I have mentioned. I agree that Savage doesn't condone the "home gunsmithing" of their arms but this is listed as a LE rifle, available to general public until such time that they decide to sign a contract with the military and pull it from our reach.
Since they make a .338 barrel, brake, AND BOLT for the 110 BA chassis, I wanted to find a source to replace mine. In this way I can simply unscrew the 300 win mag barrel, removing the bolt and replacing those items with the secondary barrel and thus shoot the 338 L from the same chassis. This should take all of 3-5 minutes to do.
@memilanuk: As to the matter of Savage in the business to sell complete rifles and not parts, I beg to differ. The fact that the consumer can buy misc. parts for a BIG list of Savage arms proves that. The content of your remark makes me think you might have inside knowledge of Savage since you implied (I think) that you knew how hard it was to get them for YOUR team. They don't need to know or even care that my purpose is to build another rifle. All they need to know is I would like to buy a barrel/brake, bolt, and related items as required to swap them out.
@ scope eye: I really don't think a barrel maker can make a replacement exact as Savage does. That's not an option.
SAVAGE WILL NOT SELL YOU A BARREL. There team is the only ones I am aware of that have ever gotten just a barrel out of savage. Otherwise the only way barrels leave savage is attached to a new action or warranty replacement in the same caliber the rifle was built in. Licensed gun smiths do not get barrels from savage.
Northlander buys some rifles and parts them out, you could check with him. A take off is the only way your touching just a barrel.
nope a barrel maker can not make an exact copy of a savage, BUT they can make an exact copy of the outside of a savage, or they should find a new job.
I haven't seen the 300 win mag version of the 110BA so I'm not sure, but is it really the same as the 338 Lapua action? Is it the large shank action like the Lapua? Does it have the small ejection port that makes it stiffer like the Lapua? Sharpshooter Supply has said in the past that they have talked to the engineers at Savage and the receiver for the Lapua undergoes a different heat treatment process as well that makes it harder/stronger too to handle the increased rearward thrust of the big Lapua cartridge. So I'm wondering if the 300 win mag version is heat treated the same as the Lapua also?
well, since I can't speak directly to a 'smith' at Savage, I couldn't say for sure if the heat treat is different, I was told by another shooter that the rifles chassis are identical, so, unless shown otherwise or told that it was different by Savage personnel I'd have to say they are the same. He took the .300 Win Mag barrel and bolt and put them on his rifle that was a .338 L prior.
Thanks so much to all of you for your input.
db
Think what you want; it doesn't change their business policies one whit. They generally *don't* sell parts directly to the end user. If you call them up and ask for any piece that is even remotely involved in the actual process of making the gun go 'bang', they will likely state that they can only sell such items to gunsmiths w/ an FFL. Sometimes people manage to wriggle around that by saying 'oh, of course I'll take it right over to my local gunsmith to have him install it for me ::) ' but 9 times out of 10, they won't sell those parts to the consumer. You might be able to get those parts from Midway USA or Brownells or Numrich, but even then they may get finicky about some parts (not just the receiver) requiring an FFL to purchase, mainly due to liability.Quote:
As to the matter of Savage in the business to sell complete rifles and not parts, I beg to differ. The fact that the consumer can buy misc. parts for a BIG list of Savage arms proves that.
Generally, when you buy a "package" anything, one or more of the items is probably on the lower end of cost/quality in the overall picture. This is where they make their money.
You would be better off to pick and choose the quality that you want to put in your build(s).
I am NOT saying that a least expensive anything won't shoot just as the other end of the spectrum, but quality is quality.
I would say that the barrel shank and bolt are different between the 300wm and 338L in the 110BA. I don't have the 2 in front of me but I would bet money that you can't take a factory 338L barrel and screw it into your 300wm action. What you could do if you want a 338 barrel is get an aftermarket one made in 338 edge. Just a thought.
I chatted with Jon over at Savage-barrels and he's under the opinion these use the same bolt face, so I'm checking into that end of tomorrow. These chassis are the exact same chassis no matter the caliber, in fact the barrels are the same (just a different chamber) and the brake is different having a slightly larger hole for the .038" bigger bullet. This isn't as difficult as a lot of people tend to make it, and as far as getting a smith locally with a FFL to buy it for me, NO problem. I'm just trying to get the source... I'll take care of the details as the come along. As far as package deal accuracy, if I can get a .338 chambered barrel as good as this factory one, I'll be more than happy. This .300 win mag shoots under a 3" group at 550 yards currently and at a 100 it's just under .5 MOA capable. This rifle currently shoots better than I can, so things turn out equally in the future with the barrel swap, I'll be a real happy camper.
Thanks everyone again for your replies and support.
db
Seeing as how the .300WM uses a .532 ('standard' magnum bolt face) and the .338LM uses a .588... I'd say you might want to talk with someone else who's actually used one.Quote:
I chatted with Jon over at Savage-barrels and he's under the opinion these use the same bolt face
Now thats funny... :D As much as I like the way the factory barrels shoot... lets just say if you ever get a chance to look thru one with a bore scope, you'll see that they shoot well *in spite* of some of the factory processes. Pretty much any quality PT&C aftermarket barrel from a 'name' brand barrel maker should shoot at least as well as the factory tubes. Of course, you might actually have to clean it with something more sophisticated than a bore-snake to tell the difference... ::)Quote:
As far as package deal accuracy, if I can get a .338 chambered barrel as good as this factory one, I'll be more than happy.
The338 lapua bolt face is not the same as the 300 win mag bolt face, if your barrel supplier doesn't know that they shouldn't be supplying the barrels. The rest of it I don't know for sure as I don't have one on had but the bolt face is a fact.
Got an email back from the guys @ Savage... the part numbers for both the receiver and the center section of the stock (where the mag fits) are the same on both the .300WM and the .338LM. The only difference is the bolt head (and possibly the magazine; didn't ask about that).
There is a .338 Lapua bolt head on clearance at Midway.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=927768
Just need a barrel now.
Well, honestly I don't know the credentials or qualifications of Jon at Savage-barrels.com but it appears he's a paid sponsor here, so any comments as to his abilities and knowledge should probably be addressed directly to them, or him. Sorry, I can't speak for them myself, as I just met Jon in a very brief e-mail exchange about my quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by sinman
@xr650rRider: That's a good start I guess, now all I need is a bolt to put it on. LOL Thanks for bird-dogging this out for me, at least I have some pathways to followup on.
@memilanuk: WOW, direct email contact with someone at Savage. How did you do it? I've been trying to find an email address for weeks now. The best I could do was google search Darrel's email address up in Oregon who was and is a shooter on the team. Care to share that info with me, how about a phone number? Also, the mags are identical... and made by Accuracy International for the Arctic Warefare rifle series, in .338 L caliber. Funny thing huh.
Thanks
Might have something to do with being on the same factory-sponsored F-TR team as Darrell, and that we field-tested the .338LM model for Savage and gave them a fair amount of feed back on same. I'm certainly not privy to everything that goes on on the other side of the country, but I do have certain contacts I can poke/prod when I need answers ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostwriter
As for phone #s and email addresses... not sure they want that sort of thing handed out freely on the interweb, or they'd probably put the company directory on the web site ;). If you call the customer support number, you might ask for Patty Mercik (Sales) or Bill Dermody (Marketing).
So if the part numbers are the same for both receivers how is that proof that they still undergo the same heat treatment/temper process? Did they confirm that? I don't know which is why I'm asking. The 338 Lapua is cool and all but I'd be a little worried about lug setback if I wasn't totally sure the receiver had the same heat treatment as the on originally made for the Lapua.
Do you really think they would have pieces with the same part number not undergo the same production processes - whatever they may be? That would be a logistical night-mare in the making. Remember, this is a *factory*, not some mom-n-pop shop making a couple at a time.
I think you're worrying over much of nothing, as .338 Edge and .338LM cartridges are chambered somewhat regularly in 'regular' long action receivers, both Remington & Savage.
The 110BA is a much beefier receiver than your standard 110 long action of just a few years ago. One, it has the solid-top/small ejection port design from the Target Actions, which adds to the over all strength a fair bit. Two, the front stock bolt threads into the 'meat' of the action behind the bolt lugs, like the newer short actions, instead of into the relatively thin tube wall where the threads for the barrel are, so it gets full engagement, not just a couple threads worth. When we talked to the engineers about some of these things back before these guns came out, they said that the newer actions held up to pressures that would have destroyed the older ones. When we toured the factory and ogled the indoor test range and saw the test chambers they use to destructively test the guns... they had a couple 110BA .338LM and .300WM on 'death row' waiting to be tested. We asked how the guy how he planned to blow up the .338LM - he said 'load it full of Blue Dot' :o No, they wouldn't let us stay and watch ;)
That's kinda what I thought but just wasn't sure. I know the Lapua has been chambered in the regular actions but I've heard some smith's, Sharp Shooter Supply included, say they've experience lug setback and even chamber swelling on the small shanks. That's why I'm leary of it. I know the BA has been beefed up enough for it but just wasn't sure if the 300 win mag BA was too. Thanks for the info.
OK, After extensive searching and numerous calls to a few different people this is the result of everyone's awesome input and help.
Savage has agreed that the 110 BA in the .300 Win Mag/,338 Lapua Mag rifle has the same receiver and the only difference is the bolt assembly (bolt face), the barrel, and magazine. Here's what they have agreed to do...
Parts required:
Bolt Assembly for .338 LM $202.
Barrel chambered for .338 Lapua $211.
Muzzle Brake (same for both calibers) $60.
Magazine for .338 LM $113.
They will assemble and test fire the rifle and return all parts to me in a condition to re-assemble it here at my convienence or necessity to either caliber and do it within 2 weeks for a total of $655.00
What a deal. It took quite a bit of conversation to explain they were the same rifle, just different chamber and bolt, but I was able to get what I wanted. Thank you all.
Cool glad to hear it. Good luck. I wondered if the 300 version was also a large shank but that answers that question. I'm surprised though that they're charging that much for the bolt. They must be replacing the entire bolt instead of just the bolt head.
Yes, you are correct, they need to supply a whole bolt assembly to make this switch of calibers as quick and painless as possible... perhaps being done under conditions very different than sitting at a gunsmithing bench with a rifle vise.
My purpose was to secure a complete "second rifle" without the need for detailed disassembly or tools required. This satisfies all the requuirements. The choice will be determined by the conditions and this will make the choice so easy.
Schweet!!! 8) 8) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ghostwriter
Ok maybe I'm missing something here. I see your point for the complete bolt assembly but to switch barrels you're still going to need the tools to do it. At least a barrel nut wrench and the proper headspace guages.
Ever see a takedown rifle? With more than one barrel? Same thing.
What? So it's the same barrel with a different chamber? Must be a tight fit to get a .338" bullet to push down a .308" hole. Or maby the .308" bullet is a bit lose in the .338" hole, I don't knowQuote:
Originally Posted by ghostwriter
Take down rifles with more than one barrel don't need to be headspaced every time you change barrels. The barrels more or less "snap" on and all barrels were headspaced for that one action. When you decide to put your old barrel back on you will need at least a barrel nut wrench and headspace gauges.
Yes, at the least you will need to tighten the barrel nut, but also note, these two different calibers use the same barrel, and muzzle brake. Of course the chamber is different as is the long hole down the middle. LOL
Well, let us know how it all works out in the end. To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised they agreed to do the package deal as I honestly didn't think they would. I know I'm more than half-ways considering looking into getting a .300WM barrel and bolt setup for mine, as .300WM seems to be about the max for the tactical matches around here due to wear-n-tear on the steel targets.
Yes I'm aware of what a take down rifle is but the Savage is not set up that way in original form. I didn't see it clearly in your descriptions that that was what Savage was doing for you. So they are converting your action and barrels to take down form? That's pretty cool. I'd like to see how they do it (if it's similar to what other companies do). Post some pics when you get it back.
I admit I dont have the slightest idea what a 110ba is, but how does the barrel get installed to the proper position to insure correct and repeatable headspace, for both the new barrel and the original barrel?
Ever heard of headspace gauges?Quote:
how does the barrel get installed to the proper position to insure correct and repeatable headspace, for both the new barrel and the original barrel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by memilanuk
thats helpful, yes, I switch barrels on standard 110 actions. Im asking if this setup would/could be different.
I'm not getting what you're not getting... use go/no-go gauges for each caliber, just like you would any other barrel swap. Make some witness marks on the receiver/nut/barrel using alternating colors to make sure you're getting approx. the same torque and that everything is lining up i.e. brake timed 'up', etc.
What I dont understand is does ghostwriter think both barrels will just twist on and off without the need to verify or set headspace. If so, and if correct, HOW??
one way is to "glue" the nut with locktit or solder.
You're absolutely right there "BlueAvenger". That's one way.
@everyone else: ...Also, think for a minute, this ain't rocket science. Do you realize you put a "headspace gauge" in the chamber every time you load the rifle? A headspace gauge is just a tool to set the barrel the proper distance from the bolt face for the round to easily chamber and not so loose that it moves. Pretty simple actually. In a pinch you could take a spent round and stuff in the chamber just before the barrel hit the proper depth threading it onto the receiver and closing the bolt so the extractor clipped onto it, bottom the barrel and lock the nut. Torque it close enough to be in the ball park and then you're ready to load a live one and fire.
I'll keep you guys in the loop...
...other than it is possible to compress the case slightly given the mechanical advantage of the threads, if a person leans on the nut wrench a little too hard.
There's a reason headspace gauges come made out of solid steel.
Not saying it can't be done with a spent case; I've done it that way when I had a barrel in hand and a desire to go shoot and no gauge yet. It works, but its not necessarily the best way.
solid steel, true statement, but once the initial set is done with a "steel gauge", the muzzle brake would oriented properly and could be used to confirm the threading wasn't 'too much', or too little. Considering this rifle, the 110 BA, has a bake that is basically solid on the bottom, it makes a good second check to insure the barrel isn't too tight. I hear what you're saying, but a steel one wouldn't take up much space and a set of go/no-go gauges for each caliber don't take up much room either. Just add to the case and git er dun.
We know it's not rocket science. No need for all the smart remarks. I've rebarreled several rifles myself and while am no expert I have a good understanding of how to set headspace. What I and most everyone else on here was trying to clarify is exactly how you were doing it. The reason for that is because your initial comments sort of made it sound like you were having it set up as a switch barrel kinda like a Blaser, or some other quick take down rifle (Browing BLR takedown comes to mind). If you're doing it using witness marks where the nut stays in place that's a fine way to do it and you've also now indicated that you are using some tools which you implied originally that you could do all this with no tools. That's where the confusion came in and why so many questions were asked I think. Anyway glad to hear you're happy with it and good luck with your project.
I think what I implied or at least tried to was the use of minimal tools. My remarks were NOT smart in your meaning of the sentence and if you received it that way, I'm sorry. I have tried to explain that screwing a barrel on and off is not as difficult on this rifle as it might be on some others.
This is obviously new territory for some and if it turns out as I have hoped it will, it might catch on as a new method of owning two very nice high end rifles for the price of one and half at the most.
I can only admire your ability and understanding as to how and how not to re-barrel a rifle. A gunsmithing trade is a mysterious and precise craft that the very least and simple shooters like myself are usually in awe at your abilites and achievments.
sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by say what
Escuse me but I never claimed to have invented anything, quite the contrary. I already knew this is being done on other rifles, just NOT the 110 BA model. I just wanted it on MY rifle.
[i]... and YES, if you already read the entire post, this is EXACTLY what I'm saying. Use the same receiver and switch barrels. Do you know what a 110 BA looks like? You should take a look.[i]
forget the lapua and build a 338 ultra mag similar ballistics i got one and love it. brass is easier to come by.my 338 ultramag and my gunsmiths 338lapua shoot the 300smks pretty darn close.i have shot at 1400 yds it makes the steel gong every shot gotta love it i got half of what my smith has in his lapua.sinman use to have 338 barells.