Need help with Choate stock upgrade....

Guys, I recently bought a new 110 Desert Tactical in 6.5 PRC. Not really impressed with the 2 MOA groups at 100 yards and started digging into quality issues with the stock fitment, which led me to buy an aftermarket stock setup. I bought a Choate tactical stock from an online supplier. It came in Wednesday and I had time to start digging into installation today.

First of all, I bought part number 25-06-01. There were a lot of different part numbers and it's possible that I got the wrong one, but here is what I'm seeing:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...24532c15_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f5ae032b_z.jpg

That step that I'm pointing to is not allowing the mag well (and therefore the trigger guard) to sit down into the stock sufficiently. I also tried to see how the barreled action fits in the stock and it seems like there's a tendency for it to be high centered.

What am I doing wrong here? Do I need another part number stock?

Shot in the dark. Savage has several Bottom metals that require a specific bottom metal. There is the Center Feed(CF) first gen metal frame DBM. A second gen, a hinged floor plate and there is the plastic frame and box cover. And possibly an aftermarket frame for a AI type mag. Knowing what you originally have, is critical for any type of determination. The type of inlet that came on your Choate is for the standard Savage metal drop box. Im am going to look around and see what is going on. Be back in while unless someone beats me to it.

In the link below you can read this statement. “Will not fit Savage detachable magazine rifles with the Accurate-mag or PTG Bottom Metal that uses the AI magazine.”

https://www.riflestock.com/store/pro...tock-25-06-01/

That stock is for factory ​bottom metal & magazine. Your Desert Tactical uses an AICS mag system.

So it looks like your rifle is an Magpul AICS pattern magazine and bottom metal. I believe the stock you ordered is the Metal DBM version. The difference is I don't know. I have a 25-06-01 an the inlet looks different. Make sure they sent the correct stock. Contact Riflestocks.com and see if there is a solution. It may be a simple Dremel fix. I don't know. Hoping someone else has been there......and good luck.--------------------------------------------------I didn't see that Dave has posted but I am betting on what he dug up.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

In the link below you can read this statement. “Will not fit Savage detachable magazine rifles with the Accurate-mag or PTG Bottom Metal that uses the AI magazine.”

https://www.riflestock.com/store/pro...tock-25-06-01/

That stock is for factory ​bottom metal & magazine. Your Desert Tactical uses an AICS mag system.

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Yeah, I didn't catch that when I ordered it. My fault.

It doesn't look like they offer one that will work with my rifle.

Oh well, thanks for the help guys.

Can someone tell me what options I do have for aftermarket stocks? Would the MDT stock work with my rifle? Magpul?

Yes, all the MDT Stocks work, & they fit well.

Wall, like Robin said, could just be a little Dremel fittin’. Something I’ve learned messing with firearms period, but specially Savages, is anything will fit you given enough *coaxing;). If you have some basic fabrication skills, you can make it fit.

This one fits.
https://www.tacticalworks.com/Savage....-Package.html

What is causing you to think it's the stock? It looks like it has a pretty good chunk of aluminum in it- so with a little work you could probably get it shooting good in the stock you have... unless you want something else.

Are these stocks not well thought of (as far as a factory stock goes)?

I was thunk’n that myself. But I’ve just taken to answering people’s actual questions. It’s tough once a person has something in their head. Not to mention…he has a Desert Tactical & ordered a Black stock. I don’t believe an accuracy issue was the OP’s only concern, was it?

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

I was thunk’n that myself. But I’ve just taken to answering people’s actual questions. It’s tough once a person has something in their head. Not to mention…he has a Desert Tactical & ordered a Black stock. I don’t believe an accuracy issue was the OP’s only concern, was it?

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Well, there's a couple of reasons I'm switching.

First reason is that I just didn't like the factory stock after I got the rifle in here. Ordered the rifle sight unseen off of Gun Brokers, seller had a nice Thanksgiving discount, I own other Savage rifles, so I just bought it.

Second reason is the fit just isn't good. I can slide a piece of paper around the barrel down to the receiver, but the barrel hugs the right side of the stock pretty hard and it just looks cheap. Actually the fit and finish on the whole rifle just isn't good. End of the bolt was nasty dirty/corroded when I got it, rifle had a wear mark on it from where the factory had inserted/removed the bolt, etc.

Third reason is that the rifle shoots horribly. I've been shooting for the better part of 35 years, plinking, bench rest, USPSA, etc., and there's really no reason why a shelf rifle shouldn't shoot a 1 MOA group at 100 yards with factory ammo. This one shoots at least twice that. Now granted, I've only tried one brand of factory ammo so far (Norma match, 143gr), no hand loads yet, but I'm still of the mind that practically any rifle should shoot an inch group at 100 yards. Several of the groups showed a vertical string, so I was thinking maybe there was a high spot on the aluminum and the action was teetering.

So, with all of that in mind, I was going to try and kill a couple of birds with one stone.

I will admit that I'm not immersed in the gun world as I used to be, careers and life gets in the way of things, but I'm just not impressed with this rifle so far.

I'm actually an engine builder, have a YouTube channel, and I did post a couple of videos regarding the fit and finish and grouping.

Lykins Motorsports Line Honing Mai..........Whoops, I Mean Scope Rings - YouTube

Lykins Motorsports Savage 110 Desert Tactical 6.5 PRC First Impressions - YouTube

Oh, no reloading? And you’ve tried only one brand of ammo? Not for nothin’, but that is precisely what almost all $600-$700 rifles do with most factory ammunition. I know everyone online talks of their brand new this or that doing 1/4” groups, but in the really real world, the more economical factory offerings will shoot many factory loads above 1moa.

My advice would be shoot some other brands of ammo. And if you really want your rifle to show its muster… Start Reloading Just because the factory ammo is all shiny, & expensive doesn’t mean your rifle will love it.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Oh, no reloading? And you’ve tried only one brand of ammo? Not for nothin’, but that is precisely what almost all $600-$700 rifles do with most factory ammunition. I know everyone online talks of their brand new this or that doing 1/4” groups, but in the really real world, the more economical factory offerings will shoot many factory loads above 1moa.

My advice would be shoot some other brands of ammo. And if you really want your rifle to show its muster… Start Reloading Just because the factory ammo is all shiny, & expensive doesn’t mean your rifle will love it.

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I returned the Choate and ordered an MDT stock.

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Originally Posted by blykins

Well, there's a couple of reasons I'm switching. First reason is that I just didn't like the factory stock after I got the rifle in here. Ordered the rifle sight unseen off of Gun Brokers, seller had a nice Thanksgiving discount, I own other Savage rifles, so I just bought it. Second reason is the fit just isn't good. I can slide a piece of paper around the barrel down to the receiver, but the barrel hugs the right side of the stock pretty hard and it just looks cheap. Actually the fit and finish on the whole rifle just isn't good. End of the bolt was nasty dirty/corroded when I got it, rifle had a wear mark on it from where the factory had inserted/removed the bolt, etc. Third reason is that the rifle shoots horribly. I've been shooting for the better part of 35 years, plinking, bench rest, USPSA, etc., and there's really no reason why a shelf rifle shouldn't shoot a 1 MOA group at 100 yards with factory ammo. This one shoots at least twice that. Now granted, I've only tried one brand of factory ammo so far (Norma match, 143gr), no hand loads yet, but I'm still of the mind that practically any rifle should shoot an inch group at 100 yards. Several of the groups showed a vertical string, so I was thinking maybe there was a high spot on the aluminum and the action was teetering. So, with all of that in mind, I was going to try and kill a couple of birds with one stone. I will admit that I'm not immersed in the gun world as I used to be, careers and life gets in the way of things, but I'm just not impressed with this rifle so far. I'm actually an engine builder, have a YouTube channel, and I did post a couple of videos regarding the fit and finish and grouping. Lykins Motorsports Line Honing Mai..........Whoops, I Mean Scope Rings - YouTube Lykins Motorsports Savage 110 Desert Tactical 6.5 PRC First Impressions - YouTube

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This tells me all I need to know. You are mechanical and think in terms of precision. Good luck and i hope you become a regular here.

Well yeah, sounds that way. But many of us here are “mechanical” Hell, I’m mechanical & I like making things to my liking. But only so much can be expected from a budget rifle; especially when only one type of ammunition has been tested. Don’t think there is anyone who loves the Savage 110 for than I. However, I’ll never buy another new Savage rifle. Only look at used rifles anymore. And only for the Actions at that.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Well yeah, sounds that way. But many of us here are “mechanical” Hell, I’m mechanical & I like making things to my liking. But only so much can be expected from a budget rifle; especially when only one type of ammunition has been tested. Don’t think there is anyone who loves the Savage 110 for than I. However, I’ll never buy another new Savage rifle. Only look at used rifles anymore. And only for the Actions at that.

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My apologies Dave, yes you are mechanical. Probably more than most everyone on this forum. Certainly more than me. I was simply giving feedback to blykins. I certainly was not intending to disrespect your knowledge or ability. Merry Christmas to all.

I didn’t think you were. HAHAHA…. I think I need Smiley faces on all my posts. :smile-new::smile-new:

Trust me Robin, nothing I’m saying is meant with any opposition. I’m sorry it’s sounding like that that to you. But it’s not what I’m thinking. When you read my posts, read the with a happy voice in your head, not an angry one, LOL!

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

I didn’t think you were. HAHAHA…. I think I need Smiley faces on all my posts. :smile-new::smile-new:

Trust me Robin, nothing I’m saying is meant with any opposition. I’m sorry it’s sounding like that that to you. But it’s not what I’m thinking. When you read my posts, read the with a happy voice in your head, not an angry one, LOL!

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You're a good man, Charlie Brown. :) Maybe we can all meet up some day and send a few down range together.

My 112 in .338 LM will put a group sub-MOA with factory ammo, but to your point, I did try 3 different brands of ammo to see what it may like and to get enough brass to start reloading.

The 6.5 PRC just doesn't have a lot of factory ammo offerings. I'll work through it eventually.

MDT stock is on. Very nice fitment.

As a follow-up, Savage did return my email and told me that if I wanted to send the rifle to them, they would let their gunsmiths take a look at it because the grouping was not normal.

I'm going to give it another shot today (no pun intended) with the new stock and some different ammunition before I make that decision.

On another note, I found this nice .016" gap between the picatinny rail and the receiver last night. Fixed it this morning. Just seems like whomever assembled this rifle zonked down the front screws first before they tightened the rear screws. I pulled the rail off, checked for debris/burrs, then checked fitment without screws. It fit great, so I tightened them evenly and torqued it. No more gap.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...96f71d5a_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f0d112bd_z.jpg

I went to the range again. It seems to favor the Hornady ammunition a little better, but I noticed that after I fixed the problem with the rail raising up in the back this morning, it has started to come back up again. No doubt that this is causing some issues with how the rifle shoots.

You can see in the picture above how the rail sits flush against the action. There is now another gap starting.

I’m willing to bet THAT was your accuracy issue right there.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

I’m willing to bet THAT was your accuracy issue right there.

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No Doubt.

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Originally Posted by blykins

You can see in the picture above how the rail sits flush against the action. There is now another gap starting.

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Some rail manufacturers make the contact points inside of the outside edge, not a true 3.500" radius. I have seen that before. Barring it having the wrong screw profile, stripped threads or a bent action, consider bedding it with J&B Weld and moving forward.

This is one that just doesn't make sense to me.

I had the rifle stripped down this morning when I saw the initial gap problem. I took the rings off, pulled the rail off, checked for any issues, then laid the rail back on the action. It sits perfectly flush and straight. The bolts went back in and held torque. I thought I had fixed it.

It didn't take 10 rounds for me to start seeing daylight in between the rail and the action at the range this afternoon and by the time I was done, this is what I was seeing again (I stuck my fingers in the way so my phone would focus):

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c2d81a73_z.jpg

So why is it happening? If the rail sits flush and the screws hold torque, how is it popping up? No doubt that this is what is causing the grouping issues, if the hindend of the scope is moving around, I'm just chasing myself around the target.

I'm reluctant to put JB Weld on it, just from the standpoint that if I ever had to remove the rail, there'd be no good way of getting it off cleanly and easily.

I can't say that the rail is warped or bowed, because it sat down flush and fit the receiver very nicely this morning. I'm just perplexed right now.

That MDT chassis is straight up awesome though LOL

"I'm reluctant to put JB Weld on it, just from the standpoint that if I ever had to remove the rail, there ould be no good way of getting it off cleanly and easily. " Release agent makes it come off easily. It is your rifle though and I am not going to push anything on you............................................... .................................................. .................................................. ......................... There is only one answer to your issue. The threads are either stripped on the screws or hole, or they are the wrong thread size, IE... #6 crew where a #8 screw should be used. At the same time there is a situation that is making the rail lift. Weather it is the way the rings are mounted, a bent rail, a bent action or a restriction keeping one of those components from seating properly. Anything purchased used for a savage comes with risk. There are a lot of fledgling "Savagesmiths" out there doing things they have no business doing. Due to savages being easily customizable by an experience or knowledgeable person, the inexperienced and ignorant often try and do things they shouldn't be. So inspect everything for fit s you go together.

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Originally Posted by blykins

This is one that just doesn't make sense to me.

I had the rifle stripped down this morning when I saw the initial gap problem. I took the rings off, pulled the rail off, checked for any issues, then laid the rail back on the action. It sits perfectly flush and straight. The bolts went back in and held torque. I thought I had fixed it.

It didn't take 10 rounds for me to start seeing daylight in between the rail and the action at the range this afternoon and by the time I was done, this is what I was seeing again (I stuck my fingers in the way so my phone would focus):

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c2d81a73_z.jpg

So why is it happening? If the rail sits flush and the screws hold torque, how is it popping up? No doubt that this is what is causing the grouping issues, if the hindend of the scope is moving around, I'm just chasing myself around the target.

I'm reluctant to put JB Weld on it, just from the standpoint that if I ever had to remove the rail, there'd be no good way of getting it off cleanly and easily.

I can't say that the rail is warped or bowed, because it sat down flush and fit the receiver very nicely this morning. I'm just perplexed right now.

That MDT chassis is straight up awesome though LOL

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Thanks for the dialogue.

This particular rifle came with the rail mounted to the rifle from Savage. I added the rings and scope (and of course the stock).

I didn't know that there was a release agent for JB Weld. Interesting.

There are many rifles and scope bases with JB Weld as the bedding material out there. KIWI shoe polish and min-wax used as release agents. Never an issue. I have used it with other bedding materials as well and works for those products too. On steel, a dremel or pencil grinder with a fine wire wheel will remove any stubborn epoxy left over. There is a clean up process that goes as the pieces are going together. Alcohol and Q-tips are your friend.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

There are many rifles and scope bases with JB Weld as the bedding material out there. KIWI shoe polish and min-wax used as release agents. Never an issue. I have used it with other bedding materials as well and works for those products too. On steel, a dremel or pencil grinder with a fine wire wheel will remove any stubborn epoxy left over. There is a clean up process that goes as the pieces are going together. Alcohol and Q-tips are your friend.

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This gives me hope. I want this rifle to shoot so bad....

LIke Robin said, release agent. Bedding the rail is no different from bedding the Action, or anything else for that matter. You apply release agent to the Action surfaces & the compound is applied & sticks to the rail. Many, many people do this. Of course someone is going to chime in to call or send it to Fred (Sharpshooter), to check if the Action is warped because he fixes that. So I’ll save them the time. That’s always an option. Personally, I’d verify correct screws as Robin pointed out & bed the rail. Easy, cheap & works. If you were near me, I’d bed it for you for free.

Here’s a decent video from from my boy Vaughn. There’s are dozens of videos showing how to, so don’t hesitate to watch many. Also, I prefer using the Devcon “Plastic Steel” epoxy for all my bedding needs, but that is a personal thing based on my own research & experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8qsrDiraBU

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

LIke Robin said, release agent. Bedding the rail is no different from bedding the Action, or anything else for that matter. You apply release agent to the Action surfaces & the compound is applied & sticks to the rail. Many, many people do this. Of course someone is going to chime in to call or send it to Fred (Sharpshooter), to check if the Action is warped because he fixes that. So I’ll save them the time. That’s always an option. Personally, I’d verify correct screws as Robin pointed out & bed the rail. Easy, cheap & works. If you were near me, I’d bed it for you for free.

Here’s a decent video from from my boy Vaughn. There’s are dozens of videos showing how to, so don’t hesitate to watch many. Also, I prefer using the Devcon “Plastic Steel” epoxy for all my bedding needs, but that is a personal thing based on my own research & experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8qsrDiraBU

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I was always of the mind that bedding is just to make a smooth/flat surface or take up gaps. Am I wrong?

I can pull everything back apart, remove the rail screws, and lay the rail down on the action. It sits down the way it should with no gaps. I can then put the screws in, torque them, and it will stay flat against the action until I put several rounds through it, then it slowly jumps up. I shot 33 rounds yesterday. It started with no gap, then ended the day with a .016" gap.

I would think that it's an issue with the fasteners. If I didn't know any better, I would say the threads are stripped in the rifle and the screws are pulling out, but then they wouldn't hold torque when I screw it all back together. That's why I'm kinda stumped. It's almost like the screws are stretching and the rail is climbing up the screws.

That is strange. But it’s something you can freely check. Do the screw threads look good on their own? Do they thread into the Action & torque correctly?

This is one of those cases that is odd because none of us can inspect it. We can only go by what you say, but the issue keeps evolving. You keep discovering new things. So at this point I think you need to have someone who knows inspect it. Do you know of any gunsmiths near you?

When you bed (and pillar) you are improving several things. Since the action is in the relaxed position when bedded, you make a condition that fits the action not a condition where the action is distorted to fit the stock. You will, if done correctly, free float the barrel and put it in the middle of the barrel channel. You will reinforce the recoil lug to where it has a higher level of contact so that the action is not "squirming" after each shot. That will improve precision and accuracy in the aggregate. The pillar and bedding will not compress like the factory stock material will. With pillars you pull the action snugly into the inlet against a solid bed and the metal pillar. So if you feel the screw begin to snug up and it takes another turn to get it tight you might benefit from bedding. on a properly pillar and bedded rifle, As the screw makes contact with the pillar it will tighten in less than a half turn. No spring...we call it soft foot in a different industry. Good luck and I hope you are just dealing with a wrong base / screw combination.

Thanks, guys.

I actually did call a local gunsmith yesterday and explained to him what was going on. First thing he said was that the Savage rails/hardware were pretty low quality and suggested a higher quality rail, such as an EGW. My 112 in .338" Lapua has an EGW base, so I may do that. Even though I can change bases, I will probably just let him do it all and give everything a once-over. I just don't have time to play gunsmith.

I do have a positive attitude now, however, that the rifle may very well shoot up to expectations when this is repaired. I can't imagine what the rear of the scope is doing.

Update to this...

I ordered a new EGW base. It arrived yesterday. Had some time to play today, so I decided to check things out further.

All the screws in the existing rail were tight when I removed them. Receiver is nice and flat across the top. Rail fits well.

I went to see how the thread engagement felt on the 4 screws and found this:

Here's the front two screws, sitting nice and square to the receiver:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...be0d148d_z.jpg

And then here's the rear two screws:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8ca17f0d_z.jpg

Pretty sure that's the problem. The screws are not making solid contact with the counterbore in the rail, which is just letting the rail ride up.

Done with it at this point. Contacted local gunsmith and asked when I could drop it off. In addition, the EGW rail came with screws that are too small.

Yup! That’ll do it it. Exactly what I saying in post #30. The Action was not square when drill/tapping The rear screws.

So Screwed on many levels. I'd like to see what the smith comes up with as a repair.

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Originally Posted by prdatr

So Screwed on many levels. I'd like to see what the smith comes up with as a repair.

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He doesn't wanna mess with it, told me to send it back to Savage. I'm reluctant to do that because I'm skeptical of their quality as it is.

I'm gonna find another gunsmith I guess. I don't care if they put another scope base on it, drill/tap for larger screws, etc. I'm done with messing with the stupid thing.

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Originally Posted by blykins

He doesn't wanna mess with it, told me to send it back to Savage. I'm reluctant to do that because I'm skeptical of their quality as it is.

I'm gonna find another gunsmith I guess. I don't care if they put another scope base on it, drill/tap for larger screws, etc. I'm done with messing with the stupid thing.

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Does it use 6-48 or 8-40 screws. If the smaller, it’s easy fix. Just go to the larger 8-40. But if they are already the larger; then it’s not an easy fix. Could do m5 screws if they are already larger. Only other fix is Weld & Re-Drill/Tap.

It uses 8-40 screws.

What about drilling and tapping it for another scope base? Doesn’t have to be a pic rail.

Im just very reluctant to send it back to Savage.

The problem is they are not machined at a Right angle to the Action, but rather, they are angled. Even two-part bases may exhibit similar outcome. I understand your concern. If this were mine, I would drill tap to 5mm. But I have the means & the tooling to do so correctly.

I’ll just offer this piece you’d likely heard before… Remember: “It is the Squeakiest wheel which GETS the oil!”

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

The problem is they are not machined at a Right angle to the Action, but rather, they are angled. Even two-part bases may exhibit similar outcome. I understand your concern. If this were mine, I would drill tap to 5mm. But I have the means & the tooling to do so correctly.

I’ll just offer this piece you’d likely heard before… Remember: “It is the Squeakiest wheel which GETS the oil!”

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Well, gunsmith fixed that issue. Picked it up yesterday. Since it was a new rail and screws, I relapped the rings, put everything back together, then took it to the range today.

I was raised to be frugal and not waste money, but let me tell you that there isn't much keeping me from grabbing this piece of junk rifle by the barrel and wrapping it around a telephone pole.

Good news is that the rail doesn't raise up anymore. Bad news is that the groups keep getting worse and worse. Now we are at about a 3-4" group. We have a very nice 100 yard indoor rifle range 30 minutes from me. I had the range officer shoot it just to rule out that it wasn't a shooter issue. He shot it twice and the shots were 3" from each other as well.

I need to cool down and think about what I'm going to do. Trading it off is an option but I know I'll lose my hindend on it. I could also drop it back off at the gunsmith and let him go through it, but how much more money do I need to throw at this thing to make it shoot like it should shoot?

I know I'm coming across like a hot head but I'm just very frustrated.

How was it fixed? Are you certain your scope & mounts are good? How many rounds do you have through the barrel & what about de-fouling & cleaning? It’s just that there aren’t too many things to throw off accuracy. If the mount & rings are now tight, the scope is good & you are confident in the ammunition & your shooting, the only thing left is the barrel.

Yes, how do we know the scope is good ?

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Originally Posted by GrenGuy

Yes, how do we know the scope is good ?

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May very well not be. Brand new Athlon Argos scope, but I guess that doesn't mean anything. I have another rifle with an Athlon scope with the same ring dimensions, but just hate to tear it down and then have 2 rifles that will have to be re-zero'd.

Look at this you tube video.

https://youtu.be/d6RopWI0-GE.

dupe

Ernest, we’ve already discussed bedding the rail. Past that, as the screws holes were found to be drilled/tapped off square. But the OP has informed that a gunsmith as repaired this issue.

got it

Just a follow up to this thread.

Finally got the rifle to shoot well, but it took a $600 Shilen barrel to do it. Just got the rifle back, went to the range with some factory ammo and was rewarded with a ~1/2 MOA group at 100 yards.

Just have to say that Savage quality has really gone down the tube. From the crooked-tapped pic rail that kept raising up off the receiver to the barrel that was apparently made by a Kindergarten class. Went from a 3" group to a 1/2" group.