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I have been doing some research on the Savage 110 high country and I saw another forum about a guy having a terrible time with poor quality machining. Has anyone else noticed that Savage doesn't do a good job of machining/maintaining tolerances on their rifles? This isn't exactly a cheap rifle at over $1100 for that lack of quality.
if that guy is the one that is on his 3rd rifle because he kept sending them back... well i just don't believe him.
Every Savage I've ever owned go out shoot anybody can shoot it. You find a ride ammo you got sub Moa at any distance
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I've seen many savage barrels that have tool/chatter marks but still hold 1moa or better and they just get better as you shoot them out
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Savages are not immune to issues. Not a problem for me though because every one I see goes through a rebuild with only a few exceptions.
I don't know what some people think is bad machine work.
I have a not inexpensive 12BVSS. I have not found any rough spots on it yet. It is matte stainless so minor issues don't really show up. The bolt can still be jammed when trying to rush a reload. Some of the edges are not stoned smooth (I would not expect a lot of hand work on a rifle at this price range). Machining is consistent and as accurate as I need.
The bore was the only rough spot (.308). Took quite a bit of work to get it to shoot anywhere near 1/2MOA but 1MOA was fairly easy to get to.
If I had it to do over again I would have done an exhaustive break in. Since I did not I ended up using some Iosso paste to smooth out the rough spots a bit. It is still a copper mine so I clean it every time I shoot it. It also does not like to be hot. Now days I shoot cast in it. Still just a bit less than MOA with cast bullets.
The real problem with most production rifles (even at these prices) is you may or may not get a great barrel, or a bad barrel. Depending on the model, Savage may replace one that does not shoot well.
The good thing is most Savages will shoot better than MOA with some doing less than 1/2MOA. Keep in mind that in this range of accuracy the shooter can be a big part of the problem/solution.
12BVSS is cheap huh? Stainless action, heavy barrel and an expensive laminate stock. What did you give for that?
My old 12 FLVSS was pretty cheap,I paid $350 for it. Yes,It was used,but barely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
I think alot of people expect shilen select or criterion bore finish and thats just not realistic on a mass produced firearmQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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I said 'not inexpensive'. :) But, not the most expensive. New it was under $1000 by a little bit.
Thats not a BVSS but still a great priceQuote:
Originally Posted by Txhillbilly
Thats what I was thinking. I paid just a little under that. I wish I had never split that rifle upQuote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
I think some of these "guys" have a terrible time just living. Hell just buy something else.Quote:
I saw another forum about a guy having a terrible time with poor quality machining.
That's true,But I did put a laminate stock on it so it's basically the same rifle. Only the LH actions don't come in Stainless. It also has a SSS Competition trigger in it that the guy gave me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
https://i.imgur.com/MrgPW6e.jpg
I agree, I feel sorry for their wives....all of the expectations and nothing in return.Quote:
Originally Posted by wbm
I hear ya. There is one on another forum "BEWARE USPS"...he had a delayed shipment and it was like Santa died at his house. Just page after page of p...and moan.
Yep, some people need to complain....a lot.
Love God, love family, love guns, love life.. in that order and all will be well
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I own 2 savages. Recently picked up a 10T-SR in 6.5 creedmoor. Right out of box the rifle has a bad extractor. The rifle will not load from mag. Bolt rides over shell and will not strip one to chamber. But shoots 1/4 MOA at 100. I can fix the problems just frustrating. My other two are 100% and great shooters
Sounds like my brother. I refuse to go out to eat with him and his wife cause they go looking for something to ***** about.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
The same with guns. He had a full custom 1911 and he nit picked it to death.
I have a Savage Axis 22-250 that I bought for less than $200 used. It shoots sub 1/2moa at any distance. It is not the most refined rifle but it works, extremely well.
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I just wish I still had my factory barrel. Much better than the Shilen super duper replacement.
Never seen a factory savage barrel even close to shilen quality and accuracyQuote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringill
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I have only had one. Ordered a 1-8 Twist 243 Shilen years ago and it just was not nearly as accurate as the factory barrel was....But I realize that is the exception and not the rule. I would definitely buy another Shilen.
What specifically would you do for break-in?Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
Thanks.
Probably something like this, from Savage FAQ
https://service.savagearms.com/hc/en...-in-procedure-
The barrel itself, and the quality of the chambering, are the two most important factors in building an accurate rifle IMHO.
Mass production barrels are exactly that...
I honestly have no idea what, if any, QC Savage extends to their barrels- based on what I've personally seen I would have to say none.
As mentioned, just about every one I've talked myself into borescoping has absolutely horrible chatter from the rifling button. If I ever got a blank like that from Bartlein, Krieger, Shilen, etc. I'd put it back in the tube and send it back where it came from. Nevertheless, most all shoot "well"- meaning sub-minute, and some much better. Goes to show it's not as detrimental as many presume.
To my point, without stringent QC you can't be sure that EVERY barrel will live up to the high standards that top-end manufacturers stake their reputation on.
Every blank borescoped. Every blank air-gauged and the bore lapped. This is why the top dogs have the reputations they do, and can get the $$ they charge. No smith (none with a brain, anyhow) will want to risk spending a day painstakingly chambering a barrel as precisely as can be done- only to have it fail to shoot due to a lousy bore.
When it comes to barrels, you can guarantee a tack driver if you spend the coin on the barrel and a smith that knows what to do with it (or a prefit from a quality manuf)
Or, you can roll the dice less expensively with a Savage- usually you'll be a happy camper if your expectations are realistic. If not, re-barrel it- because they can be done without a smith, you're hundreds $$ ahead of the game.
The most expensive Savage I ever purchased (I usually just buy the actions) was a recent .338 LM.
Barrel looks like sh**, but shoots 3/4 minute. In my mind, for a bit over a grand- I got a marginal (but safe) action, and a nice chassis that was worth the purchase price. If it didn't shoot, I was going to rebarrel it and it would have still been a good investment.
Keep in mind, if you're an accuracy "freak" like many of us (only accurate rifles are interesting, right?)- scour the pawnshops and pick up a rifle in your desired action length- usually $200-$300 tops will do it.
You can rebarrel it, install a quality trigger, and set it in a decent stock like a B&C and still be at around a grand. In my mind, that's a better route than rolling the dice on a factory stick.
Savage Rifles have a positive reputation for very affordable and accurate rifles. Sometimes they have issues with barrel vs receiver alignment. I haven't dove down the rabbit hole of exactly why or what causes them to sometimes have this problem but it does occasionally happen. It has been documented on this site, verified by my local gunsmiths and has happened to me personally. Based on severity you can either #1-purchases mounts that have adjustable windage/horizontal. #2-Adjust it out with your scope (depending how much you have to adjust this may Not be a good idea) or #3 send it back to the Factory. All factory assembly line produced rifles have issues at one time or another. I would not discount any brand because they had a problem with this or that. If you want absolute perfection either build it yourself if you have the skill set or have one custom built which is going to cost a lot more!
Savage should do what ( i think it was bergera ) did, pay Ed shilen to come in and examine barrel quality control and production.. i think it was bergera..or maybe thompson??
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That may well be, but I got one. If Savage would sell a replacement factory barrel for my F/TR, I would get it in a heartbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
Yeah I rebarrel all my savages.. i do have a couple that are factory and look rough but are pretty accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringill
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I was thinking the same when I saw that last post. But of course there are exceptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
Anyway, I’m not sure why Savage is trying to get into the next level rifle class. (Price wise). It gives the “Complaint Department” more ammo of Savage sucking! Broken record. I know MY Savage has exceptional machining and punches FAR above its weight class, considering investment. THAT’s the reason I built it in the first place. Someone wants to buy an $1100+ or whatever Savage, that’s their prerogative. I am however, somewhat dismissive of a person talking ish about how a rifle they felt inclined to purchase LOOKS because of machining marks....and testing it’s performance.
I definitely think savage gives you one of the best bangs for the buck pun intended lol. I do think a lot of people expect way too much though from a 4 or $500 rifleQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
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Or a 5 or 600 dollar optic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
I gotta say, ive been really happy with some vortex and primary arms optics that were in the 5-600 range even compared to the razor HD i have I dont see alot of difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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Have you contacted Shilen about this problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringill
I would DEFINITELY contact shilen.. ive has a dozen select match and not one of them was anything less than one hole barrelsQuote:
Originally Posted by justpassinthru
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Ted,If you can't tell the difference between a $500-600 scope and one that cost $1000+,you need to get your eyes checked. There's a world of difference optically and mechanically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
Now,once you start comparing $1500 scopes to $2000 - $3000 scopes,most shooter's can't really see the differences unless they know what to look for,and even then unless you're shooting in extreme conditions and ranges it's hard to notice.
Rex Tibor says the same about some of the Primary Arms optics and really gives the reticle designer for PA some credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
However when it comes to Clarity, CA etc I am with TX hillbilly.
I can definitely agree that like razor hd or similar have a edge in clarity but not much. One of the pa scopes I have is 3-18x50 ffp Athena mill tree reticle and I am impressed with it to say the least.. it returns to 0 flawlessly, the adjustments are true (1 click@100 yards moves .36") , the side focus seem to be dead on and ive been out pretty far with it and image was bright and crisp.. ive heard rumors that they are made by the same Japanese company that makes vortex.. dont know if thats true so I won't say its the gospel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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Yeah. LOW probably. They are making the flagship for Athlon and probably Bushnells better stuff too. I bet there are others also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
Well I know vortex on their high end scopes take basically the same scopes ordered to the specs they desire then they in house machine new high quality turret mechanisims, etch new reticles.. basically gut them and replace the parts with high quality parts they make in house.. ive wondered if the is any compatibility among the internals of PA and vortexQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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Im not sure about that but I do believe the AMG is American Made Glass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
It is.. im talking about their high end scopes.. they even detail on their site what they do to make them better.. Japanese glass though ain't nothing to sneeze at.. they have been dealing in some of the finest optics in the film industry for decades.. im sure cinema quality camara lenses are made to a very high standard. But all in all i would much prefer American made even if it does cost a little more at timesQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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I wonder who makes the Jap glass now days?
I think they probably make their own.. they have been making top notch glass for cameras and lenses, telescopes for decades but i guess I dont really know if they have outsorcedQuote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
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Well that all sounds good, but fact is most people buying factory built rifles arent (accuracy) freaks, including most who buy Savages.Quote:
Originally Posted by tobnpr
Fact also is that many of the factory rifles today shoot extremly well, not just Savages, which could also be for reasons other than the rifle itself.
Lets be perfectly honest here as for the accuracy nuts using Savages.
Most who do, do so because they dont have the machinery nor the ability to use it for chambering a barrel and installing it without a barrel nut.
Mind you now i fully realize that building a gun on a tuned factory action could exceed the ability level of most of us.
But tuning an action is a skill level most of us dont have either, and id venture to say most arent for that reason.
So at what point does any of that begin to matter, or dosent it matter anyway for at least most of us who might consider ourselves accuracy nuts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
I guess it is time to shut down the gun forums. Everyone wants to talk about accuracy but that's all been done 40 years ago and there is nothing left to talk about. Why should anyone get into the sport or even modify their factory rifle? Turn out the lights...the party is over.:behindsofa::pop2:
I never met you but I gotta feeling we would get along just fine my fellow smart ass;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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