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Hi all,
I am thinking of re barreling my old 270 to some sort of 270 wildcat. Which is is the fastest based on that case? Gibbs, AI, Hawk? Are there more? I'd like to be able to use production dies too. . . I have way too many components to not use the 270 case.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Adam
If you plan on using 270 brass instead of 30-06 brass, it won't be a true 30-06 based wildcat. 270 brass is longer than 30-06. It can be trimed back though.
Either way, depends on your purpose for the rifle. small calibers for speed, larger calibers for power. Neck it up, neck it down, blow it out for more case capacity.
Having said all that, its really hard to beat a 25-06AI when talking about 30-06 based wildcats....if your looking for power.....35 Whelen AI.
270 brass can be used for 280AI also for a 7mm option...also a very good wildcat. 280 and 270 are the same length
What are you going to do with it ??
I don't see the reasoning here, because there is just not that much difference in a 270 and what you want to do.
I guess if I were going to set up one off a 30-06 shell, maybe a 270 AI for light barnes bullets or a 280 AI with an 8 twist barrel to shoot 180 gr bullets.
I guess you could go 6mm/06 which would be a barrel burner.
Just resize 25-06 brass and good to go.
If you want a speed demon wildcat 270 caliber I would build a 270/375 ruger and maybe AI it.
You could also do a 270 weatherby magnum but it has a belt.
270/375 ruger is a bit different and they make 85 and 95 gr barnes bullets.
I got 3700 fps out of the 270 weatherby with 85 gr barnes bullets, and with RL17 I probably could have gotten 3800+
The 375 ruger is good brass.
Should have been more specific. . .
I want to use 2700 brass only, and use .277 cal bullets, specifically 140 grn Accubonds and 160 Partitions.
A longer range deer and antelope rifle is what I have in mind.
I'm not sure I'll get much velocity gain, but are the specifics I'm trying to figure out.
Thought about the 375 Ruger wildcat, but have so much 270 win brass. . .
IMO you just wont get that much out of an improved 270 win to make it worth the expense of a new barrel.
If you are just going to ream a barrel you already have then not such a big deal.
Have you tried RL17 yet. You could probably get another 100 fps with it.
The new power pro powders should get you +150 fps. That might work in a 270 AI pretty well.
Actually if it were me in a long action I would be looking at a 280 AI to shoot the 162 gr amax. A great bullet and its cheap.
Has a BC of something like .625.
I shot a 250#+ hog at 300 yards with the 162 gr amax in a 7mm-08 and it blew through him like a freight train.
You could probably get about 2950-3000 fps out of a 162 amax in a 280 AI with a 24-26" barrel.
I agree that the 284's are better. . . If I had grown up shooting something other than the 270, I probably would use one. But I just have too much history with the 270 to abandon it now!
I figured while I was rebarreling (mostly for contour and accuracy, upgrade from factory tube, Winchester Mod 70), I might look at the wildcats. Not much available though. . . Benchmark (the company I will have do the work) is producing faster barrels anyhow. I'll be money ahead to just use a standard 270 for sure.
Any other input though?
Hi Adam
Have to go with the 270 Gibbs for an 06 sized case. Just about impossible to beat and takes a lot of powder and barrel to do it. Rocky Gibbs developed this cartridge to win a speed bet and from the research the Incredible Gibbs line evolved.
One can not use the same die with this or any other wildcat.
I really think the 270WSM is about as efficient and effective improvement for the modern 270's. It is a screamer and everything is readily available from cases,dies and load data.
Neal
I can't seem to locate any good velocity data. Where are you guys looking stuff up at?
I agree about the WSM, it really does great things win compared to it's '06 based counter parts. . .
Still thinking about a 338 by the way Neal, but not for a while ;)
Oh, sent an email to RCBS looking for info too. I'll try and post up here what I find.
130 Gr. Hornady SST 3290 / 3124 +1.11 / 3066 / 2714 +0.00 / 2851 / 2346 -5.38 / 2645 / 2019 -15.76 / 2448 / 1729 -31.91 / 2261 / 1476
130 Gr. BTSP 3290 / 3124 +1.11 / 3061 / 2704 +0.00 / 2841 / 2330 -5.42 / 2630 / 1996 -15.89 / 2429 / 1703 -32.23 / 2239 / 1447
130 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3280 / 3105 +1.15 / 3034 / 2656 +0.00 / 2798 / 2259 -5.59 / 2573 / 1910 -16.49 / 2359 / 1607 -33.54 / 2159 / 1345
130 Gr. Swift Scirocco 3295 / 3133 +1.12 / 3058 / 2698 +0.00 / 2830 / 2311 -5.46 / 2612 / 1969 -16.05 / 2405 / 1669 -32.61 / 2209 / 1409
130 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3290 / 3124 +1.12 / 3053 / 2690 +0.00 / 2825 / 2304 -5.48 / 2607 / 1962 -16.10 / 2400 / 1663 -32.72 / 2205 / 1404
130 Gr. Nosler Partition 3280 / 3105 +1.15 / 3034 / 2656 +0.00 / 2798 / 2259 -5.59 / 2573 / 1910 -16.49 / 2359 / 1607 -33.54 / 2159 / 1345
130 Gr. Barnes XBT 3260 / 3067 +1.14 / 3040 / 2668 +0.00 / 2829 / 2310 -5.48 / 2626 / 1990 -16.03 / 2432 / 1708 -32.42 / 2249 / 1460
130 Gr. Barnes TSX 3300 / 3143 +1.09 / 3079 / 2736 +0.00 / 2866 / 2371 -5.32 / 2662 / 2045 -15.57 / 2446 / 1755 -31.53 / 2281 / 1502
130 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3270 / 3086 +1.22 / 2975 / 3554 +0.00 / 2695 / 2096 -6.04 / 2431 / 1706 -17.94 / 2186 / 1379 -37.17 / 1958 / 1107
140 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3190 / 3163 +1.24 / 2959 / 2721 +0.00 / 2737 / 2329 -5.88 / 2525 / 1982 -17.25 / 2325 / 1680 -35.00 / 2136 / 1418
140 Gr. Barnes XBT 3165 / 3113 +1.24 / 2962 / 2727 +0.00 / 2767 / 2379 -5.78 / 2579 / 2067 -16.82 / 2399 / 1789 -33.85 / 2228 / 1544
140 Gr. Barnes TSX 3190 / 3163 +1.21 / 2986 / 2772 +0.00 / 2790 / 2419 -5.67 / 2601 / 2103 -16.51 / 2420 / 1821 -33.25 / 2249 / 1572
140 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3200 / 3183 +1.22 / 2978 / 2756 +0.00 / 2765 / 2375 -5.76 / 2560 / 2037 -16.78 / 2366 / 1740 -34.13 / 2182 / 1480
140 Gr. Nosler AccuBond 3200 / 3183 +1.22 / 2978 / 2756 +0.00 / 2765 / 2375 -5.76 / 2560 / 2037 -16.78 / 2366 / 1740 -34.13 / 2182 / 1480
140 Gr. Nosler Partition 3200 / 3183 +1.23 / 2968 / 2739 +0.00 / 2746 / 2344 -5.84 / 2534 / 1996 -17.12 / 2333 / 1692 -34.75 / 2144 / 1428
140 Gr. Hornady SST 3200 / 3183 +1.22 / 2978 / 2756 +0.00 / 2765 / 2375 -5.76 / 2560 / 2037 -16.78 / 2366 / 1740 -34.13 / 2182 / 1480
140 Gr. TBBC 3190 / 3163 +1.35 / 2879 / 2576 +0.00 / 2585 / 2077 -6.59 / 2311 / 1660 -19.68 / 2058 / 1317 -41.04 / 1825 / 1036
140 Gr. BTSP 3200 / 3183 +1.20 / 2991 / 2781 +0.00 / 2790 / 2420 -5.66 / 2597 / 2097 -16.51 / 2413 / 1809 -33.29 / 2238 / 1556
150 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3010 / 3017 +1.54 / 2757 / 2531 +0.00 / 2516 / 2108 -7.06 / 2290 / 1746 -20.72 / 2079 / 1439 -42.50 / 1881 / 1178
150 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3020 / 3037 +1.43 / 2822 / 2652 +0.00 / 2631 / 2306 -6.48 / 2449 / 1997 -18.79 / 2276 / 1724 -37.68 / 2111 / 1484
150 Gr. BTSP 3080 / 3159 +1.36 / 2872 / 2746 +0.00 / 2671 / 2376 -6.25 / 2479 / 2047 -18.15 / 2297 / 1757 -36.81 / 2125 / 1503
150 Gr. Hornady SST 3080 / 3159 +1.35 / 2880 / 2762 +0.00 / 2687 / 2404 -6.17 / 2502 / 2084 -17.92 / 2326 / 1801 -36.03 / 2159 / 1552
150 Gr. RN 3090 / 3180 +1.61 / 2726 / 2474 +0.00 / 2388 / 1900 -7.71 / 2081 / 1442 -23.52 / 1803 / 1082 -50.12 / 1556 / 807
150 Gr. Barnes X 3000 / 2997 +1.47 / 2801 / 2612 +0.00 / 2609 / 2267 -6.60 / 2426 / 1960 -19.08 / 2252 / 1689 -38.40 / 2087 / 1450
150 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3090 / 3180 +1.33 / 2889 / 2780 +0.00 / 2696 / 2421 -6.12 / 2511 / 2099 -17.78 / 2334 / 1815 -35.77 / 2167 / 1563
150 Gr. Nosler Partition 3020 / 3037 +1.45 / 2809 / 2628 +0.00 / 2607 / 2263 -6.60 / 2414 / 1940 -19.13 / 2231 / 1657 -38.65 / 2058 / 1410
160 Gr. Nosler Partition 2970 / 3133 +1.56 / 2746 / 679 +0.00 / 2533 / 2278 -7.00 / 2330 / 1929 -20.37 / 2140 / 1626 -41.38 / 1960 / 1365
Based on that Neal, I am seeing about 150-200 fps difference in the Gibbs and the standard 270. That's good for 100 more yards when looking at the 2000ft/lb mark. . . That is not insignificant out here in WY. . .
I may have to see if Benchmark has a 270 Gibbs reamer on hand, and if I can find some dies. . . Still hard to swallow the $150 for the dies though.
One more question, just to be clear, I can fireform brass for the Gibbs from a standard Case?
Thought it all copied.
This data is for the 270WSM. Sorry.
Dies for the 270 Gibbs or something just like it are $80.@ CH4D. I have the reamer. McGowen has the reamers.
Neal
So this is WSM and not Gibbs Data? Hmmm. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by 358Hammer
Thanks for the tip on the dies, that site is great!
This was sent to me a couple days ago from South Texas Adam.
It is a 7mm version of the same concept.
RL17 Again?
9/18/10
Hide details Trace RayTo Neal Cooper
Sent: Sat 9/18/10 1:37 PM
To: Neal Cooper (ncooper@gci.net)
7CE. 140NBT. 59.6gr RL17. 2975fps. .452 group. 16" Encore no less.
Thanks for all the help Neal.
RCBS wrote back and said they cannot give dimensions or drawings.
Anyhow, I think based on the numbers I'll just do a standard 270 win and save my money for other projects. 200 fps was worth it, but 50-100 is not for me.
Thanks for all the help everyone,
Adam
Load you 270 win up with some RL17 or one of the new pro power powders.
RL17 is generally worth 50-75 fps and the pro power powders about 100-150+ fps.
I have experience with RL17 and its impressive in a 308 shooting a 208 gr amax.
The power pro powders are so new there is little info on them, but since I am low on RL17
I might just go that route.
I'll try those powders at some point. Thanks for that tip too!
I have loaded RL17 in 243, 308 and 338-06.
In general it seems like RL17 works best with heavy long bullets, or the medium to long barnes bullets
and overbores with medium heavy bullets pretty well. I got great numbers out of the 243 with the barnes 80 gr bullets.
RL17 should work well in a 270 with a 160 gr bullet, but not sure if you would see a gain from the 140 gr bullets.
The power pro powders come in different flavors so you might be able to bump up the FPS for both bullets with it.
Most of the articles I have read on the power pro powders have shown about a 150 FPS improvement.
Which would you use with the 270? Large or Medium rifle?
I dont know.
I emailed Alliant with some questions and never got a return email.
I am sure there will be some new loads popping up soon.
The Alliant site does have a 270 RL17 load for a speer 150 grainer at about 2920.
They also have a load for 130 gr and 140 gr bullets.
They have a 130 gr fusion load with 2000MR at 3020
The RL17 load beats it at 3130.
They have a 100 gr speer load with RL17 and 2000MR
RL17 load is 3554.
Hmmm, Maybe RL17 works better in the 270 win.
Might want to look around over there.
Also I find there loads to be a bit conservative so you can probably get more out of it..
Like in 308 I am basically running the 208 gr amax at the load of 48.7 they list for a 180 gr BTSP
but I am running it at 2.95" compared to alliant at 2.8. Both 22" barrels and I am getting 2575-2600 with the 208 gr amax and alliant
2640 or so with the 180 gr BTSP
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...3&bulletid=180
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...3&bulletid=180
Just a note....probably not any help and a little late, but here goes. I just had McGowen chamber one of their barrels for 270 Gibbs. So far I am still fire forming brass, and yes you can use 270 Win Brass to do it with. Although, I have had a tough time with shoulders splitting. I have gone to annealing the neck and shoulders on all my cases and lubing them with Imperial size wax to fireform. I've been having good luck since this change. I've been using 54 grs of W760 to fireform with cheap 130 gr bullets loaded to full jam length. Once fireformed, I intend to try IMR4350 and H4831. If you look in P.O. Ackley's books they show 130 gr bullets at 3400fps. This is just about the same if not a little over what a 270 Weatherby will do if memory serves me right. Hope that helps some.
I actually have not rebarreled the gun yet, so still interested in this. Keep me posted please! I'd love to run 140's and 150's at well over 3000fps. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by mudpig
Adam
I will do that. Almost done with the fireforming and should be working on loads this spring. In Ackley's book I believe he quoted Gibbs' 140 gr loads in the 3300 range and 150's in 3200 range. That was enough improvement to make the upgrade from my standard 270 Win. I too had a ton of brass around. I got my reloading dies from Redding. They were a little spendy, but they will last forever.
How did you headspace the Gibbs?
I've got a Savage rifle so just screwed the barrel down until I made contact with the "GO" gauge I purchase from PTG. Go gauge cost me $30 if I remember right
Duh, didn't even think of a gauge from PTG.
Here's what I think I'll do:
Rebarrel the Winchester to a standard 270 Win in an ultralight contour and have a lightweight rifle.
Down the road some time, build a 270 Gibbs on a Savage so I have less in gunsmith charges and can get rid of the thing easier. This will be a long range hunting type set up and fill a different niche in my needs.
This will allow me to get some performance from a barrel and a new set of dies. No new brass, no hard to find action, no new bullet dia, etc. While I'm at it I may look into the nitride coating and pick up some speed there.
I just built a 338 Win, so my long range is covered for now.
Thanks again for all the input on this guys,
Adam
Let me know how that nitride coating work. I've read about that as being better than moly. Haven't tried moly either, but was going to.
+1 I'm really interested in seeing figures on a nitrided barrel versus standard CM or stainless.
Most of the loads I see on loaddata for the 270 gibbs are around 3200 with the max at 3280
I would try RL17 and you could probably get to 3400 + with a long barrel.
I dont have my barrel yet, but alliant has a 130 gr RL17 load running at 3135 at 3.2" col.
I have found with RL17 you can push their load data a good bit so it should be easy to hit 3200.
If you dont have access to loaddata I can post the load info here.
Hi my personal favorate is 90gr sierra propelled by 55gr of varget, I have hit 3600 plus on the chrono with excelint grouping and without mutilating the brass or needing a prybar to lift the bolt.
As allways re loaders beware.
Dean