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Most of my dies are entry level and I need to upgrade soon for .308 and .22-250. No point in pursuing accuracy with Lee or bottom line RCBS. I have a limited budget so does anyone have a suggestion for intermediate priced dies for these calibers? I am looking at Hornady New Dimension Match grade for .308 and don't really see anyone making "match grade for 22-250. I am not a competition shooter by any stretch just looking for sub-moa accuracy. Any suggestions?
No reason you can't get the accuracy you're looking for out of the dies you have currently unless there is something actually wrong with them....
That being said, my preference is Forster or Redding.
a precision scale is what I would buy first
I do have a digital scale Lyman I think and a triple beam to verify the electronic ones. I use Forrester for my 260 but I am looking to upgrade my 22-250 and 308 dies. I like the idea of neck size bushings and a micrometer seater. Everyone has 308 but not necessarily 22-250 competition grade. Just wondering what folks preferences are.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB68
Before you take that plunge, you might want to invest in a Lee Collet neck sizing die. The cost is under $30 and you might be very surprised at the minimal runout you will get. Other than that, I would suggest Redding, if they make it in your size, The Competition die is really good.
in my opinion the micrometer seaters are completely unnecessary.... They take just as long to set up as a standard seating die and the lines on them are "close" at best. I would go with a Forster Bushing-Bump Sizing die and a Forester seater. They get the job done without issue for the average guy.
THANKS you just saved me as i was about to get a rcbs with micrometer. I don’t have money to waste on something that is not necessary. Your suggestion is exactly what i use with 260 and they do seem to be good. It’s just that micrometer sitting on the seating die looks like precision!Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
FWIW-I have loaded thousands or rounds with the lee dies..I admit i'm not to fond of their
press's,but still use one as well as one of the RCBS partner press's...In my opinion
you do not need a huge heavy press unless your getting in buller swaging or maye 50 cal...
I would recommend searching eBay for a case concentricity gauge. In my 22-250, I have a basic RCBS seating die and a Forster benchrest seating die. Granted I have the RCBS set up for 60gr Vmax and the Forster for 53gr Vmax, but I consistently get less then .001" run-out with the RCBS and .002"-.003" with the Forster.
I would check to see if there is a problem before you reinvent the wheel. There are different seating techniques to help minimize it also. I prefer to move my ram up until I just get the base to start seating, then I bring the ram back down an inch and slowly seat back up to my final depth. The way I see it, if you are misaligned slightly, you can put pressure on one side of the neck or the other while seating in one motion, causing bullet jacket scraping, but if you just get it started, take the pressure of your bullet, I find it recenters itself and slides down the neck a bit straighter.
For the 22-250, anything you can do to help not damage the thin varmint jacket will help.
SHM
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I've never checked for concentricity. Believe it is a small factor to consider if all your other practices are good... In fact, I doubt I'll ever own a concentricity gauge...Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguyshm
The biggest cause of neck runout is when the expander is locked down off center and the expander pulls the case neck off center.
At the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases using non-bushing full length dies.
A Lee die has a decapper clamp that "should' center the expander when tightened unlike the RCBS type with slop in the threads and a locking nut that will allow a off center expander.
Any time you reduce the neck diameter .004 or more with a bushing die it will induce neck runout. And why you are told to reduce the diameter in two steps when reducing the neck diameter .004 or more.
The Forster full length benchrest dies have a high mounted floating expander that can not pull your case necks off center. The case neck is held and centered in the die when the expander enters the case neck and makes the most concentric cases of "ANY" type die I have ever used.
Bottom line, forget any bushing type dies and buy the Forster benchrest dies. Runout is worse with any type neck sizing die because the body and neck of the case are not fully supported.
Below I retrofitted Forster expander and spindle assemblies to all my older RCBS dies. The RCBS expander on the left is raised as high as it will move compared to the Forster assembly that fits RCBS dies.
https://i.imgur.com/5kfnKwd.jpg
Below a modified Forster expander and spindle assembly fitted to a Redding full length die. Why drag that long Redding expander through the case neck and induce neck runout. A rubber O-ring has been added below the lock ring to allow the expander to float. And the spindle was cut shorter to allow the expander to enter the case neck when it is held in the die.
https://i.imgur.com/kWbieba.jpg
Also Forster is the only die manufacture that will hone the neck of the die to your desired diameter "IF" you think it is overworking the brass.
Bottom line, if you want concentric cases with little to no neck runout then try a Forster full length benchrest die and seating die and save money.
https://i.imgur.com/Y7Iyv8o.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MomXeUI.gif
Also full length resizing gives the cartridge "wiggle room" for the bullet to be self aligning with the bore. And I belong to the Rat turd in the violin case club. :cool:
Below Kevin Thomas of Team Lapua USA and who also worked in the Sierra ballistic test lab.
https://i.imgur.com/Y3IiYL5.jpg
Below German Salazar from the "Rifleman's Journal is answering a question about "partial full length resizing". And he is explaining the benefits of full length resizing and how it helps minimize the effects of neck runout. Also the military considers .003 or less neck runout to be match grade ammunition.
Reloading: Partial Neck Sizing
by German A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...ck-sizing.html
"Now the last scenario, a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway."
My point being it doesn't do any good to neck size a case that warped and became banana shaped after firing. Full length resizing helps reduce the effects of a case with unequal case wall thicknesses meaning the average Remchester case. And a runout gauge can check for warped cases.
Its a shame but American quality control is governed by the company shareholders and a major reason why so many people buy Lapua brass.
NECO CONCENTRICITY, WALL THICKNESS AND RUNOUT GAUGE http://www.neconos.com/NEWDIAL2.JPG
Also referred to as "The Case Gauge," this item is designed to measure:1) The curved "banana" shape of the cartridge case;
2) The relative wall thickness variation of a cartridge case;
3) The cartridge case head out-of-squareness;
4) Individual Bullets - out-of-round "egg shape" and/or
curved "banana" shape (excepting very small bullets);
5) The seated bullet and cartridge runout of loaded rounds. The accuracy of any firearm is determined -- and limited -- by the quality of the ammunition shot in it. The effect of imperfections in ammunition is cumulative; each flaw adds to the influence of all others. Precision shooters spend much time and effort "uniforming" cartridge cases, using advanced techniques to eliminate variation. Yet until recently, one of the most important of these variations has not been susceptible to detection by any device readily available to marksmen.
Normal manufacturing tolerances cause brass cartridge cases to vary in wall thickness around the circumference of their bodies. Under the stress of firing, a case with such variation stretches more readily along its thin side, transferring more pressure to the bolt face at that point and introducing an unbalanced force which contributes to bolt whip and vibration of the barreled action in its bedding. This whip and vibration varies from one shot to the next as cartridges are fired with their thin sides randomly oriented at different angles, causing reduced accuracy. The problem is made even worse if the brass is too hard or springy to completely fireform to the shape of the chamber, in which event the greater stretching of the case's thin side will cause it to develop a curve along the length of its body. These "banana" cases cannot hold a bullet aligned with and centered in the bore, undercutting the effectiveness of the handloader's careful case preparation.
Fortunately the accuracy problems caused by wall-thickness variation can be minimized, or perhaps eliminated, if all cases are "indexed" -- fired with their thin sides always oriented the same direction in the chamber. This causes bolt whip to be minimized and consistent, and, while bullets will still be misaligned, they will all be misaligned the same way, which often produces accuracy like that of perfectly aligned and concentric ammunition.
^^^^ there’s more than one way to get results. I prefer to use a Forster Bushing-bump Die then follow it with a Sinclair .262 Mandrel Die for my 6.5x47
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yQuote:
Originally Posted by thatguyshm
Thanks much. I do use a concentracity gauge and I correct anything over .003 with .001 preferable.
I have been using Lee dies and full length resizing. It seems reasonable that if the cartridge is already expanded to chamber dimensions it could contribute to accuracy. So I did order the Forrester dies with the bushings and neck bump back.
Welcome back BigEd. Good to see you posting again.
I neck size my FV12 with a Lee collet die and get groups as small as 1/4''. When I full length I set my Lee FL die to barely set the shoulder back.
I have gotten 1/2 moa accuracy from lee and rcbs dies, hornady as well. All these rifles have one thing in common. A good custom barrel. The most important thing is to have a quality barrel,trigger and nut behind the trigger. Then, find a load your rifle likes. Minimally setting the shoulders,consistent powder charges. Use a balance beam and trickle. Most cheap electronic scales are junk. Seating the bullets 1/2 way and then spinning the case 180 to finnish seating is a neat little trick. I do like the hornady bullet seater on the new dimension dies.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkey
As for the fl, neck sizing debate. Go to the accurate shooter forum and see what the pro long range guys are doing. They are fls with bushing dies to control neck tension. They are turning necks. If you are using bushing dies with uneven neck wall thickness you are creating problems. They anneal cases. They use a good quality scale. They do use micrometer dies and or an arbor press to seat bullets. For these guys it's all about having consistent sizing and neck tension to have consistent bullet release. Low es and sd are the deal at long range. 30 fps is huge at 1000 yds.
The poor mans way is to use a body die and a lee collet die. Be prepared to polish the mandrell as I have not had one that gave enough neck tension to keep bullets from moving in mag without turning down the mandrell.
Erik Cortina Team Lapua USA, and member of the rat turd in the violin case club
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLG2kSrD40g
There are lots of ways to progress with your reloading skills, tools, and procedures. Thought I would mention I have gone the direction of Wilson hand dies. To get started and keep the cost down I use a drill press instead of an arbor press. It's not as portable as an arbor, but I don't need that portability and it's worked well enough I still don't have an arbor press. As mentioned above, I don't spend the extra on a micrometer seater. It's takes just a little more to get the length set, but once it's set, it's set. I'll suggest something different than dies that can start you down the road than dies though. Turn your necks. And if you don't have a comparator, buy a set that will measure off both the bullet ogive, and shoulder length. Those are fairly inexpensive to get started, even with your existing dies. Turn necks, use a comparator to get your setup exact even with your existing FL die, but get a seater that will support the entire case while seating. Nothing wrong with a good book too.
I'm not a pro or even a competitive shooter, except against myself. As a cheaper alternative when it comes to seating dies I like the Hornady Custom dies. They have that same floating bullet guide as some of the far more expensive competition dies do and I get really accurate ammo out of these dies. The bonus is they are under $40 AND Hornady throws in 100 bullets as a rebate off the selling price.
When reloading trying loads until you find the right one seems to be the key. No big trick to get to 1" with a hand loading kit provided a decent modern rifle in good condition. I always recommend a hand loading kit as the biggest accuracy improvement anyone can make to a rifle for the money spent. This being said, If you stop at 1" with a load in your rifle then your rifle will always be a 1" rifle. If you stop at 3/4" then the same applies. If you keep looking, then I have found most rifles I own have a magic combination, some easier to find than others.
With all this in mind, you can spend a heck of a lot more and get a lot less than a Lee Deluxe die set, Or even one of their starter kits.
It may take a little more patience to use some of the equipment like their powder scale which takes some time to settle after throwing a charge into the pan but it will indicate properly down to 1/20 of a grain. When used properly the Lee Precision equipment though inexpensive and often slower loads some darn fine ammo.
I used the deluxe die set to load my 116 hunting rifles best group of 10 rounds of 30-06 into .446 at 100 yards.
Not bad for an old flatback $400 factory hunting rig with a 3-9X40 VX2 and nothing done to it except a 3 screw trigger adjustment.
My 12BVSS consistently will hit a dime at 120 yards and has no problem doing it 10 times consecutively with ammo loaded with the Lee Deluxe die set. My 25-06 sporter with the 22" barrel bucks all what you read on the internet about a 25-06 "needing" a 26" barrel and has been slaying deer for over a decade putting one 110gr accubond after another into one ragged hole using ammo loaded with a Lee Deluxe die set. Heck even had a guy at the range try and trade me a Browning Gold Medallion for my old spray painted $300 flatback Savage beater after watching the hand loads being put into the 10 ring.
Needless to say in my opinion based on ammo I have loaded and tuned for my rifles you're barking up the wrong tree.
I have no affiliation or interest in Lee Precision except stellar results using their equipment.
Don't get discouraged if a combo that's lights out in another guys rifle doesn't work in yours just keep plugging away. When you find or sometimes even stumble onto the magic load you'll know it.
A lot of guys think accuracy is a question of money, I have found it doesn't take a pile of cash to shoot some very small groups. One of my favorite past times is taking a spray painted Savage sporter and some hand loads (loaded on Lee equipment) to the range and setting up next to big money loud talkers and tactifools. The fun usually begins the first time they peek at my targets after I've been listening to blah blah blah. Not all shooters are like this but the ones that are are easy enough to find. Excuses or rapidly packing up usually follows.
Good luck and I hope you find your magic loads easily and economically.
For casual shooting I dont think that dies will make nearly as much difference as load combos.
I have found full length sizing to be as accurate as neck sizing but I set the shoulder back just enough for not feeling any resistance when closing the bolt. I do use the Lee collet die because its easier and faster without using lube and the mess. I still FL size every 2 or 3 firings or the bolt gets tight. I follow Lee instructions and rotate the case 180 and size a 2nd time for consistency. I have an FV 22-250 26'' heavy barrel and can get 1/4'' groups as long as the brass isn't too old and virtually everything is under 1/2''. I have never annealed, though I should for longer useful case life. When using the collet die make sure to use a lot of force or bullet pull won't be consistent making accuracy poor. I also load .243, 6.5 CM and 300 WSM using the collet die and if I am careful with the charge and brass prep all will shoot under MOA. A good scale and a micrometer seating die will help a lot.
I think you need to start by sitting down and having a conversation with yourself.
Are you trying to satisfy your own needs? or are you trying to do that, while also impressing others?
Nothing wrong with either, but both would require a different approach at least to some degree.
Todays factory guns are capable of better groups than most of us can shoot, at least consistently.
I use a good quality press, but just the very basic full length dies. I do believe straight loads are important,
but i don't feel i need worry much about that for the type shooting i do. So i just rotate the case a couple times as i seat the bullet.
I have the tools to turn necks and the ability to use them. But in a factory chamber it would be akin to using hi test gas in your Chevy.
If it makes you feel better then do it, but be carefull you don't ruin your brass as a result.
For a hunter, even a long range hunter, a one hole gun and shooter are nice, but not really necessary.
A 1 inch gun and shooter will do just fine. Don't forget, a few will be in the center, and it only takes one.
Best to get really good at having 2 in the air at the same time. lol
Redding Premium Series 2-die has a .22-250. And Midway has it on sale right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkey
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...ries-2-die-set
They also carry the Redding Master Hunter (Match seating die) in .22-250
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/11...nter-2-die-set
I like the plain 'ol Redding Deluxe 3-die sets. I just have to use calipers and patience to set the bullet seater for a batch. But them I hand measure my powder, too. I find reloading relaxing and don't
Question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
Have you ever observed while working up loads, that the shots with say 35 grains of carefully measured powder, impact the 100 yd target in the same place as the carefully measured loads with say 34.5 grains?
I think guns are a lot like people, some will work and some wont.
The ones that will are easy, and the ones that wont are best gotten rid of asap.
I also think it would be a good idea for everybody who is bent on getting the best accuracy from their gun, to visit a varmit class benchrest match.
Not implying that they aren't fussy about how they load, but very carefully metering the powder dosent seem to be most important.
In fact you might have a hard time finding a scale being used.
I have talks with myself all the time and sometimes I don’t answer cause I don’t know. I have one year of reloading experience forty times. I am now retired and looking for something to do so I began reading how competition shooters reload.Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
Finally I have all the mics, concentricity gauges, neck turning, etc.
I am not trying to impress anyone in fact I am seeking advice from experienced shooters. I have 3 Savages, a 22-250, 260, 308. I do not hunt I only target shoot. My rifles were grouping around 1 moa or better but I thought that I would learn how to make my rounds more consistent in hopes of doing better. I have reached my self imposed goal of 0.5 moa with the 260. I haven’t got to the 308 yet but am working on the 22-250. I have Lee collet dies and Forester bushing neck bump. I have not used the Forrester yet as I have been doing case prep.
I want to exhaust every variable I can to make the best ammo. If the rifle still will not produce 0.5 moa then the problem is the rifle.
I use a lead sled to eliminate
error from my shooting. Once I see the gun still won’t produce 1/2 moa then I will replace the barrel with a Shilen in 6mm Br or 6.5x47 lapua. I suspect the 22-250 barrel is the problem as it is a 1:14 twist with a long freebore mandating the use of short light bullets making it impossible to seat to the lands, actually there is quite a bit of jump. But I understand some rifles shoot well with even minimum COAL. Hence my effort to produce the best possible reloads.
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"I have one year of reloading experience forty times."
I love that. May have to borrow it for myself.
I remember sitting with a board on the floor of my bedroom loading for a DCM .30-40 Krag that was handed down (still have it) with the old Lee Loader and a mallet. DuPont 4064 powder and a plastic scoop. I still smell it and when I hear the Beatle's Revolver Album it all comes back. By the time I got to Rubber Soul I had different ideas about what to get into my bedroom (and Chanel No.5 comes to my olfactory memory). ;-)
Load up some Sierra 52 gr HPBT (#1410) in your .22-250.
Years ago (1978ish) I had a Remington ADL in .222 Rem that I used to shoot at 100 yards in a little semi-official club league. At that time neck turning was the thing to do and there was more competition over inside or outside neck turning than the actual shooting. Even then the shooting was fun(?), but the reason, for me, was woodchuck hunting.
I just bought a .260 Savage myself, but it will be a whitetail hunting rifle that gets shot at targets in the summer and off-season (22" Sporter profile barrel & 3-9X magnification). But I will still want an accurate load because things don't get better in the field; and as much as you can get "at the bench" is a good start. I like reloading for itself and I hand-measure all powder charges and keep the logs for COAL so I can get good consistency in the reloads. Point being, a standard set of dies and careful practices will get you to 3/4 MOA with the right components; but that last few hundredths of an inch to 1/2 or 1/3 MOA may take twice as much effort. I believe that is called "The Law of Diminishing Returns."
Start with good cases, load carefully, change one thing at a time and shoot a lot to see what your rifle prefers.
I agree completely about the powder. Measuring to the nth grain does not seem to matter. I just drop powder from the measure especially will ball or even short grain.Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
I think the type of powder matters and since H380 is a classic for 22-250 that’s what I have used thus far but I have a lot of others I can try. The most important things seem to be seating depth, possibly primer types, and straight concentric cartridges, and quality bullets and proper case prep or Lapua cases.
One other thing I haven’t tried is to vary the torque on the action screws. I just got a torque driver. Waiting for things to warm up. Too cold for me and the powder!
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I agree with Marine. I just got some 6.5 CM dies from Lee yesterday. Since they arrived before my Redding body/shoulder die, I went ahead and loaded some rounds (these are for a friend's rifle, since I do not have a 6.5 CM). I used the Lee full length resizing die, and the Lee dead length bullet seater that came with the Deluxe Die set. The set also has a Lee factory crimping die and a Lee collet/mandrel neck sizing die, but I wanted to see what my runout would be with these faster basic dies. I loaded 10 once-fired rounds, and checked them with my NECO concentricity gauge. Most were about 0.001" total dial movement, and a few were almost 0.002" total dial movement. I wouldn't recommend spending money trying to get more concentric ammo.
I find that sizing the case and then rotating the case 180 degrees and sizing it again helps to true the case, this also works with neck dies.
Starting out with a straight case neck usually helps accuracy, of course trim as needed etc.
PS, You can't go wrong with RCBS products.
I have been loading for more calibers than i can remember over the last 53 years since started loading. I have shot 1000 yd. matches and finished 1 and 2 with my oldest son. I have shot in egg shoots from 200 to 250 yds. and did pretty well, I built my own guns for myself and my 2 Sons and loaded their ammo also. After trying 5 or 6 different presses dies and changing procedures over the years I have settled on a Bonanza CO-AX press, I use about 10 different brands of dies and my gauge for bullet con. is a bench in my shop I can roll them on the edge and watch the tip to see it is straight. There is a lot I have learned over the years, more than I can write here. If you use your head and think you do not need to spend a lot of money to get good quality ammo. I have shelfs full of equiptment I have tried over the years just gathering dust. The shooter makes the difference.
Savage11 that is one of the many small things I have learned over years that makes a big difference.
I don’t disagree that a lot of equipment isn’t necessary. Shooting is big business and business will try to convince you that you need their products. I read somewhere to watch what successful people do and do the same thing. I looked around for a book by an accomplished shooter and read what he did. The book was called Handloading for competition and I have learned a lot about case prep and components. I think some rifles are moa out of the box. My self imposed goal is to get my rifles to 1/2 moa. Not all shooters are capable of that and to be honest I am not sure I am so to take some error out of the equation I shoot with the rifle snugged up in Caldwell lead sled with 50 lbs of lead on solid ground under optimum conditions. I am absolutely certain that doing this I can shoot 1/2 moa. When I am satisfied with the rifle and the load then I will determine my ability with a bipod. Consistent handloads, the right barrel on a Savage should produce my goal with my 260 LRP.
I am replacing the stock barrel on my 22-250 1:14 with long freebore with a Shilen 1:8 for heavy bullets. The .308 is another matter. It is totally stock Savage. I will have to get a quality stock and go from there. If it does not get the accuracy I’m after I have heard the .30 BR is accurate with a quality barrel. 1 moa is good and 0.25 to 0.3 is extremely good so I am trying to achieve
.5 which should be reasonable. The only real barrier is money and convincing my wife how vitally important these goals are as my only competition is me.
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I love the Lee collet neck dies for no turn necks and still use the Lee seating die for my .223. Up until recently my only .223 guns were AR15's used for fun plinking so I had never bought a micrometer seating die. I recently put a .223 barrel on one of my bolt guns and was planning on buying a Forster or Redding micrometer seating die. After a couple of trips to the range I doubt I will bother replacing the Lee. Bullet concentricity was spot on with less than .001 runout for the majority. I have made up some dummy rounds then epoxied the bullets in place so I can change seating depth easily.
I do have a RCBS X full length sizing die for each caliber I load. Hard to beat that X die for FL sizing
Not really advice. At least not from me, but this is a VERY interesting article I stumbled on and in it some insights for developing ultra accurate loads in the .308.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html
Just a note Jim. I have found that using the little crimp die seems to help my groups. I set it with very light feel on the cam over and turn 1/16 repeat. My vel. sd are lower doing this. Test it on your best load and compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim_k
I have the bottom of the line RCBS setup and a completely stock Axis 7mm-08. Managed to get 1.18 inch average over 5 groups, 4 shots each. 4x scope. I was pretty pumped about that, one could do better sure but it is the best I have ever done.
I prefer Forster full length dies with the high mounted floating expanders that produce cases with very little neck runout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac3iDJxDgxk
That being said one of the biggest causes of case neck runout happens when the expander is locked down off center. And the "cheep" Lee full length dies have a expander clamped and centered with the clamping collet.
https://i.imgur.com/QC9xK5D.jpg
And the reason so many reloaders use a body die and the Lee collet die is because they produce less neck runout than a bushing die. "BUT" so does the Forster full length benchrest dies, the neck of the case is held and centered in the die when the expander enters the case neck. And the 6.5 Guys stated they get less neck runout with the Forster dies than the Redding bushing dies.
https://i.imgur.com/Y7Iyv8o.jpg
And the less costly Forster benchrest seater dies hold the bullet and case in perfect alignment.
https://i.imgur.com/MomXeUI.gif
Sorry to be so late posting an answer for you but Forster makes a Ultra Micrometer Seater die for the .22-250 Rem.- part #U00031.
Lone Wolf's opinion that micrometer dies have no value may be correct for a reloader who doesn't load different bullet types of the same calibers during the same reloading session or who doesn't tune loads for a specific velocity and carefully monitor trim length variations in the brass. If you set your seating depth and never change it, you don't need a micrometer die.
Personally, I find micrometer dies very valuable when precision loading for my most accurate rifles,I find it much easier and more accurate to turn the selector a set number of increments and get the desired seating depth when changing bullets in the midst of a loading session and tuning the seating depth to counter the minor differences in brass trim length.I load about 5,200 - 5,600 rounds a year and have micrometer dies for 4 calibers - three are Foster dies (one full turn = 0.025) in .308, .223 and .22-250.
I just don't have that delicate a touch using a screwdriver to set seating depth.
The other is a Redding die for 6.5mm Creedmoor (one full turn = 0.050).
The lone Redding die was purchased when Forster didn't have a 6.5mm micrometer available when I needed one.
The Redding die is accurate and I have no concerns about using it but I prefer the Forster dies because the more space between each increment when making adjustments allows more accuracy when tuning settings for different bullets.
I am a big fan of Redding products. While precision is certainly obtainable with Lee, RCBS, etc. standard dies, I hold my Redding Micrometer dies as extremely valuable! Using them only adds to high precision, and even more important to me, the enjoyment of reloading. While every aspect of reloading is a relaxing pastime for me, using my Redding Press & components certainly add to a higher level of enjoyment. And THIS is worth more to me than the best group I could ever post!
For your 308 recommend Hornady Custom Match die set,FL sizer uses Bushings,you determine how much tension you want,Seater has Micrometer thimble to adjust in .001 increments,around $80-90,you can use RCBS,REDDING, or Hornady bushings
I use a "universal" Lee decapping die, clean the case up, take the decapping/expanding cherry right out of my resizing die, and use a separate neck expander (K&M). I get very little run out with this approach (verified with a Hornady 0.0005" dial indicator in my concentricity gauge/tool).
Labor intensive and not for bulk, but for 20 round batches it works very well. I hand clean instead of tumble.
I chased the concentricity issue for a while using the Hornady gauge with the fix it screw on the side feature and discovered I was was jacking up the neck tension to make them concentric and they shot like crap anyway. That being said Lee dies produce some of the most concentric ammo out there, no reason to spend a bunch of money. I use quality barrels in all my rifles and with Lee dies will shoot quarter MOA out to 600 yds. One for instance I have a CZ527 in 204 that would only shoot half MOA with ammo loaded with some of the most expensive dies. I used a Lee collet die and produced a 7 shot quarter MOA group with the same load as my best group with any other die.