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Circa 1959 110 in 30-06;
Misfired last hunting season - got a second shot.
Over winter took apart bolt, left the spring and firing pin together but cleaned all and lightly lubed.
Took to range fired 4 bullets perfectly - thought I fixed it.
Misfired again today - got the buck anyway - ???
Whats going on ? I figure I’ll RR the spring and firing pin.
Sound like a good idea ?
Best place and best parts to replace with- OEM grade and or upgrade ?
Thx
Ammo maybe?
Have you tried dropping the firing pin on the rounds for a second time?
Measure pin protusion. Replacing firing pin might not be a bad plan.
What ammo were you shooting?
I have an Idea what brand already...
Yep,.. I'm already blaming the ammo.
Ammo - Remmy 30-06 200 grain.
I pulled the bolt out. Disassembled - and took top retaining washer and spring retainer off, leaving the bottom retainer in place. I dropped the firing pin back into the bolt - by hook and by crook with a micrometer, I measured the firing pin protrusion - the result is that I have .062" protrusion. I was reading a link and that is what the spec mentioned on the nose, .062". So, it seems the protrusion is correct.
How can I confirm the spring is good or bad ? I'm thinking to switch the Spring as I've read that the heavier duty one help this gun to not misfire. Any opinion on this ? And which is the best one; OEM, Wolfe - does it come in different tensions ?
Lastly, I read the below a few times and am not sure how to adjust the end retaining spring washer nut ?
Quote:
" The last adjustment to make is the firing pin spring retaining nut has to be adjusted to provide at least .02 clearance between the cocking pin and bolt body when the firing pin is all the way down. Rather than measure exactly, I just made sure that there was some 'wiggle' room when the pin was all the way down. After you get the clearance you want, line up the teeth on the D washer with the teeth on the cocking pin sleeve with the sleeve slot line up properly with the cocking pin. Line this up by unscrewing the nut so that you don't eliminate your pin/bolt body clearance "
I take it they are factory loads ?
Try fresh ammo in a different brand. Had the same issue with Rem 25-06. They had a long run of hard primers on '06 size cases. You can search the website to verify if you need to. Buy some Federal loads.
I'm also assuming that the primers look like they've been struck plenty hard. Take a look at a missed fired primer compared to one that did fire. I would think they look the same.
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Check the ammo man.
Have you dropped the firing pin on it more than once and what were the results?
The brand you mentioned is what I suspected may be the culprit from the start.
I have seen several posts on other forums lately complaining of the same thing with the end result being the ammo from big green.
If you hand load maybe take one of the duds apart and replace the primer and see what happens then.
It's been a problem for awhile now. Its a shame. I love me some corlokts. And they were sooo accurate in my rifle too.Quote:
Originally Posted by big honkin jeep
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Just a thought, my dad had a .30-06 Remington that he used for deer hunting. I don't see a location for you, but he was deer hunting in Northern Minnesota, brought the rifle into and out of the cabin. Had a very similar misfire. Consensus was that bringing it into the warm cabin after cold day hunting allowed moisture to condense in firing pin channel, taking rifle back out in the cold would allow the water to freeze and block firing pin.
Just a thought.
With the bolt assembled what’s the distance from cocking pin to the bolt body when in the fired position? You might not have enough turns on the firing pin spring nut that the cocking piece assembles with. If it’s too tight the cocking pin will hit the bolt body. Don’t want that.
Thx for the help. It is the CoreLokt ammo. The gun has been in the family for over 50 years - and it's not been shot that much as it's a seasonal deer gun my Dad used infrequently. It really could be the ammo. And, to be honest, I have shot (3) deer with it in (4) years with --- probably the same box of ammo.
After careful examination - the misfired bullet does not have the same marking as the (2) successfully fired cartridges. The (2) fired ones have a deeper dent and a perfect 'round lip' around the dent. The misfire round has a less deep dent and no lip around the dent. Am I making sense ? What are your thoughts about this ?
As for the temperature thing - I've thought about that, but more about dirt and too much Lube slowing the action - but I cleaned it last year real well and ... last year it was the first shot that misfired - THANK G*D this year it was the second shot, a close range, kill-shot that misfired - or, I would not have bagged this deer...
Rusty - I'm not exactly sure what you mean as I don't know the proper names for these parts.. I'll try to look up a diagram...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49...IMG_2653_1.jpg
Thoughts ?
The cocking pin is round and protrudes from the side of the bolt body. The pin goes through a nut that threads down on the firing pin. If that nut is(was) backed out at some point the firing pin spring is not under as much tension as it normally would be. I can't recall specs off the top of my head, but you do not want this cocking pin touching the bolt body in the fired position.
It could be old ammo causing the issue, the difference you are likely seeing in the fired vs unfired primer strikes is probably slight primer crater caused by the firing pin hole being a smidge oversized or the firing pin a smidge undersized. Not a big deal.
Edit: My original post meant to say replace the firing pin SPRING might not be a bad idea. Trying to type from a phone isn't always the best way to communicate.
Edit, Edit: See link for bolt parts
http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...Assembly-Parts
Aaahaa !
Now I get it. It does not touch. I reassembled it all - put it in the fired position and I can spin the cocking pin with my fingers.
So, ammo or spring. I'd like to do both.
What replacement spring do you all recommend ?
I use the factory springs with no issues(only had to replace one firing pin spring over the years) Although I have heard of guys switching over to the 32lb Wolff spring. Probably the only real downside to this would be increased cocking effort on bolt lift. Midway or Brownells or one of the site sponsors might have these.
There is a rumor that savage is no longer facilitating the selling of parts, however you might be able to source a spring directly from savage.
I want to order a new spring and firing pin - why not, cheap and easy. I looked online and see there are many versions - long and short action of both the spring and the pin.
Which do I need ?
My serial # is 14030.
I can’t tell by SN, but if it’s a 110 then it’s a long action. Probably a small diameter.
I bought the pin and spring from Midway. I opted for the OEM spec and not the heavier spring.
BTW - I misspoke about my ammo - its Remy CoreLokt 150 grain ( not 200 ). My .35 Marlin is 200 grain.
Once I get it in the mail, I'll reassemble all and try to go to the range.
I'll also try a new box of ammo.
Your rifle is older? You might actually have a large diameter firing pin. Seems someone here swapped for a small pin with no issue, but it might be wise to cannibalize the spring off the assembly.
This may sound really dumb, but what are the headspace measurements at given temps. Don't discard the dumbest details. That's the one that always bites the biggest chunk out of my wallet🐒
Seems that you have a bit of experience with 110 bolt assemblys. I'm looking for a much fatter bolt handle for me 110FP in 30-06 circa 2001 production, non accutrigger (round top at front, flat top at rear if action) any suggestions please email me at jdaheyawhe93@gmail.com, as well as this forum, in case someone else needs this answer. Also, I've never dissected my bolt. I'm not sure if I want to try.how hard is it?
I have a feeling you're going to be disappointed when those parts show up. IIRC the firing pin and spring (and most every other part of the bolt assembly) are different between the pre 1964 and post 1964 guns.
If I were you I'd take the rifle out and set up a mock hunting scenario and see what happens. What I mean is take the rifle out in the same temps as a day of hunting and let it sit for however long you normally sit before getting a shot. Maybe whatever you use for lubrication is getting cold enough to slow the firing pin. That may be a long shot but it's possible and I like to try everything before buying parts. I've done that before and still had the same problem then later found some small detail was the problem all along.
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In my mind, and I'm no expert at all, just mechanically inclined, and I've listened and read a bit online, I see the issue being: bad ammo, pin or spring, head space ( which I have no idea what that means or if its something I can remedy or not, or, more internal things like sear etc ).
Although a smart trouble shooting idea, I doubt its the lube/ oil on the bolt/ pin, etc. I just cleaned all and lightly re-lubed prior to hunting. This year and last, I shot the deer pretty soon after getting into the woods - temp was 27 degrees - gun was stored inside prior, at room temp. Last year, temp was 40 degrees.
As of now, I'm waiting on a few things:
- the parts to come in and to compare.
- I sent Savage an email asking for the production year and parts list based on my serial #
The guy I talked to at Midway seemed very knowledgable and took the extra time to assure that he had selected the right pin/spring. When I spoke to Savage, to try to buy parts from them, prior to my Midway call, they said they no longer supported parts for this gun ( at least the bolt parts I asked about ). I tried Numrich prior to Midway and the woman in customer service could not help me select from the (4) different pins/ springs available.
I'm hoping Midway either has the stock on them or a line on making it like OEM.
Lastly, I agree about not buying parts without knowing first. But, there are NO gunsmiths around where I live. None. Long Island, NY. The last guy died suddenly last year and now there is nobody. A lot of tinkerers, but no one with deep experience and a machine shop...
Yeah I don't think those temps are low enough to cause lube to get sticky but figured I'd suggest the idea. I know how it is not to have a local gunsmith also. There are only 2 locally and the only one I've dealt with charged an arm and a leg for just checking the function on a pistol I had. I've thought about starting a gunsmith business but the tools are a little expensive just to get started.
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The difference you're seeing between the fired rounds and unfired rounds are from being fired. When fired the brass expands some to reduce rearward movement but the case still comes rearward under a lot of pressure with quite some force against the bolt face. This is most likely the cause of the difference in appearance of a deeper firing pin strike and some appearance of flattening.
Buy a box of fresh ammo and take a trip to the range. I'm fairly certain you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Heck you're gonna need it sooner or later anyway.
Just got the spring and firing pin - the pin is not the right one. It looks very similar but the overall length of the pin is shorter than mine ( not adjustable ) and although the fire pin 'head' itself looks similar ( I did not mic it ) the diameter of the rest of the pin, near the bolt head retaining pin, is much narrower than mine - MUCH - so it would be sloppy through my wider bolt head retaining pin. This one has to go back.
One thing I did notice ( I'm getting way to familiar and knowledgeable than I want ! ) is that my firing pin is scratched a bit where it would ride through my bolt head retaining pin. That could cause some loss of 'spring'.
If I can locate the parts, I think a new firing pin/spring and a bolt head retaining pin would be a smart maintenance R/R.
My firing pin, where it goes through the Bolt Head retaining pin ( if I type that part one more time !?!?!? ) is .1410. I'll be looking for that diameter firing pin shaft and BHRP...
Brother, I think you are barking up the wrong tree. If when you assemble your bolt and prior to putting the coking piece pin in, you put your thumb over the tail end and shack it and it moves freely in both directions and bottoms out you are good to go. Check your firing pin protrusion and if it is good you have 2 options. Make the ammo longer or the chamber shorter.
Verify headspace.
RH - I can shake it back and forth and the pin protrudes to spec. I don't want to bark or p*ss up the wrong tree - so thanks for the input. I hate troubleshooting anything by blind part replacement - that always wastes $ ( sometimes you get lucky, but I don't subscribe to that !)
Are you able to provide, or send me to where I can find excellent, descriptive directions as to how to check headspace. I have read a bit and know there are 'go and no go gauges' and a barrel wrench needed. Or, it can be done with scotch tape and used fired brass "FL " sized . What is FL sized ?
I think its smart to check the headspace anyway, especially if I don't have to change my current set up to do so ( would hate for it to be the ammo all along ). If the headspace is off, I can then make the necessary adjustments. If HS is OK, then I'm back to my firing pin/ spring and, or ammo.
Thoughts ?
FL sized = full length sized (as opposed to just neck sized).
Not ideal, but.....you can use a piece of masking tape across the head of the cartridge. Add a piece and close bolt. Keep adding layers of tape until bolt doesn’t close. Report back with findings.
1 layer roughly equals GO
2 layers roughly equals FIELD
3 layers roughly NO GO
with anything there are lots of variances on products, masking tape isn’t a real precision product. But this should give you an idea of things are way out or close.
I think I did it right. I used a fired cartridge. I put one layer of 3M blue masking tape on firing pin side of casing and used razor blade to trim so the tape was perfectly covering the end of the casing. I put this cartridge in barrel and tried to close the bolt and it would not close - only when I pushed a little harder, would it close.
Use a full length resized case, or unfired case. Unless the fired case came from a known good headsapced firearm.
And that's why you use a RESIZED case. A fired case is expanded so naturally it's not going to fit back into the chamber without some force. That's why rifles have primary extraction to help break the case free from the chamber. Also, do you have a set of calipers? If so, what's the thickness of the tape you're using? The difference between a go and no-go gauge is 0.0035". Most clear "Scotch"-type tape measures right at 0.002" thickness. I just checked three different types of painters tape I have here and they range from 0.003" to 0.006" in thickness depending on brand. If you don't know the thickness of your tape you're just chasing your tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by ABL1111
Tape is .0050.
I used a live round ( hate doing that in the house ! )
Same results - will not close.
Try it with the round that failed to fire.
Do you understand what we are trying to determine with this test?
Where is Big ed. He's got pretty pictures and the energy to splain.
my munny sez its the old ammo
I thought I understood until you ask if I understood :)
This test I just did was with the misfired bullet - which would be considered new, no ?
I thought the .0050 shows the space, or lack of, between a new bullet and the face of the bolt. It seems that my space is less than .0050, otherwise the bolt would have closed.
A spent round did the same thing as the misfired round - with the .0050 tape, the bolt would not close without some exertion
Any input gents ? Does my headspace sound OK based on the fact that a new bullet with .0050 of masking tape would not let the action close ?
It sounds like your headspace is not an issue.
OK - That's what I was thinking. Thank you for your help so far. As soon as I can get to the range, I'll try some new ammo. I'll check the new firing pin and spring that I ordered - might not be a bad thing to replace the original anyway.
I have killed a slew of deer with my Marlin 336 in .35, but had a scope mounting issue so I started using my Dad's Savage 110 in 30-06, it has been my 'new' hunting rifle. I have killed, with precision, several nice deer with this gun (2) despite misfires... It feels good in my hand, carry's well, the recoil is nonexistent when I have a deer in my sites, and is quite deadly.
So far, I have adjusted nothing - just have done a lot of measuring.
One last question - is there a way to 'de-cock' the action without pressing the trigger and activating the firing pin ? I hate dry firing a gun but can't seem to figure out another option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABL1111
Raise the bolt up, depress trigger and hold, close bolt slowly.
I do not recommend doing this with ammo in the magazine or chamber as the firing pin will be in the protruded/fired position
Wouldn't it be easier/faster/cheaper to just go buy a new box of ammo and see what happens?
JW Thx.
Smokey - yes - you're right ! I have the ammo. But, getting to a range is tough for me with (2) young, active kids, a demanding wife - my weekends are sort of shot. When I need to go hunt or fish I make the time - trust me... Time in front of the computer and making quick and easy measurements was the fastest, easiest for me. I'm a little pissed at myself that I bought the firing pin and spring without going to the range first - but, it is an OLD gun and I figured the spring had to be a little tired.
Hopefully, I can get to the range, there's a town range 2 miles away but its 50 yards only and I want to shoot at 100 yards with another gun to site it in. I'll post my findings.