New 110 Scout Rifle, factory peep sights are not workable

I purchased a new 110 Scout rifle in .308 a few weeks ago and decided to try and master the factory peep sights before buying an optic. I've shot it twice now - once in the woods and once at an actual range. When I shot it in the woods, I got the rifle sighted in OK at around 25 yards, but it would hit nearly a foot high at 120 yards with the back sight nearly all the day down. At the range, I could barely get it to hit on the paper at 50 yards and many of my shots went right over the top of the target and into the backstop - no matter where I set the rear sight elevation.

I took it back home, lined a long straightedge up on the picatinny rail, and found that the center of the rear Williams peep was a good 3/16" higher than the top of the front blade, even with the rear sight adjusted all of the way down. No wonder I couldn't hit anything - either the factory front sight is too low or the Williams peep is just too high.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GFTwyqqDeoyrzBB59

Has anyone else experienced this? It's a bit frustrating to have a brand new $700 gun with factory sights that aren't workable. I contacted Savage via email and sent them pictures showing the situation, hopefully they will rectify the issue.

Pics of sights against straightedge:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zMjemP6YnPmmCvsy6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TKKWS8xSn8i1tKG86https://photos.app.goo.gl/6nHQBcbZBCLzwGNu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6nHQBcbZBCLzwGNu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gVk46xsY8EFMnKH18
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uztwa4yxQisRCvpR6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NZeUNNFZPrZgDjJK7

Haven't handled one of the 110 Scouts, but the Model 11 Scout I reviewed a few years ago didn't suffer from that issue. Maybe they changed suppliers for the sights or the supplier screwed up or ?? Savage customer service is usually very good so hopefully they'll get you taken care of promptly. I would however recommend calling rather than emailing as their response to emails has been less than reliable based on others experiences here.

I replaced the rear peep sight on my 110 with a Williams Ghost ring sight that has a green fiber optic that gives you 2 dots on each side. It's designed for shotguns but it's fits the rear base with no problems. I have not tried the sight yet, as I've been working with my Scout scope. I do find that the front of the rail covers up the bottom half of the front sight and I may make modifications to the front of the rail by having a tapered channel milled in front of the rail screw at the end of the receiver to the front of the rail.

Also, what ammo are you shooting? I find that my Scout likes 175 grain bullets (Sig 175 gr Match). I've tried some 150 gr and they were inconsistent (depending on the brand, I.e. Winchester white box, Armscor, Aquilia).

Thanks for the responses. I'll give Savage a couple of days and then call them if I don't hear back. I wanted to send them some pics so they don't just think I'm a terrible shot :).

So far I've been shooting Magtec budget ammo with 168-grain Sierra Match King bullets. They seemed to shoot OK, but it's hard to tell with the sights having issues. When I was shooting it yesterday at the range, I had a one-inch group at 25-yards (though it was a good 8 inches above where I was aiming and barely on the target...). I'll switch to something different for hog and deer hunting.

On a sidenote, has anyone installed a Lyman 57 rear sight on these guns? Looks reasonably-price and easier to adjust than the factory Williams sight. I like the idea of peep sights and don't want to give up on them yet, especially because most of the hunting around here is all in the woods at distances of well less than 100 yards.

I haven't looked at the Lyman. I do use the Vortex Crossfire II 2-7 Scout scope. I have >1 moa at 100 from the bench with a rest with the 175's. I'll be working with the iron sights once the weather warms up out of the 30's from the rest to get a zero.

I am having the EXACT same issue. I bought this rifle with the intention of using the Williams/iron sights only. I'm shooting at least 2" high at 100m (109y) with 168 gn hand loads. My rear sight is lowered to the point where it's barely clear of the rear baffle on the bolt, and I'm still at least 2" high. Savage USA asked me to return the rifle to them until they realized that I'm in Canada - womp womp womp. Now I'm dealing with Savage Canada, but their process is entirely different. I want to love this rifle, but we're off to a rocky start. I'm going to wait for Savage Canada to step up to the plate (or fall of it, depending on their answer). I know of at least one other 110 Scout owner in Canada who reports the exact same issue.

https://i.imgur.com/nf5h9V4.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/EBdtj3F.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/RW8HHC0.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/hWwqiX3.jpg?1

Bottom line is that the front sight is too low.

I'm looking into other winged/protected front sight options, like Mini 14/30, or if my dreams come true, and adjustable height front post like the M16A2 style front post. I expect they will require gunsmithing to some degree.

Let's keep this post going...

Have you moved the rear peep up? That should move the front sight blade down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Back2Wyo

Have you moved the rear peep up? That should move the front sight blade down.

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Actually that’s not the way I see it... Move the rear sight in the same direction you wish to move the point of impact, or move the front sight in the opposite direction you wish to move the point of impact. That’s what I’ve always been taught. Perhaps I misunderstand though.


https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...04&postcount=3

If you wanted to lower the bullet impact on the target, you would lower the rear sight or raise the front sight.

So I've spoken to Williams Gun Sight, and they immediately called out the front sight as being too low. They just couldn't understand why a factory front sight would:
a) be too low
b) not be able to be swapped out for the right height (they probably were thinking dovetail though).

I got a hold of someone at Savage, and they suggested I shoot and verify POI with their "accuracy load" before sending the rifle back to them.

https://i.imgur.com/2sZpZZL.jpg
So I went out and bought some Federal GMM 168 gn. factory ammunition and went shooting.

https://i.imgur.com/mPnuIKS.jpg?1

Here's my best 5 SHOT group shooting through the factory aperture sights at 100 meters (~109 yards). :confusion:

https://i.imgur.com/DLJIKez.jpg?1

I really don't want to send this rifle into Savage only to have them come back with a non-solution...
I would really also prefer not to put a scope on it...

Solder a brass pin to the top of the front sight. Or something similar.

Oh nevermind

Have you tried holding the front sight at the bottom of the aperture to see if it comes down?

Personally, I would lop off the split part of the front sight and fashion a piece of aluminum to the remaining portion. Make it higher and drill/tap for an AR15 front sight pin. Could do it pretty easy with basic tools.

2” on iron sights at 100 meters isn’t horrible, but it looks like yours is shooting close to 4 with no room to adjust. Pics of your front sight?... that’s where the trouble seems to be.

The front sight is too low, that's for certain.

https://i.imgur.com/GnkxRdy.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/dWb9XTX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/A0PhfJ4.jpg?1

Like I said...cut off the 3 prongs and file the surface flat. Get a small piece of aluminum and fashion into a taller site you can attach via screw, or even 2-part epoxy. Drill/tap for an AR15 sight post and spray paint it black.

I would machine a completely new sight block, but I have that know how and machinery. What I recommend above can be easily done with some basic know how & tools, files, sandpaper.

I only have the photo to go by but I would place the front sight lower in the aperture. The picture shows way high. Try a 6 o'clock hold, where the bull is sitting on top of the sight.

The photo on the tekmat is/was hard as balls to take with a phone camera. It is by no means aimed correctly (or how I would shoot it). Yes I agree I can aim for the "lollipop" as opposed for the centre of the bull, but either way, that still doesn't explain why a brand new gun (that comes with, and is strongly marketed for having factory sights) shoots this far from the centre of the target when set to its lowest elevation.

I'm also not ready to braze a brass pin, or mill/modify anything on this gun as it's already been requested to be sent in for evaluation by Savage, is 3 weeks old, a current model still in production, and has 49 more weeks of warranty left.

These are all viable, good ideas, but I want Savage to fix this. Part of me wonders if they just kind of "rolled the dice" with the iron sight accuracy banking on the fact that >95% of the people buying these guns will put a scope on it before ever firing their first shot.

Have a look a Hickock 45 and his review of the 11 Scout (not the 110 Scout). I sincerely doubt that Savage made major changes to the iron sights between the 11 Scout and the 110 Scout.
This guy is a good shooter, and he prefers iron sights. He misses a lot during this video.

https://youtu.be/DgeNtkszYbw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doowroh

The photo on the tekmat is/was hard as balls to take with a phone camera. It is by no means aimed correctly (or how I would shoot it). Yes I agree I can aim for the "lollipop" as opposed for the centre of the bull, but either way, that still doesn't explain why a brand new gun (that comes with, and is strongly marketed for having factory sights) shoots this far from the centre of the target when set to its lowest elevation.

I'm also not ready to braze a brass pin, or mill/modify anything on this gun as it's already been requested to be sent in for evaluation by Savage, is 3 weeks old, a current model still in production, and has 49 more weeks of warranty left.

These are all viable, good ideas, but I want Savage to fix this. Part of me wonders if they just kind of "rolled the dice" with the iron sight accuracy banking on the fact that >95% of the people buying these guns will put a scope on it before ever firing their first shot.

Have a look a Hickock 45 and his review of the 11 Scout (not the 110 Scout). I sincerely doubt that Savage made major changes to the iron sights between the 11 Scout and the 110 Scout.
This guy is a good shooter, and he prefers iron sights. He misses a lot during this video.

https://youtu.be/DgeNtkszYbw

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I'm glad to find out that I'm not the only one with this problem. In fact, I registered here just to join the conversation about it.

I bought my 110 Scout used - incidentally in store at Williams Gunsight from their used selection.

Upon taking it to their indoor range and attempting to sight it in, I found that it shot very high as it was set. At 25 yards, it was about 8 inches high (sorry, I don't have any pics) - barely on paper.

With help from a friend, I tried adjusting the rear sight down, but it bound on the mounting screw and wouldn't go any lower.

When our time at the range finished, I took it back to the gunsmithing counter and explained the problem to them. They were quite friendly and took it back into the shop, where they found that the counterbore for the mounting screw wasn't deep enough, and since it is their own sight, they had the right tool to counterbore it to the correct depth.

I have no complaints whatsoever with Williams Gunsight - their service thus far has been exemplary.

Anyway, that fixed the problem with the rear sight, but that seems to just be the start of the problem.

On the 4th I attempted once again to sight it in at approximately 25 yards. I was running out of light and thus I had to stop before getting it right on, but when I stopped the rear sight was just a few notches from the lowest position.

I have trouble getting a sight picture with the rear sight that low, even with the lowest cheek piece on the stock. The front sight is also almost entirely obscured by the picatinny rail in this position.

I haven't taken the rear sight all the way back to the lowest setting yet, but I'm confident now that the front sight is too low.

Since I bought it used, warranty isn't an option for me. I'm still very interested to see how Savage addresses the problem. If there is a revised or corrected front sight from them, I would definitely want it. If not, brazing a bead on doesn't sound like a bad idea.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the sight problems are why the original owner sold the gun. It doesn't have any signs/marks of a sight being mounted previously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blackbeard Ben

I'm glad to find out that I'm not the only one with this problem....

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Blackbeard,

I’d like to PM you, but I think you need a minimum number of posts first. I’m trying to gather as many serial numbers as I can, so if you can somehow get me your serial number, I’d appreciate it greatly (PM or post, your call). I’m also trying to get a hold of the OP, but it seems that he hasn’t posted other than in this post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blackbeard Ben

I have trouble getting a sight picture with the rear sight that low

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As for your troubles with the sight picture, does your Scout rail have a scallop/groove down the length of it?? I’ve seen some of the older models are pretty much a standard rail, but mine has a groove that runs down the length of it to give a little more relief with the sight picture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blackbeard Ben

....I'm confident now that the front sight is too low...

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I’m going to be in touch with Savage (Canada) in a few days. I’ll report back with what’s happening.

The rail on my Scout ( current release) does not have a channel. With the rear sight all the way down, you can just barely see the top of the front sight blade.

My guess is savage will hym and haw on this one, possibly saying that your shooting wrong. Then send it back after doing nothing.
I would remove the front sight measure everything and machine a new one to your taste. Store the original for reassembly in the case you ever have to send it in for a warrantee problem that they could actually fix!
Too bad Dave Hoback isn't your neighbor, his ideas on a retrofit will work great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doowroh

Blackbeard,

I’d like to PM you, but I think you need a minimum number of posts first. I’m trying to gather as many serial numbers as I can, so if you can somehow get me your serial number, I’d appreciate it greatly (PM or post, your call). I’m also trying to get a hold of the OP, but it seems that he hasn’t posted other than in this post.



As for your troubles with the sight picture, does your Scout rail have a scallop/groove down the length of it?? I’ve seen some of the older models are pretty much a standard rail, but mine has a groove that runs down the length of it to give a little more relief with the sight picture.



I’m going to be in touch with Savage (Canada) in a few days. I’ll report back with what’s happening.

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doowroh, not a problem regarding my serial number. It is K941214.

My rifle does not have a channel/groove in the picatinny rail to provide relief for the sight picture. That's interesting that some do and some don't.

I did just put a red dot on it as an interim solution - I was wrong about optics never having been mounted on it. Someone definitely did mount something on it in the past.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mnbogboy2

My guess is savage will hym and haw on this one, possibly saying that your shooting wrong. Then send it back after doing nothing.
I would remove the front sight measure everything and machine a new one to your taste. Store the original for reassembly in the case you ever have to send it in for a warrantee problem that they could actually fix!
Too bad Dave Hoback isn't your neighbor, his ideas on a retrofit will work great.

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I’d even do it gratis! Could easily walk a person through it online though.

Just got my Savage Scout back. I haven't been able to get to the range to shoot/evaluate it yet.
What are you're thoughts on the barrel being "untrue".

Seems a bit too good to be "true".

The front sight has been replaced, and is measurably taller, but not tall enough.


https://i.imgur.com/2dKwQEc.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doowroh

Just got my Savage Scout back. I haven't been able to get to the range to shoot/evaluate it yet.
What are you're thoughts on the barrel being "untrue". Seems a bit too good to be true.



https://i.imgur.com/qs6tUOY.png

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As far as "untrue", was that their explanation and fix?
I shortened an ER Shaw barrel once and noticed it had a lot of curvature in the bore. Indexed it high at 12:00 and chambered accordingly.....long story short, it shot so high that a Bushnell elite did not have enough moa (only 34 moa total) to reach zero (as your iron sights). Rather than change to Burris Sig see rings, I switched out the scope to a vortex viper with 54moa spread and I was golden.
If their "untrue" is barrel indexing then I could see it happen.
Some Savages suffer the same affliction in the horizontal caused by a combination of barrel curvature, recoil lug thickness inconsistency and sometimes the scope bases screws are not in line with the action center-line.
Keep us posted

Unfortunately, I just came back from the range and have the same problem as the OP. It is not the shooter. It is the sight setup. It is not workable. Yes, the front sight blade has to be higher.
I will contact Savage to see what they say. I am NOT happy about this and I expect much more from Savage.

I am planning to run a scope on this, but I want the irons to be proper. Otherwise, I just take off the scout rail and irons and get an EGW rail for a conventional scope setup. Not what I want to have to do. But I will.

It is Monday and I will call Savage about this iron sight problem. They need to fix this. I am sure they will get lots of complaints about it. It is poor engineering on their part.

I have already removed the rear iron peep sight and the scout rail. I am installing an EGW base and my Weaver Grand Slam 2-10 scope on this rifle. It no longer is a scout rifle. That is OK. It is a great gun other than that iron sight issue.

If Savage comes up with a better iron sight setup, great. I will not need it at this point. I will have a soft-shooting, short bbl .308.

Been following this since I have owned two of the older Model 11 scout rifles in the past. They had more traditional front sights, but I do like the design of the protected front sight on these later scouts.

Here's my take - Savage should be ashamed of themselves for putting the wrong front sight on these rifles, and they should fix the problem. Full stop.

Suggesting that someone should have to personally modify a factory sight and then be happy with that is ridiculous. Do some of us do those things? Sure we do. But it's because we want to, and under no circumstances should we have to. Savage should fix this problem, period.

Army_eod, I hope you get what you need out of Savage. You are spot-on. It really is poor engineering out of Savage and it's a black mark on them IMO.

Savage scout rifles are a real treat when they work correctly. I gave one of mine to my brother for his 50th birthday, complete with iron sights (that worked) and a Weaver 4x scout scope. He absolutely LOVES that rifle. His son has fallen in love with it too.

I wouldn't be satisfied until Savage fixed the issue if I were you.

I just spoke to Savage customer service. They are clueless. All they know is to tell me to "send it in." I told her I am not sending it in and if they do not understand or know they have a problem with this model then it reflects poorly on their business.

She is a robot. No knowledge of firearms. I did say I was not happy with them.

So contacting Savage is futile. I am just making the best of it and setting up a conventional scope mounting.

Good luck to you all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by army_eod

I just spoke to Savage customer service. They are clueless. All they know is to tell me to "send it in." I told her I am not sending it in and if they do not understand or know they have a problem with this model then it reflects poorly on their business.

She is a robot. No knowledge of firearms. I did say I was not happy with them.

So contacting Savage is futile. I am just making the best of it and setting up a conventional scope mounting.

Good luck to you all.

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Often customer service people are trained to "act dumb" when known problems surface. This scout sight issue and right now their new "axis" style bolt/FTF problems are two that come to mind. Members posts reflect this. Often liability for recall is their greatest fear. A lot of companies practice this.

That sucks. One "solution" might be to find a sadly discontinued Lyman 57 for the Savage . . . but you shouldn't have to and that would involve additional receiver holes.

I had a similar issue shooting Remington slugs from a Hastings barrel and was able to find a very shallow Williams rear leaf from Brownells. The rear on the Scout looks very much like the Williams 336 WGRS but I don't see where there are any lower peep slides for the ramp that might be an after-market fix.

Keeping this rifle. I just scoped it with a great piece of glass. Thing weighs 9lbs 2 oz unloaded, but is well balanced. It is now a keeper.

I just picked up my new Ruger American Predator in 350 Legend. She is scoped with a Weaver GS and weighs in at 7 lbs 1 oz unloaded. It also ha a 16 inch bbl and muzzle brake. Nice rifle.

Makes you wonder what Savage was thinking if you cant zero it out at 50 to 75 yards.

Agreed. There is not much sense in running a "Scout" rifle that doesn't have effective iron sights. Otherwise you can save the weight and expense of the iron sights and get a better scope interface with an iron-sightless rifle.

Obvious this is a QC issue with the front sight assembly simply being too short to properly zero. I’m shocked this left the factory.

So how much taller do you think the front sight needs to be a 1/16 or an 1/8 inch

How much taller? No idea. Regardless, I finally traded this thing away on a 1980 Colt Trooper MK III.

FORS front opposite, rear same. is there any way to raise the front, it will lower POA and POI, if you are already bottomed out in the rear. Also, if you strike out with Savage, take a look at the various fronts that Lyman makes. It might be the least frustrating and most expeditious way to handle this problem.

If you knew someone with a vertical mill that could dovetail out the one piece sight and ears fitting.

Attachment 6834

I was wondering about grinding flat the front blade and tapping in a thread for a vertical screw post - like an AR-15 front sight.

There are oodles of variations on the threaded post front.
https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/p...92415125_1.jpg

Modifying for the A2 (or similar) adjustable front sight post is also what I think I would do had I not just given up and mounted a Sightron in the traditional location. Savage crapped the bed with the irons on this one.

I’m sorry to hear about your issues. I have the older model 11 and have not had an issue with my irons. My guess is that they used the front sight from this model which has a 2” longer barrel. Maybe the shorter barrel length of the new model with that same front sight is the cause of the this sighting issue.

I go hunting often, and I am asking about a rangefinder because I use one when I go hunting. It is something that can help a lot... I go hunting on my bike and when you hunt for small animals it is actually cool. I go everywhere on my bike, and it is great. My car is sitting in the garage all the time, and I drive it only when I go shopping for a lot of stuff. Anyway if anyone needs a good rangefinder, check out ATN website, you can use them for a lot of stuff.

Has anybody tried rising the comb height provide for more adjustability in the rear sight? I took my 110 Scout to the range today and am suffering from the same problem. I've taken the rear peep as far back/down as you can and am still about 6 inches high.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doowroh

Actually that’s not the way I see it... Move the rear sight in the same direction you wish to move the point of impact, or move the front sight in the opposite direction you wish to move the point of impact. That’s what I’ve always been taught. Perhaps I misunderstand though.


https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...04&postcount=3

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:thumb::thumb:

Hi,
I have the same problem with an Axis II scout in 7.62x39. Was getting light strikes too. Gunsmith says nothing wrong, sights all the way to bottom and left.