As the title indicates and before I got distracted by another member my goal was to ask about an action wrench for my model 12.
sooo whatcha got and where to shop?
thx
J
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As the title indicates and before I got distracted by another member my goal was to ask about an action wrench for my model 12.
sooo whatcha got and where to shop?
thx
J
I'm sure there's more expensive ones out there, but I've got the action wrench and barrel vise made by Wheeler. I bought them from Midway and have been pleased with them.
That was easy’ I‘ll check it out.
thx
j
Got my stuff here, works fine:
Criterion Barrels, Shilen Barrels, Bighorn Arms Actions, KRG Chassis, and More at Northland Shooters Supply
brownells
Humm this one looks good as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by mike21
Northland Shooters is where I got mine.
Honestly, between a barrel vice and a nut wrench I have no use for an action wrench...
Good information Gents’ I use a rear entry wrench on my Bat B action coupled with a 21st century barrel vice , C clamped to my bench however I wasnt sure if the rear entry wrench style wouldn’t be slightly awkward. If I recall correctly we had quite a lot of torque on it when we first installed this barrel.
This is just an upcoming project I’m thinking about.
Wheeler Action Wrench?? Got one under the bench. Used it once and never again. Cranked it down on a Stainless Steel Savage action, broke the nut loose but couldn't spin the barrel. Had to loosed the wrench so the barrel could spin?? :eek: Will never use it again.
Cost more to ship it than the sale price.
If you MUST HAVE/USE an action wrench, I would suggest a "rear entry" style.
Don't bother to us a wrench anymore after my first and last experience with the Wheeler. :mad:
Barrel clamped in a "padded jaw" vice, nut wrench SMACKED with a steel hammer. It's the steel on steel that brakes the nut loose.
Install in reverse. Head space set, nut SMACKED with steel on steel to tighten. NEVER had one come loose. Nut doesn't need to be GORILLA tight like from the factory!! YMMV.
Not a fan of the Wheeler wrench either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie
I need to add, I have or have worked on maybe 10+ Savage rifles. Once the barrel nut of broken loose, the rest is easy. Ball peen hammer on the nut wrench to brake it loose. Don't try pulling on the wrench. All that will do is piss you off cause the nut won't brake loose.
And remember, it's the STEEL on STEEL (SMACK) that brakes the nut loose. When going back on, extra snug will get the job done.
If you feel you need to "torque" the barrel nut, do it. I don't bother and never will. I'd rather spend my time pulling the trigger than messing with trying to torque a barrel nut. ;)
The barrel not spinning after tightening the Wheeler wrench is not a fault of the tool. The fault lies with the Savage Action. Partly good, partly bad. The tenon/Action threading is quite snug. Unfortunately the Savage Action is only so robust to clamping pressure. And the Wheeler Action Wrench induces a tremendous amount of clamping force. Enough to LOCK the barrel in the Action.
Easy fix though... Just loosen it a bit after getting the nut barrel loose. The Wheeler works just fine. Some users simply don’t have a complete understanding of the physics involved, and over expect. (Don’t mean that in a derogatory way, so please don’t take it like that.)
I’ve Used the Wheeler Action/barrel nut Wrenches for many years. Same one, many times & it still functions like new.
I've been using a wheeler nut wrench for at least 10 years now. no problems. Out of 10 builds, I've only had one action I had to cut the barrel nut because the nut wrench wouldn't break the nut loose no matter what I did.
"The barrel not spinning after tightening the Wheeler wrench is not a fault of the tool. The fault lies with the Savage Action." ????
Not so much the action as it is someone (The Gorilla @ Savage) tightening the barrel nut. If the action spins when you try to brake the nut loose, you tighten the Wheeler action wrench??? Just maybe a "rear entry" action wrench is a better idea??
How many times have you heard of folks pulling their hair out (and damaging the barrel nut) trying to brake a nut loose for the first time??
Once the nut is broken loose, tools needed have changed.
Like I've said, I've lost track of how many barrels I've swapped without the use of an action wrench and NEVER had one come loose after installation.
Good thing we all don't think the same or the parts/tool builders/sellers would be out of business. ;)
Mikie, I'm not sure what you're not understanding.
YOUR words: "Cranked it down on a Stainless Steel Savage action, broke the nut loose but couldn't spin the barrel"
This is a result of the Action Wrench BOLTS being cranked down too much which crushes the Action & Barrel threads into one another, preventing the barrel from turning. It's only a few thousandths. Quite a simple concept here, and has nothing to do with the Wheeler Action Wrench. What does that have to do with a super tight barrel nut? It's TWO different conversations. Nothing wrong with the Internal Action Wrench. If you prefer it, awesome. Wouldn't work well for me though... only having one hand & all, LOL! And they really should be used in conjunction with a Barrel Vice. Otherwise, what are you mounting the setup to? Can't freehand it.
BTW: I've never had a problem "pulling my hair out" over a barrel nut. I was a professional Auto Tech. I dealt with seized nuts & bolts that made the tightest Savage Barrel nut seem like a greased wing nut. Good trick is to tighten the nut first. Just bump it slightly. This breaks the sieze, then loosen. Typically one good SMACK with a mini sledge. Works like a charm.
Dave:
Just so you know, I'am no rookie. Been around for quite a few years and still got more ground to cover.
I do know a bit about rusted, broken and torqued bolts and studs.
50+ years as a Journeyman Automotive Technician + ASE Certified Master Technician. I guess you could say "I'am a professional"?
IMHO, on a NEW untouched Savage action, the Wheeler Action Wrench leaves a lot to be desired.
When you have to "crank it down" to keep a NEW Savage action from turning when trying to brake a barrel nut loose,. just maybe a "rear entry" wrench might be a better idea??
Like I mentioned earlier, I will never use my Wheeler Action Wrench again. You like yours? Good for you.
Yes Mikie, I know you aren’t a K’noob. I’ve read your responses for many years now... long before I registered. And I’m not arguing... again, that’s the problem with text. You can’t HEAR the counterpart’s soda here inflection or tone. I agree with you that the internal AW works well. But it does require use of a barrel vice, right? And you did over simplify the Wheeler as a “Poor” design.. which is a bit unfair, don’t ya think? Once again, the Internal AW would not work for me.
OK now, this next bit is “tongue in cheek”, but I’ve met & worked with quite as few ASC certified “master techs” who weren’t very professional.:( I’m sure you’ve met aces as well. And while yes.., I did have a “Calibrated Elbow”, as was the phrase we used in the business, I was by & large in the habit of proper torque settings. Professionals torque fasteners. I did in my Automotive career, and I do now as a hobby gunsmith/builder.
Once again, I DO agree with you that the Internal style wrenches work very well. Furthermore, each person should research, on their own, the aspects of each style & use the one THEY believe will best suit their needs. I think we can agree on common ground there?
A rear action wrench used on some Savage actions may result in a twisted action. The design of the barrel nut assembly method lends itself to a nut wrench and a device to hold the action. Northlands action wrench holds the action just behind the nut and incorporates a bolt that screws into the action along with a clamp, so there is no chance of twisting the action body. Once the nut is loosened, the barrel is no longer being locked in place and, as long as there is no scope mount screw binding the threads, the barrel should unscrew with little effort - unless too much thread locker was used on the scope mount screw and it seeped into the tenon threads.
The one issue I've seen over and over with removing factory Savage barrel is the presence of shot peening media in the barrel nut threads. This will cause the nut to become locked up if it's backed off too much. That's when things get a lot more interesting. So the best method I've found is to just crack the barrel nut loose, then unscrew the barrel from the action. This allows use of various spray oils to move the media out of the threads as you spin the nut off the barrel, avoiding a nasty seizing of the nut on the barrel tenon.
I clamp the Northland action wrench in a vice, mount the barreled action into the action wrench, and then give the barrel nut wrench, which I've attached a 2 ft breaker bar to, a smack with a dead blow hammer while leaning on the breaker bar. Rarely does it take more than a couple blows to loosen the nut.
With this method I can change and carefully headspace a barrel in about 15 to 20 minutes.
The one offered by NSS is nice, however, it's simply the Wheeler Wrench with the addition of the Action keeper bolt. If you already have the Wheeler, the DO sell just the modified top cap for $25. I could do the same to mine, just never felt the need.
How I do it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas10
For those of you without an action wrench, doesn’t the action move when tightening the nut causing a loss of headspace setting. Basically, my nut contacted the action and they both spun on the threads…..just a bit. I then used the smooth nut wrench as an action wrench. When I do again, I’ll pay the $50 for the NSS.
As long as you never use something pushed through the ejection and feed ports to stop action rotation, your probably ok
Seriously! That's CRINGE worthy just thinking about it. :o
Oh, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT..... can't ya just insert the BOLT, & use the HANDLE to leverage against the Action rotation? It's perfect! :black_eyed:
I know I have purchased rifles with twisted actions from this and based on some of our post on here Fred has repaired them too...so it does happen. We also saw an action that the guy had tried to us the recoil lug to hold the action and ripped the recoil pin across the face of the action destroying it beyond repair. The guy actually came on the forum and talked about what happened(archives). It is one of those beginner Savage smith things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Yes, I’m no longer surprised by even the dumbest “Firearms Follies”. When you’ve watched a person have a fail to fire and inspect the cause by STARING DOWN THE BARREL...... kinda all downhill at that point. :( I know I’m not alone in this, Lol!
I usually use the bolt to slightly restrain the action when tightening up the barrel nut. But I am also not in a hurry so I will put the receiver on just a tad tight and the nut backs it off a bit. I just play around with it a while until the headspace is right where I want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nksmfamjp
That'd be a savage smith, as opposed to a Savage smith...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
OOOOH, Double Entendre!Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas10
Got a double entree on accident at Wendy's Sunday.
This^^^^^^^. If the action bolts are too tight the barrel will not turn in the action by hand, it should turn in and out by hand as easily as the nut turns in and out by jand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback