My opinion on a Barrel Vise VS Action Wrench

I just completed my second Savage barrel installation. The first barrel I installed was a new 6.5 Creedmoor barrel from Northland Shooters Supply (NSS) and I used the action wrench I purchased at the time I bought the barrel. I thought it was relatively easy, including the whole process, which involved removing the factory barrel and installing new barrel.

Wellll, I decided to have the factory barrel threaded for my suppressor on another Cabela's 12FV 22-250 I had bought. So, I removed the factory barrel using the action wrench and sent it off for threading. I initially bought a Viper Bench Rest Vise before ever removing or installing a barrel, but later bought the NSS Action Wrench and I never tried using the barrel vise.

I tried to reinstall my barrel this evening using the barrel vise since I had reinstalled my scope base while I was waiting on my barrel to be mailed back to me. What a frustrating experience. I know some of you use barrel vises, but I just could not keep the action from turning when I tried to tighten down the barrel nut after I had it headspaced.

I finally just took off the scope base, popped it in the action wrench, and had it completed in just a few minutes.

I know some of you experts will flame me on how it should not have been that difficult, but I'm sticking with the action wrench from this point on if I can help it.

I have the same Viper barrel vise and a Wheeler action wrench. I use some brass shims on the Viper to make sure nothing gets marred. And yeah...I have to put a cheater bar on the Wheeler and hold it in place while tightening the nut. If you wanted to leave the scope on I suppose you could put a padded bar through the action slots and hold it steady enough....but it's a risk.

I don't mind pulling a scope off to do work these days. Use some tape and mark the reference points where it was installed. Just part of the process....

I have a few barrel vises!

The one I use the most is my shop vice, and I have a selection of Oak 2x4's I made 4x4x2 blocks out of. I cut them down the center with a band saw, put them in the vise and drilled out a hole in the middle of the cut (using a drill press) that was a just a little smaller than my barrel OD. Put the barrel inside the drilled holes, tighten up the vise, I will assure you the barrel is not moving. If you have one that's close not letting you clamp completely, take a manila file folder and cut out a 2" section about of the OD of your barrel. Put this cut piece around the barrel (tape lightly), the put it back in the oak block, clamp down, and for me it's always held, "never" slipped, and has "never" damaged a barrel! I do have a "heavy duty" pro shop vise. Don't bother with a "Harbor Freight" economy model.

You guys don't mention how large your vise is. 6", 8"?? I am sure my 4" won't cut it.

I just changed out a barrel using the action vice you describe. Of course I had to remove the scope and base first but to my surprise I found the front two base screws loose despite having used loctite during assembly. So there is some benefit to have to disassemble everything, it provides an opportunity to do a thorough review of my materials, methods and procedures, and in this case they were insufficient.

BTW: I use a 6 inch heavy bench vice and 24 inch breaker bar on the barrel nut. Comes in handy as Savage apparently employs a part time gorilla on the assembly line. :o

A barrel vise certainly would have worked for me if it is all I had, I just found the action wrench much easier to use, aside from having to remove the scope base that I foolishly installed while I was waiting on my barrel to return.

I know it is all in what we become used to.

The actual vise, I re-installed the barrel on a small 4 inch vise on my reloading bench. I removed the barrel initially on my much larger vise I have in the barn. There would have been no way to have removed it with the action clamped into my little vise as the nut was on much tighter than the first rifle. I would have had to use the bar that came with the action wrench if I did not have the larger vise. On my first barrel swap, I had to remove a smooth barrel nut on the 12FV. It was the only 12FV I bought that had a smooth nut. It came of very easy with a pipe wrench and the barrel screwed out effortlessly. On this last action, the slotted nut was on somewhat tight and I even had a hard time unscrewing the nut off the barrel once I had the barrel out of the action due to all the crud. So, my first experience was much easier than this last one.

I had picked up a Wheeler Action Wrench quite a while back. Used it one time and never again. Had it on a stainless small shank action. It was tight enough that I had to loosen it to turn the barrel and to stop the squealing as it turned. Never again. Can't sell it because it would cost more than I paid for it to ship.
Now, barrel gets chucked up in a "padded" bench vice, nut wrench gets smacked with a steel hammer to brake loose then the process gets reversed. A good "smack" with steel hammer on steel nut wrench and it's tight enough. I've probably done a dozen or so and NEVER had a barrel come loose. Each action is marked and the barrel gets the same markings. Usually a Magic Marker and blue tape. Head space is set "on the snug side" with brass as all of my rigs are Wildcats. No New factory ammo available.

I have found that using both the Barrel Vice, the Action Wrench along with the Nut Wrench obviously, that is is very easy to maintain the desired headspace with out he barrel or the action "walking" on me.

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Originally Posted by NicfromAlabama

I know some of you experts will flame me on how it should not have been that difficult, but I'm sticking with the action wrench from this point on if I can help it.

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Au contraire...
I use both an action wrench, and barrel vise. "Either-or" risks one of them rotating when tightening the nut. I slide the nut wrench up the barrel, place it in the vise, hold the receiver with the action wrench to keep it from rotating and torque the nut.

After doing it both ways I don't see how you can accurately, and without cussing up a storm, do it without both vice and action wrench. I guess you could try and guess how much the action/barrel will turn and try to preload it first...but what a PITA.

I also did it in a bizarre way once. I cut a tiny sliver of brass and torqued it down in the scope mount hole closest to the barrel. It did hold the action in place but I could not get the slug out afterwards. So I ended up taking it apart and getting all the right tools. I wish I knew a way to perfect that method as it really held the spacing...

I mounted the action wrench to the bench by bolting it in the 1/2-20 holes from underneath. Using about 1/2 of the thread hole depth for thread engagement, leaving plenty for the clamping bolts.
Often have thought about milling out the block to clear the scope base. Saw where someone did this on one of the forums.
As far as head spacing goes, once I feel I am there with the nut just "snug", I remove the gauge and mark the nut & barrel on the bottom with a sharpie. Then torque the nut. Often the barrel turns some with the nut. I then make a second mark on the barrel corresponding to the existing mark on the nut. Then back off the nut and barrel. On the second go around I try to have the barrel backed off about the distance between the marks when the nut is again snugged. The next torque should bring the original barrel mark to the bottom as originally marked. Then close the bolt on the go gauge and check. Usually one or two tries will get you there.
Using this method often I will set two or three chambers the same to use the same "bump" in resizing die.

Interesting hearing everyone's techniques. Also, this may be a stupid question, but I replaced the factory recoil lug with one I had from Northland Shooters Supply. I decided to just use the original barrel nut. (I wished they sold ones to match the factory bluing.) Of course, it is a bit thicker. I sort of assumed that once I did that, the orientation of the writing stamped on the barrel may not be where it was before. I did not even think about it, but remembered and looked after I had the rifle all back together, scope mounted and in the stock. It is right on the money where it is supposed to be. I assume that was not a fluke.

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Originally Posted by NicfromAlabama

Interesting hearing everyone's techniques. Also, this may be a stupid question, but I replaced the factory recoil lug with one I had from Northland Shooters Supply. I decided to just use the original barrel nut. (I wished they sold ones to match the factory bluing.) Of course, it is a bit thicker. I sort of assumed that once I did that, the orientation of the writing stamped on the barrel may not be where it was before. I did not even think about it, but remembered and looked after I had the rifle all back together, scope mounted and in the stock. It is right on the money where it is supposed to be. I assume that was not a fluke.

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It's not a fluke. THink about it for a sec... Your barrel was properly head spaced to THAT action at the factory. Then, you reinstalled it on the SAME action at home... To do so, you had to turn the barrel the same number of rotations on the same threads to headspace it. The lug was thicker, but that only changed where your barrel nut stopped, not where you stopped turning the barrel into the action. My guess is the nut is turned differently, but who knows or cares? ;)

Now, it might not fit a DIFFERENT action or line up "properly" when headspacing to a different action.

Yep, makes total sense. Was hung up on recoil lug being thicker, which doesn't matter. Duh.:p

I have moments like that every now and again.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

I have found that using both the Barrel Vice, the Action Wrench along with the Nut Wrench obviously, that is is very easy to maintain the desired headspace with out he barrel or the action "walking" on me.

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This is how I do it also. If you ever do any axis rebarrels you really need all three.


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I’ll throw this out there, as just quickly scrolling through the responses I’m not sure I saw anyone use this method. The NSS Action Wrench/Vice is designed to be used two ways. One with, or one without the handle. I never use the handle. I clamp the bottom bracket that actually has flats cut into for a vice, into the vice. Action gets installed upside down in bottom bracket. Install top bracket on action with the provided action screw to locate it, then bolt it down making sure to keep the gaps even on both sides. Slide the barrel nut wrench down the barrel. Install torque wrench or breaker bar and wrench the nut off the barrel. I have never, ever had an issue getting a barrel off or putting a barrel on using this method. You do not have to clamp your barrel with anything. This also assumes you have a large enough vice mounted to a sturdy enough bench. Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

Model12BVSS, What you do is what many of us started out doing. That or using a barrel vise and nut wrench only. The single purpose IMHO is chasing correct head space. It can be done easily your way however some of us use all three to ensure that the barrel and the action junction does not rotate(alter the head space setting) while tightening the nut.

What can and does happen is the surface/contact area between the threads on the nut and on the barrel is enough to cause the barrel to rotate with the nut as it begins to tighten, thus altering the desired head space setting. Having the barrel and the action under control while tightening the nut seems to deter the chance of rotation. Not a perfect solution but effective enough. while you may see no need others like having the same head space for same caliber rifles or simply knowing exactly where you set your head space. Some don't anneal, some do. Some have no use in getting their charges very close or seating their primers a certain way, some do. It is all up to you.

Good advice.

Good advice. I had a gunsmith install my first barrel but even he had a difficult time getting the old barrel off. I ordered the action wrench as I am pretty sure I can do a swap myself. Hey NicfromAlabama! Your just down the road from me. Lawrence Co.

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Originally Posted by rmkey

Good advice. I had a gunsmith install my first barrel but even he had a difficult time getting the old barrel off. I ordered the action wrench as I am pretty sure I can do a swap myself. Hey NicfromAlabama! Your just down the road from me. Lawrence Co.

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Rmkey,

Good to see some members from my neck of the woods.:thumb:

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

Model12BVSS, What you do is what many of us started out doing. That or using a barrel vise and nut wrench only. The single purpose IMHO is chasing correct head space. It can be done easily your way however some of us use all three to ensure that the barrel and the action junction does not rotate(alter the head space setting) while tightening the nut.

What can and does happen is the surface/contact area between the threads on the nut and on the barrel is enough to cause the barrel to rotate with the nut as it begins to tighten, thus altering the desired head space setting. Having the barrel and the action under control while tightening the nut seems to deter the chance of rotation. Not a perfect solution but effective enough. while you may see no need others like having the same head space for same caliber rifles or simply knowing exactly where you set your head space. Some don't anneal, some do. Some have no use in getting their charges very close or seating their primers a certain way, some do. It is all up to you.

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I can definitely see the advantages of using both if your trying to make sure the headspace setting doesn’t change and the barrel doesn’t move when tightening the barrel nut. I usually just try to compensate for it and it works out for me. I’m not a benchrest shooter I shoot PRS so as long as my reloads still shoot .5 MOA or so when I spin the barrel back on I’m a happy camper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OP0XuvWR_Q

These guys (Criterion) say a barrel vise is not recommended. If and when I ever do a barrel swap it will most likely be a Criterion barrel and tools from NSS. I think I will still use a barrel vise with in conjunction with the other tools.

I see two problems with the "Criterion" method. I personally would not torque with the bolt closed. If the barrel walks with the nut (and they most times do) the gauge could damage the chamber. If it does not walk it would most likely end up a hair looser than snug. This most likely would pass both gauge tests and be ok but not "exactly" snug like a person would think. Thread fit often determines how much it loosens from snug to torqued. It is not always the same so a check with shims on the go gauge will tell you how much.
I often set several rifles the same to be able to use the same bump settings on my sizing dies.
If speed in setting headspace is a priority then my system in an earlier post won't work for you. Sometimes it takes me an extra try or two to get it just right.
Using all three tools will get you there also once you figure out how much it loosens when torquing. Then a slight adjustment should get you "close" on the first try.
To me headspacing to satisfy the gauges is not close enough in most cases.
Imho

In addition, there are some "cheap" gauges out there (like ones in Shaw kits) that are more likely to do chamber damage then others with the taper cut on them.

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I have never used a barrel vise on any Savage style barrel swap,I only use an action vise,nut wrench,and a 4lb dead blow hammer. I don't install the action vise on the action until the barrel/barrel nut is screwed on the action,and the head space is set with the barrel nut finger tight. I wrap a couple layers of blue painters tape around the action before I put it in the action vise,and then tighten the action vise bolts down TIGHT.

If you tighten the action wrench bolts down correctly,the barrel cannot move at all when you tighten the barrel nut. I've done a couple dozen barrel swaps/installs over the years,and have never had any head space issues just using an action wrench to do it. If your barrel can still turn with an action wrench installed on the action,you need to tighten the bolts on the action wrench more!

Txhillbilly,
Having observed exactly what are describing will lead me to try what you are doing. Having noticed if I tighten my action wrench (vice) too much I cannot freely spin the barrel when setting headspace. The extra torque must deform the reciever somewhat. That being said I always loosen it at that point. If tightening after setting headspace keeps it from "walking" then it may make my method a little easier.
Thanks for the tip. I have a couple switches coming up this month so I am going to try your method.
Happy New Year

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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie

I had picked up a Wheeler Action Wrench quite a while back. Used it one time and never again. Had it on a stainless small shank action. It was tight enough that I had to loosen it to turn the barrel and to stop the squealing as it turned. Never again. Can't sell it because it would cost more than I paid for it to ship.
Now, barrel gets chucked up in a "padded" bench vice, nut wrench gets smacked with a steel hammer to brake loose then the process gets reversed. A good "smack" with steel hammer on steel nut wrench and it's tight enough. I've probably done a dozen or so and NEVER had a barrel come loose. Each action is marked and the barrel gets the same markings. Usually a Magic Marker and blue tape. Head space is set "on the snug side" with brass as all of my rigs are Wildcats. No New factory ammo available.

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did you not tape your action with electrical tape? I have now used NSS action wrench which I believe is just like the wheeler and had zero issues. Line up the recoil lug. Snug down the action wrench screws. Take nut off. Pretty easy with no "squealing"....

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Originally Posted by Txhillbilly

I have never used a barrel vise on any Savage style barrel swap,I only use an action vise,nut wrench,and a 4lb dead blow hammer. I don't install the action vise on the action until the barrel/barrel nut is screwed on the action,and the head space is set with the barrel nut finger tight. I wrap a couple layers of blue painters tape around the action before I put it in the action vise,and then tighten the action vise bolts down TIGHT.

If you tighten the action wrench bolts down correctly,the barrel cannot move at all when you tighten the barrel nut. I've done a couple dozen barrel swaps/installs over the years,and have never had any head space issues just using an action wrench to do it. If your barrel can still turn with an action wrench installed on the action,you need to tighten the bolts on the action wrench more!

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I cant disagree with this statement more...Actually the directions say you do not want those screws to tight as it can damage the receiver and if you are tightening them so tight as to make the barrel hard to turn, then you are 100% stressing the receiver. The recoil lug fits in the action wrench slot as to not allow the receiver to spin anyways so why tighten it so much? I have not done as many barrel swaps as you but I have done a few and never needed to turn the bolts on the action wrench so tight as to not be able to turn the barrel into the receiver......

Bigeclipse,
I looked up the wheeler instructions and you are 100% correct. It says you can bend or crush the reciever.
Guess I will continue as always and spend 2 or 3 extra minutes dialing the headspace just the way I want it. I've only changed maybe 100 or so but always looking to learn a "better way".
My barrel vise and action "vise" are mounted on the same bench but not concentric to each other, if they were I would use both like others on here. Guess I'll stick with what works.
Thanks for the heads up.