Caliber Conundrum

Well, I've hit the proverbial wall. I'm finally tired of my 338 LM, my 408 CheyTac, my 45-70 Siamese Mauser, and even my 260 Dingo (still my favorite caliber). I'm looking for a new caliber for a bolt gun. Have a few in mind, but I don't know much about the cartridges and much of what I read comes with a 50/50 love/hate response. Anyone have any experience with 20 BR, 204 Ruger, or any of the TCU cartridges out of a Savage bolt? I'm even considering a 458 SOCOM build seeing as I've had the opportunity to shoot one and boy, talk about scary accurate to 200...

I use a 20 Grendel and it does great with 55 gr bullets.

A 20 BR with a 7- or 8-twist will be a skosh faster and you won't need a PPC bolt head.

What are you wanting to do with it?

Drybean, my days of hunting are over, and I'm only keeping the 260 Dingo (local creation based on the 6.5-06) because it hurls the 95 grain V-Max at almost 4k, and I'm keeping the other 2 because they've won a lot of unofficial club long range matches over thev years. It'll mainly be for target. The good I've heard of the 204 Ruger is the velocity and accuracy if the right parts are used. Have access to a HUGE supply of Shilen SS match barrels so it'll definitely get a quality barrel no matter what I choose.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

I'm really interested in the TCU cartridges because I have a 55 gallon drum full of .223/5.56 brass. Only thing that worries me is I've heard velocities tend to be crap.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

A 20 tac. would be my choice

I looked at the 20 Tactical, but it offered nothing over the 20 BR. The 20 BR is the 20 cal king at the moment. It doesn't offer much over the 204 Ruger and I know our local is PACKED with 204.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

204 ruger if you want factory ammo. and 20x47L setup for 50-55gr pencil's for a fun flat laser beam! the 17 predator has always peaked my interest.

Tell me more about the 20x47. Assuming it's based off the 6.5x47 that I also know nothing about.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

yeah it's essentially a 6.5x47 lapua necked down to 20 caliber. remember reading their getting 50's at over 4k and 55's just under. obviously not something you'd want to use in a dog town (high volume of shooting) but for those 500+ yd shots it's the ticket. the 20 caliber record was taken with this cartridge at over 1000yds on a rock chuck I believe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

yeah it's essentially a 6.5x47 lapua necked down to 20 caliber. remember reading their getting 50's at over 4k and 55's just under. obviously not something you'd want to use in a dog town (high volume of shooting) but for those 500+ yd shots it's the ticket. the 20 caliber record was taken with this cartridge at over 1000yds on a rock chuck I believe.

---

That puts them up there with the 260 Dingo I mentioned. I have to admit, I am a velocity whore as long as accuracy remains. How's barrel/case life? What about availability of reamers and dies?

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

those I don't know. Just read about it on saubier.com seems quite a few out there. and i'm sure the die arangement is much like most. buy a redding bushing die and appropriate bushings to size down in steps. (thats what most do for 6x47 and 22x47's) then change out the seater plug in the bullet seating die for the correct bullet diameter and profile. a quick google check shows PTG with a reamer http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/20-ca...ua-reamer.html

That's an interesting read. That eliminates the TCU cartridges. How about 6.5 cartridges? The only 6.5 I have is the Dingo, but I only use the 95 V-Max in it.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

for the 6.5's the hot cartridges these days are the 6.5 saum 4s developed by george gardner of gap. their using slow powders with long barrels and amazingly getting great barrel life and good velocity. he also helped bring the new 6.5 PRC out in partnership with ruger. its a hair smaller and on the RCM case but both of these are more aimed to the long range crowd with heavy bullets. depends what your after?

on the other end of the spectrum the 22 tcm is becoming a hit for the low componet usage/high performance in the .17 and 20 calibers.

a 20 practical (essentially a necked down .223) gets most of the performance of the 204 ruger with less powder and cheap cases. IMR 8208xbr is doing great things in alot of cases. it's my go to powder for .308, and .223. hear its getting good #'s with 6.5 and others.

I know the Creedmoor, but I like a little oddity. 6.5x284 I've had, got rid of it due to a 250 round barrel change. The Grendel is an AR round. The 260 Rem I've pondered due to the fact it's a necked down 308 and it'd feed from the 10 round box mag in a 10 action.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trentcwwilson

I know the Creedmoor, but I like a little oddity. 6.5x284 I've had, got rid of it due to a 250 round barrel change. The Grendel is an AR round. The 260 Rem I've pondered due to the fact it's a necked down 308 and it'd feed from the 10 round box mag in a 10 action.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

---

i'm building a .260 myself. the creedmoor is supposed to do better from a short action especially with these long super high bc bullets hitting the market. i'm personally building mine on a long action with DBM. if your looking for cartridges in that power level the 6mm's are very popular. with the release of the 105gr nosler RDF its a very economical choice. ton's of varients to choose from. there's the 6xc, 6x47l, and 6 creedmoor on the big end and the 6 dasher, brx, and br on the lower end. the last 3 can be tricky with mags but there's a company with mag guts get them to feed.

Should I just bite the bullet and get a 260 Rem or 6.5CM or should I consider one of the other calibers for a build? I've got a Bat Machine SA laying around I'd like to use for something.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trentcwwilson

I know the Creedmoor, but I like a little oddity. 6.5x284 I've had, got rid of it due to a 250 round barrel change. The Grendel is an AR round. The 260 Rem I've pondered due to the fact it's a necked down 308 and it'd feed from the 10 round box mag in a 10 action.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

---

Both Howa and CZ now offer bolt-action rifles chambered for the Grendel even though the cartridge was developed for the AR. BTW, the .223 Remington was developed for the AR also by morphing the bolt-centric 222 Remington.

It is an outstanding low recoil round with excellent terminal effects for medium game but muzzle velocities for a 24 in barrel will range from about 3000 fps in 85 gr bullets down to about 2300 fps with 140 gr bullets when using a 24-in barrel and running standard pressures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASmith

Both Howa and CZ now offer bolt-action rifles chambered for the Grendel even though the cartridge was developed for the AR. BTW, the .223 Remington was developed for the AR also by morphing the bolt-centric 222 Remington.

It is an outstanding low recoil round with excellent terminal effects for medium game but muzzle velocities for a 24 in barrel will range from about 3000 fps in 85 gr bullets down to about 2300 fps with 140 gr bullets when using a 24-in barrel and running standard pressures.

---

I know how the 223 was formed, and I have a 222. Great rifle. I'm assuming those velocities are for the 6.5 Grendel? And if I go that route, it'll be built on a Savage action. How's and CZ? Dear God man. Remember where you are!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trentcwwilson

Should I just bite the bullet and get a 260 Rem or 6.5CM or should I consider one of the other calibers for a build? I've got a Bat Machine SA laying around I'd like to use for something.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

---

lets see .204 ruger.......458 socom........260 man I thought I was ADD! lol obviously I have no clue what your after. seems you have money burning a hole in your pocket. I have a great idea. how about I live vicariously through you? ahem you want a 6x45 with an improved case but on a 30' shoulder throated for 105 nosler rdf's.... yeah that's it...ala poor mans 6br. this is a cartridge I want to build one day. C4HD already lists the dies, then your a custom reamer away from a cool rig that should be supersonic beyond 1200yds, low recoil, cheap/free brass on the proven accurate 30' shoulder. there are a few guys on the hide that are running straight 6x45's throated for 105's that are pretty impressive for what they are. guess it makes for a decent coyote gun using the 87gr v-max from what I've seen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

lets see .204 ruger.......458 socom........260 man I thought I was ADD! lol obviously I have no clue what your after. seems you have money burning a hole in your pocket. I have a great idea. how about I live vicariously through you? ahem you want a 6x45 with an improved case but on a 30' shoulder throated for 105 nosler rdf's.... yeah that's it...ala poor mans 6br. this is a cartridge I want to build one day. C4HD already lists the dies, then your a custom reamer away from a cool rig that should be supersonic beyond 1200yds, low recoil, cheap/free brass on the proven accurate 30' shoulder. there are a few guys on the hide that are running straight 6x45's throated for 105's that are pretty impressive for what they are. guess it makes for a decent coyote gun using the 87gr v-max from what I've seen

---

The 260 Dingo is my coyote rifle. Sighted in at 100, it's dead nuts at 400. At 425, it'll remove lungs and vertibrae out the other side and leave a wound big enough to fit your fist and not get bloody. Does even better with the 100 grain options. I'm essentially looking for a flat shooting target option. 6mm is always a good choice, but I've heard they're barrel burners.

the 6.5 saum would likely be one of the better pick's for a short action. the 28 nosler is becoming popular throated for the 195gr bergers in the long action. those both are catered more for long range target shooting/hunting.

hopefully scope eye will swing by he's into those laser beams. he builds all of his with slow twist barrels setup for the light for caliber bullets at blistering speeds. he said the bigger guns like his 338 edge/lapua? with the barnes ttsx (the lightest one) has a visible vapor trail to even the naked eye since its so fast and is large enough to see. something to be seen he says.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

the 6.5 saum would likely be one of the better pick's for a short action. the 28 nosler is becoming popular throated for the 195gr bergers in the long action. those both are catered more for long range target shooting/hunting.

hopefully scope eye will swing by he's into those laser beams. he builds all of his with slow twist barrels setup for the light for caliber bullets at blistering speeds. he said the bigger guns like his 338 edge/lapua? with the barnes ttsx (the lightest one) has a visible vapor trail to even the naked eye since its so fast and is large enough to see. something to be seen he says.

---

I read up on a caliber called the Blue Streak that's essentially the same as you described. Bit hot for my liking. Pressures tend to be a bit high.

Is the 6.5 Grendel worth chambering in a bolt? I've had the joy of shooting one at our "local" range and was mightily impressed with its performance. Still feel bad that I shot his rifle better than him...

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

yes and no. I know this is a savage forum but I have to agree that new howa is 6.5g is where that cartridge is right at home. I would do 6.5x47L and download it before doing a 6.5g in a savage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

yes and no. I know this is a savage forum but I have to agree that new howa is 6.5g is where that cartridge is right at home. I would do 6.5x47L and download it before doing a 6.5g in a savage.

---

I'm not a fan of shouldered barrels. Too expensive to headspace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trentcwwilson

I'm not a fan of shouldered barrels. Too expensive to headspace.

---

Remember, one of the beauties of the barrel nut is that tightening it with the GO-Gauge in place completes the headspacing woth NO MACHINING!

Speaking of off beat or emerging cartridges, have you looked at the 6 Creedmoor?

Hornady is already producing ammunition for it and one can use the longest Bullets by going to a 7- or 8-Twist. These include the 115 gr Berger and DTAC pills. (EXCEPTION -- GS Custom offers a leadfree 106 gr thay they recommend a 6-twist.)

Might have to download 55 gr pills unless lead puffballs are a serious form of entertainment.

Barrel life should be a tad better than the 243 Winchester too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASmith

Remember, one of the beauties of the barrel nut is that tightening it with the GO-Gauge in place completes the headspacing woth NO MACHINING!

Speaking of off beat or emerging cartridges, have you looked at the 6 Creedmoor?

Hornady is already producing ammunition for it and one can use the longest Bullets by going to a 7- or 8-Twist. These include the 115 gr Berger and DTAC pills. (EXCEPTION -- GS Custom offers a leadfree 106 gr thay they recommend a 6-twist.)

Might have to download 55 gr pills unless lead puffballs are a serious form of entertainment.

Barrel life should be a tad better than the 243 Winchester too.

---

That's why I said I dislike shouldered barrels. I only use Savage style actions due to the ease of headspacing. And I've got a buddy that shoots 6CM for long range. He enjoys it. Accidentally got a case with the 308 stuff he sold me. Interesting case.

Ok, I take back what I said about shouldered barreled actions. I installed a Timney target trigger on a 700 today and I'm not looking for a 700 action. 1.5lb trigger actually broke at 13 oz. My kind of rifle. Now to figure out caliber....

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trentcwwilson

Ok, I take back what I said about shouldered barreled actions. I installed a Timney target trigger on a 700 today and I'm not looking for a 700 action. 1.5lb trigger actually broke at 13 oz. My kind of rifle. Now to figure out caliber....

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

---

there is always the "remage" barrels (savage style barrel nut for the remington action) only thing with the remy is your confined to the bolt face you have unless you have another bolt you can setup in it.

If I got with a 308 gun, I can use 6x47, 6.5x47, 6CM, 6.5CM.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Ok, I kinda got lead in the right direction by a local long range shooter. Finally caught him when his shop wasn't packed and asked him. I wanted something different that I haven't seen on the benchrest/long range (600 & 1000 yard) ranges and I settled on 6mm Norma BR. Great case life, great barrel life for a 6mm(2500+), and very efficient. 1.7-2 grains more of Varget than my .223 55gr V-Max loads. Here's what I've priced for 105gr handloads per his recommendations. This will at least get me started. Lapua brass, CCI SRM in the strips, 105gr Berger VLD, and Varget. I'll be buying everything in bulk locally so prices will be cheaper than listed here, but it gives me an idea. At least I'm not gonna be buying the Lapua ammo listed at the bottom. Now to decide to stick with a Savage or break down and build a 700. Found SS short actions for cheap(384) at Buds and that Timney Calvin Elite .5-2.5lb trigger is calling my name...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...40fb63376f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9a00c6b6b8.jpg

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

6br is a great cartridge especially setup for the 105's with a fast twist barrel. keep in mind there are tons of reamers out there for this cartridge. i'd recommend a no turn reamer setup for lapua brass with freebore for the 105's. as for cost per performance check out the nosler 105 RDF vs the berger vld.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

6br is a great cartridge especially setup for the 105's with a fast twist barrel. keep in mind there are tons of reamers out there for this cartridge. i'd recommend a no turn reamer setup for lapua brass with freebore for the 105's. as for cost per performance check out the nosler 105 RDF vs the berger vld.

---

I had priced the 105 Berger VLD. I don't know twist rates to save my life so any info you can give me would be appreciated. Guess I'll have to go join the 6mmBR forums as well. I'd like to be able to shoot the 105s extremely well, but still allow me to shoot other weights as well, preferably the V-Max as well because I love the bullet in .264 and .224. Also need a preferred barrel length. Plan on using a Shilen stainless match barrel if they have the suggested twist. That'll leave me to decide between the Savage or Remington/Tikka actions. I'm leaning Remington due to that amazing Timney trigger.

when I was spec'ing one out I was going to go with a 1:8 twist with a .114 freebore and .271-.272 neck. this would give you enough freebore to keep most of the 105 out of the powder column and yet still give you some throat to grow (so you can chase the lands as the barrel wears) you could start with the freebore as far as .135 if you want more velocity out of the gate but your barrel life (or amount of rounds you can chase the lands with before the bullet is to far outside the case) will diminish. now if you have means to set your barrel back at will then a .125-.135 freebore may not be a bad idea. the .114 freebore would be less jump for the vmax's.

as to barrel length that's all shooter preference. most go very long barrels in the 6br to maximize velocity from the short cartridge(28-32" is quite common). I personally was starting to lean towards a 6brx or dasher(both 6br wildcats with a few gr more capacity) with a shorter barrel (22-24") to be more versatile(not it to the bench rest deal) varget is the go-to powder for that cartridge but read a few good things about 8208xbr (my go-to powder now)

again I can't remember the company off hand but there's a company who sells mag guts for aics mags that will feed the stubby case well. otherwise you may want to consider a single shot approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

when I was spec'ing one out I was going to go with a 1:8 twist with a .114 freebore and .271-.272 neck. this would give you enough freebore to keep most of the 105 out of the powder column and yet still give you some throat to grow (so you can chase the lands as the barrel wears) you could start with the freebore as far as .135 if you want more velocity out of the gate but your barrel life (or amount of rounds you can chase the lands with before the bullet is to far outside the case) will diminish. now if you have means to set your barrel back at will then a .125-.135 freebore may not be a bad idea. the .114 freebore would be less jump for the vmax's.

as to barrel length that's all shooter preference. most go very long barrels in the 6br to maximize velocity from the short cartridge(28-32" is quite common). I personally was starting to lean towards a 6brx or dasher(both 6br wildcats with a few gr more capacity) with a shorter barrel (22-24") to be more versatile(not it to the bench rest deal) varget is the go-to powder for that cartridge but read a few good things about 8208xbr (my go-to powder now)

again I can't remember the company off hand but there's a company who sells mag guts for aics mags that will feed the stubby case well. otherwise you may want to consider a single shot approach.

---

I'm leaning towards the single shot more and more to gain as much accuracy as possible. And Varget is my go to powder for every caliber I have except 308. Mainly because I have almost 200 pounds of it.

Check this guys out:
http://primalrights.com/equipment/6br-aics-conversion

That may be worth my time then. I was considering dropping this build into an MDT chassis and they can use AICS mags.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

there is always the "remage" barrels (savage style barrel nut for the remington action) only thing with the remy is your confined to the bolt face you have unless you have another bolt you can setup in it.

---

308 bolt face. Works for 6mmBR, 6mm CM, 6.5CM, 6x47L, 6.5x47L....I'll do the 700 correctly without the nut. Don't bastardize the 700. That's Savage's baby, leave it to them. If I can find a bare Tikka action, I'll go that route. One of the slickest factory actions on the market. My whole reason for going the 700 route is due to that Timney trigger. Half a pound trigger pull is perfect for what I'm gonna use it for.

I agree with the tikka action. my cousin bought a .308 CTR and It's definitely the slickest action I've ever shoot with. I like the fact that you can modify the bolt stop and run it as a long or short action with just a quick change of the stop and magazine. CBI I believe is starting to do switch barrel conversions for tikka's now as well. if I ever do a high dollar build it will either be off a tikka action or a bighorn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASmith

Remember, one of the beauties of the barrel nut is that tightening it with the GO-Gauge in place completes the headspacing woth NO MACHINING!

Speaking of off beat or emerging cartridges, have you looked at the 6 Creedmoor?

Hornady is already producing ammunition for it and one can use the longest Bullets by going to a 7- or 8-Twist. These include the 115 gr Berger and DTAC pills. (EXCEPTION -- GS Custom offers a leadfree 106 gr thay they recommend a 6-twist.)

Might have to download 55 gr pills unless lead puffballs are a serious form of entertainment.

Barrel life should be a tad better than the 243 Winchester too.

---

I've got a friend that shoots it. I clean his brass, find it interesting, but I like the 6mmBR for efficiency.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk