Printable View
Tried a search sorry if this has been covered.
Have a model 12 SA in 308, currently running AICS mags.
Kicking around the idea of converting to 7.62x39.
Other than a barrel/bolt head swap anything else needed?
Will 7.62x39 feed from reg mags?
Thanks, Matt.
Why would you want to convert from .308 to 7.62X39?
Would you need to swap bolt heads?
.308 (.4709)
7.62x39 (.447)
Why on God’s green earth would compel you to do this? :noidea:
Bolt head is NOT the same. You need the PPC/ARC bolt head. Magazine likely will not work either. As is anyway. Would need a mag block.
Thanks guys, bolt head is mentioned in first post.
Looks like a new mag as well.
Why not? Seems like it could be a fun project.
Did I mention.... WHY??
“Excuse me waiter. Could you please take back this American Prime Rib back & exchange it for some Russian CHUCK BEEF?”
You know I’m just kidding Matt. Of course it’ll be a fun project. Any gun work I do is fun! Barrel swap, accurizing, machining custom parts... all fun. But in all seriousness, why 7.62x39? Why not a target cartridge if you are looking for a shorter cartridge? Something like a 6BR would be my choice... but if you’d rather stick with 30cal, a 30BR maybe?
7.62 used to be a great go to for feeding our AKs an ENDLESS supply of of crazy cheap ammo! No longer the case! My first bit was building AKs... right after the Clinton AWB expired. And I built many! They were fun, and cheap! Just not the case anymore. Crappy comm block 7.62 with wasted steel cases, costs as much as reloadable brass vases 223!
Maybe I'm russian, hmm comrade?
LOL! I doubt it. Aren’t Russians EXECUTED if they’re caught with a 308 chambered gun? Isn’t that considered treason against the State?
ahh wait... are you one of those Russian Informant sent by Donald Trump, the Left is always harping about? Maybe your real name is Mattrovawich!!
I was really asking a question more than anything else. I would have thought that the .308 bolt head would have worked.
Then again I am probably just defining the limits of my knowledge again.
Yep, defining the limits of my knowledge and exposing my laziness again. Should have just done a little research.
ahh wait... are you one of those Russian Informant sent by Donald Trump, the Left is always harping about? Maybe your real name is Mattrovawich!!
I could tell you, but then....
It really would just be a project for fun- we can't hunt with anything like 308/7.62 anyway here.
Comrade.....Put rubles toward 300 Black Out, 223 bolt head, bottle cheap
vodka and ugly girl friend. Maybe 2 bottles.
Ah no dude! Vodka does not fix ugly...Tequila fixes ugly. Thought everybody knew that.
Dunno man no matter how much I drink they still say I'm ugly.
Yeah, I got that same problem. My own wife doesn’t even like me anymore! Now that sucks! When your own family hates you!
Not the worst idea in the world. I enjoyed every bolt action 7.62x39 rifle I owned and will probably have another someday. Good cheap fun and a great deer/pig rifle within limits. I actually killed quite a few deer with a 7.62x39 bolt action the past 5 years and never had to track a single one.
Barrel, bolt head and magazine should do it. Don't listen to the naysayers. It is fun to tinker and that's what makes Savage rifles so interesting. I say go for it.
You could always go "cloak and dagger" and download the .308 to 7.62X39 performance and velocity with 125gr bullets and H4895. You cant do this with just "any powder" but data on youth/ reduced loads using H4895 is available from Hodgdon.
Easy Peasy and anything you shoot with them wont know the difference and your rifle functions just as it always did.
Or you can use cast bullets in your .308 :) Light recoil and they work really well. If you want expansion you can make a hollow point and use softer alloy. For more penetration you can use harder alloy and heavier bullets. My target load is a 210gn bullet at 1800fps. I shoot a subsonic load using a 170gn bullet and pistol powder. 900-1000fps. 2" at 100yd.
Of course, you can do the same thing with a 7.62x39. Difference is you can't change to a 168gn jacketed at 2800fps for those 1000yd shots. :)
Definitely things to consider- thanks!
Remember a BAN on import of ALL Russian ammo is supposed to go into effect on Sept. 7th. Another one of Biden the FRAUD’S attacks on gun owners. So 7.62x39 will become far more expensive & difficult to acquire.
That's true, Not the main reason I would go with a x39 but something to think about for sure.
I hand loaded for my 7.62x39's for years and was able to produce some incredibly accurate and lethal rounds with my handloads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
It's a great cartridge to reload for. It's the parent cartridge for one of the most accurate cartridges ever created and loaded correctly in a good rifle, the 7.62x39 is a VERY accurate round.
And I would certainly handload for this rifle as well, but if a sanction is going to cause components to become even more difficult to come by than usual that is worth considering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtosavage
Sure, any cartridge hand loaded is capable of being accurate. That is the beauty of hand loading. Just some very simple case prep & attention will produce more accurate ammunition than any of the mass produced stuff off the shelf. The problem as I see it, with 7.62x39 is the bullet selection is left wanting. The .311” bullets just don’t offer the Ultra High BC availability of the .308” counterpart.
I’m sorry, off the top of my head, I’m not sure what cartridge you are referring to which uses the the x39 as a Parent Case? But I would bet money it’s something using the super high BC 6mm or 6.5mm bullets? I’m hoping you’re not alluding to the 6.5 Grendel? Or perhaps the PPC? Actually, both use the 220 Russian as their parent case.....but, yes the 220 Russian ultimately is parent cased bu the 7.62x39. LOL!
You seem determined to dismiss the 7.62x39 without apparently knowing that much about it. You can use .308 bullets in a 7.62x39, and in fact many 7.62x39 barrels are actually .308 (like the Savage factory barrel). I always loaded .308 bullets in all my 7.62x39 bolt guns (2 Savages and 2 Howa Minis) and always had great results. The .308/.311 concern is completely overblown and worried about by people who apparently haven't spent much time actually loading either or both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
CFE BLK changed the game with handloading the 7.62x39. But you surely know that too.
If the OP wants to build a 7.62x39 I say he should do it. It will very likely become the most fun and most used rifle in his collection. Bolt action 7.62x39's have a way of doing that.
If someone was ever clever enough to build a lever action 7.62x39 with a DBM, like a shorter compact BLR or Henry Long Ranger with an 18" barrel, I wouldn't be able to get my wallet out fast enough.
NewtoSavage, could you elaborate on your comment:
CFE BLK changed the game with handloading the 7.62x39. But surely you know that too.
Bill Cook
You mean.... its possible to substitute a .308 bullet for a .311 bullet. WOW! I had no clue.
LOL...careful who you are accusing of ignorance.
Now... if you believe that substituting a bullet of .003 less diameter than the bore is a way to superb accuracy....by all means.
I had a small ring Mauser chambered in 7.62x39 and it was a tack driver in a bolt rifle. Like an idiot, I let a friend talk me out of it. Local gunsmith did the rebarrel (308") back around 2004. He did excellent work. Sadly, he's gone now.
What he is referring to is that some mfgs who cut 7.62x39 barrels are using a groove dia of .308, not the .311 that the AK's use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Oh yeah... I’m aware Charlie. My point, there is sacrificing either way. No FREE LUNCH. You can fire either through either....but need to be aware of pressure and/or accuracy issues. Not a problem of course, just something to think about. The fact is MOST people choose 7.62x39 because of the availability of plentiful, CHEAP, steel cased/Berdan primed ammunition. That is a FACT. Again, MOST people aren’t choosing x39 with the thought of doing a .310 or .308 groove diam., and having some kind of Accuracy Monster! Most people aren’t even aware of different groove diameter barrels in the 7.62’s case, for that matter. I’m not speaking of dedicated reloaders of course. Matt & I have talked quite a bit on things other than just this, & I consider him a friend here. We’ve given ideas back & forth in the past & I’m genuinely interested in his projects. I’m not coming down on anyone who’s chosen the x39 route or saying their rig lacks accuracy. If it works for them, awesome! I honestly don’t care. But simply put, 7.62x39 is not on my list of an PURE accurate build. I can ring off like 5 others without much thought, that would have overall better characteristics. That’s not the same as saying the 7.62x39 CAN’T be accurate. Of course it can be...just as ANY cartridge CAN BE!
My last response was in answer of accusations of Ignorance. The statement I know little about the subject is both divisive & incorrect. An attempt to discredit because he feels a personal insult that x39 is not among my favorite calibers. Ya know guy..... it’s “OK” if we like different cartridges. I never said it sucks & I certainly never discredited it, as he falsely claimed. I simply don’t believe it’s “number 1” as he does. Oh....and news flash.... MOST shooters would agree with me.
Few years ago a friend had a Savage Scout in 7.62x39 and he said the same.Quote:
I had a small ring Mauser chambered in 7.62x39 and it was a tack driver in a bolt rifle.
Wm, NewtoSavage is referring to several threads on other forums like ar15.com, the high road, etc., in which reloaders have found that the Powder “CFE Black”, made by Hodgdon, although specifically formulated for 300AAC, has actually responded quite favorably to 7.62x39. It was a failed attempt by him, to illicit some kind of knowledge based “dick measuring”....I guess to show how much I DON’T know??Quote:
Originally Posted by Wm Cook
Anyway, I don’t really think it was some HUGE breakthrough! This happens with many cartridges. Years ago, the 260 Remington guys started touting Reloader17 as the “Great Equalizer” of powders for the 260. Just as CFE Black.... Reloader 17 was blown out of proportion. Is R17 a good powder, sure! I use it...Gives outstanding velocity. But it can be temperature sensitive and has its characteristics to deal with. There is no MAGIC powder for any cartridge that somehow makes it vastly superior.
Sounds like an uninformed or inexperienced comment to me, considering I've done it for years and shot many, many sub-MOA groups doing this. But if you consider breaking 7 straight 4" clays at 300 yards, on video, using a 4x scout scope (with an 11" holdover) from a Savage 7.62x39 scout to be unacceptable, then I don't know what to tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Dave, apparently you've been triggered. Do try to calm down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Sounds to me like you've never even used CFE BLK in a 7.62x39. Do you even handload for 7.62x39?
I owned two and they were two of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned, bar none.Quote:
Originally Posted by wbm
What I'm saying is it doesn't matter as much as people think. I've loaded .311's for a .308 bore and vise-versa with outstanding accuracy in both directions. It's a bit of a myth that keeps perpetuating itself that it matters so much. But people who have never tried it read stuff on the internet and just take it as gospel I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
Bill, I went back and checked my reloading notes last night after posting that. With CFE BLK, I was able to safely get 2650 fps. out of 125 grain nosler BT's and 123 grain SST's. That's smoking. And the accuracy was superb. Before that I was using Reloder 7 and although it was very accurate, I couldn't get better than 2350-2400 tops with those bullets. 2650 is flirting with .308 starting loads, but using a lot less powder in a smaller case and therefore generating a lot less recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wm Cook
Hand loaded 7.62x39 in a bolt action is arguably one of the best hunting rounds for small framed and recoil-sensitive shooters I can imagine. Very deadly and superbly accurate with very low recoil. I've used my bolt action 7.62x39's as training and 1st hunting rifles for a number of young people I've mentored over the years. They flat out love shooting those rifles, which means they are eager to practice and they become good shots. They feel safer and are less intimidated by a simple bolt action rifle too. Then when the bullet hits the critter, they see quick and easy recoveries which makes the whole experience very positive for them.
Delete
I just finished a savage axis in 7.62x39.
Bolt head
Barrel (not a .308 but a .310 bore is ideal)
savage makes factory magazines in 7.62x39 and factory .223 mags will feed it but work better if you open the feed lips just a hair.
savage axis
22" savage sporter profile Mcgowen barrel (strongly recommend this brand) proper .310 with a 1-10 twist
factory savage 7.62x39 magazines with axis floorplate.
Boyds pro varmint stock
SWFA SS 10x42 MOA in vortex rings on a egw base.
stays between 1.5" and .75" with wolf at 100 yards consistently. Makes for a perfect rifle for sub 200 yards or (like for me) a cheap option to learn MOA calculations and scope dialing.
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/2gh54t.jpg
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/xl2v38.jpg
Obviously i say go for it. Even with the ammo ban. I was thinking of rebarreling this to a .308 due to the ban. That said i can buy us made brass 7.62x39 for around the same cost of .223. No that is not happy news, its nearly double the usual price. But i would rather have this over a .223. Obviously being as this rifle started out as a HB .223 axis.
If you find a way to run 7.62x39 in AICS magazines please PM me with the info. That is the only thing that stopped me from using a chassis instead of a boyds stock. To my knowledge no one has made it work 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by mattri
Great looking rifle, good work.
The mag issue isn't the end of the world but I know its a problem for the AR guys so figured it would be with us too.
Fantastic rifle. I bet you love shooting it. I know my 7.62x39 bolt guns were the most coveted at the range anytime I brought them. I lost track of the number of guys and gals who I let shoot them over the years. Everyone said they were going to consider getting one after shooting mine. They are just so much fun and like you said - inside 200 yards very deadly for deer and pigs.Quote:
Originally Posted by nathantc
Great fun to shoot at 300+ too.
480 yards is all the reach i have here at home. For things with a heartbeat i keep that rifle under 200 yards though. For water bottles and crawfish mounds, its game on lol. Going to really miss picking 1000 rounds of 123g HP wolf for only $350 locally. Makes me cry knowing ill be spending closer to $600-$800 for 1000 rounds now and possibly forever due to Obiden. That said its my favorite little rifle. Had a guy recently offer me $600 for it. He thought i was making it up when i told him have more than twice that invested into this build. Adding up my receipts its a touch over $1500. That was starting with a new rifle, custom one off barrel, ptg bolt head and bolt parts, egw rail, rings, scope, magazines, and boyds stock. Its crazy how fast a "cheap" rifle build will nickel and dime you right up over the cost of just buying something. That said, the guy who owns the local range and i made a bet that my build will 100% out perform the 7.62x39 ruger american AND the 7.62x39 cz he has in stock. Just waiting on us both to have the time to let him shoot them head to head at his gun range. I've owned both, and i can tell you this is the most accurate 7.62x39 rifle i've ever seen. Then again it its headspaced tight, on the ammo i chose for it. So if using anything else, the bolt may or may not even close. That has a lot to do with why it shoots so nice. Really breaks my heart that i may not ever see cheap ammo again for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtosavage
Anyway, sorry to hijack, sorta. To the OP, build it, you will love it. There is no better practice rifle than one that has actual recoil, noise, and feel of your main rifle. 22lr will never compare, and on game .223 fall way short of x39.
Keep in mind though, OEM savage magazines only hold 3 rounds. Currently im working on a conversion that fits the oem savage magwell, that will accept the SINGLE STACK ak magazines. 10 rounds. They are an odd duck but cheap and available. The savage axis feeds them flawlessly in my testing, just need a way to lock the magazines in. I know i can attach the mag to the oem mag much like i did in the "15 round .223 axis magazine" i did on here years ago. This time i really want to make it accept unmodified magazines. Keep in mind i do not have a CNC machine so its all bench grinder, drill press, and dremel tool lol. Ill make it happen though. Planning to use cheap airsoft ak trigger guard with mag catch to cut up and use only for the mag catch in my conversion. Anyway, the magazines look like this. NOTHING feeds 7.62x39 like a magazine designed only for it.
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/jgoa0m.jpg
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/c9ruki.jpg
“Going to really miss picking 1000 rounds of 123g HP wolf for only $350 locally.”
1000rds for $350? When I first started building AKs, I was buying that same 1000rds for $89! But that seems like a lifetime ago now.
i still have an sks i picked up new in cosmoline for only $75 at a local gun show. I know how you feel.
Not sure if they still carry it, or if it's even been seen for a while, but Academy Outdoors used to carry some steel case hollow point x39 with the "Monarch" brand that was insanely accurate and very hot. I used it a lot for target practice and pig hunting. Those hollow points to the head dropped a lot of pigs in their tracks. I would buy those for $6/box which was cheaper than I could load for.
yup, repackaged/labeled russian import. I found barnaul 7.62x39 to be the most consistent. Some Monarch, wolf, and a few others where just repackaged Barnaul. When you find it, in the 123g HP its HOT but shoots great. Out of my 22" barrel using https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi to make myself a dope card (don't own a choro just yet) to get the computer to match reality i have 2660FPS entered. with all other data being correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtosavage
$6 for a box is still $300 per 1000. Not really a huge savings at $0.30 cents/rd for steel cased, Berdan primed. Just last month I found Norma TAC 223, 30rd for 14.99. That’s $0.49 cents/rd...and I get the awesome Norma brass for reloading. I’m talking about the good times... $0.09 cents a round! At that, we didn’t care about the steel/Berdan primed cases.
Im very hopeful this intended embargo either WON’T happen or is cut short. The GOA is looking looking at it now. I imagine lawsuits & possible Federal Judge BLOCKS to happen. At least I hope so. I don’t think people quite understand how bad it can get if let standing. 7.62x39 will become UNUBTANIUM. And with an overnight smaller allotment, the laws of supply/demand will take hold. Only the wealthy will have it, as it will become the most expensive caliber. Same will apply for brass, and of course it will quickly spill into the entire market.
Waiting with bated breath.
Actually I thought it was Serbian ammo. It was hot though.Quote:
Originally Posted by nathantc
Huh, I wonder if the Monarch stuff is Serbian, if that will still be available. That would be cool.
You don't think there are some 7.62x39 hoarders who are secretly hoping the ban will go through? Heck, some probably already have their listings on GB ready to go. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback