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So, these are pics of how I bed my rifle. There are tons of vids and tutorials, and I researched a ton. My first one was a disaster and I followed instructions...
Prep of the stock:
I learned, and since pictures are worth a thousand words, here you go.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...57359c161a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...16e8cf2047.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...bd25be477c.jpg
The prepped action:
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The epoxy PUTTY mix. Devcon 11001 steel putty mix from Amazon. I found the putty style is so much better. I used the runny stuff, and it takes so much more prep work and cleanup...
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The squeeze out, very minimal and easy to clean:
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I don't clamp, because it can bend the action or other parts, so I use tape that has some compressive force. Electrical tape works, i just had this red placric tape handy. That is all, tape.
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A couple of things.
I use masking tape to float the tang and the barrel. I use three or four layers, depending on the float. The other masking tape on the action and stock is maybe two layers thick so it doesn't affect float.
I use masking tape to cover the action and stock where I don't want epoxy. I use mink oil as a release agent every where except on the stock where I want it to stick! I use it cause it is what I had. I like that it is a little bit thicker to apply and see.
I use masking tape on the screws to center them in the hole so only the recoil lug bears laterally.
I bought long screws from Ace and cut off the head.
Dumb question:
Wouldn't it be better to use Saran Wrap instead of masking tape, so that it follows the countours of the action better?
It seems like all those spot where you've got the tape crumpled up is going to create voids in your bedding...
There is no bedding wherever I have masking tape. I only bed the back of the recoil lug and under the action near the front action screw and then only the small part showing near the rear action screw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer
Aha, that makes sense!
I'm about to bed an old Marlin .22 (my first bedding job), so I'm reading up on the process...
Cool! Almost what I do also. I add a dam of modeling clay in the barrel channel just ahead of the bbl nut and bed the action to the bbl nut. I use kiwi neutral boot polish as release agent and JB weld or devcon. have used both in the past. I also float via layers of masking tape. I however tape down the edge of stock to keep putty off things, less to clean up when it squeezes out too. Oh, and old bicycle inner tube works great for getting initial fit to stock when bedding. stretch around and tie it.
Great post!
Pics of finished product?
Pics coming...Quote:
Originally Posted by olddav
Very similar to how I do mine.
So, here is a finished bedding job. On this one, you can see the bearing surface on the rear action screw is pretty minimal.
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Here it is in the action. I floated the rear tang a little more than usual on this one because of a couple factors... but I like it.
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would you mind telling what the factors are that made you want to float the tang "more than usual"? (and how much is usual?)Quote:
Originally Posted by hereinaz
Question a while ago, but I floated this one more because of the way it sat in the barrel channel mostly. Also wanted more clearance for other barrels I may put in. Intended this action for a switch barrel set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by aephilli822
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What is your rational for so little bearing surface around the rear screw? And, not using pillars?
There just isnt much room back there for a rear bed, and most of the work is done up front.
Eventually I will get around to pillars, but with the insert on the front screw and the steel trigger guard on the front, compression of the laminate is not nearly as big an issue on a hunting gun that doesnt see a lot of shooting.
Eventually, I will put in pillars, but I find the improvement comes with bedding the recoil lug and the action. So, being short on time that day, I just did the action.
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I understand the "not much room". I always use pillars and do not cut the notch for the sear until after bedding. I try to get bedding material all the way around the rear pillar and then cut and grind to fit the sear. I do it in 2 steps, install the pillars and then bed. I am always concerned about putting stress/torque on the action.
Bill
Each to his own, but please be aware there are other ways to pillar and bed a rifle.The way I learned it, pillar first and then bed. That takes away any stress between the barreled action and the stock.
Fotheringill, I agree. I read and watched lots of others. There is some pretty bad stuff out there. I know cause I followed it twice and made huge messes. I also know there are better ways, but this is my way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringill
And, great feedback so others get a bigger picture of the process and learn. I hope this helps people (and me) get a better understanding, cause my bed job is only one way...
There have been several questions about why I did something, and of course the true comment that bedding and pillars are best.
One purpose of my post was to help people get started on their first one without getting overwhelmed. And bedding without pillars can make a huge improvement. Bedding can be a simple first step for lots of people, and it seems many freeze up at the thought of pillars.
In the interest of expanding the discussion, here are my thoughts and reasoning, based on what I understand and have experienced.
It is true that pillars AND bedding are best to eliminate as much stress on the action as possible. And, I do both.
In the grand scheme of things, pillars add another level of performance of a laminate stock, but my opinion the bedding is what gives the most imorovement to laminate and factory plastic stocks. In a factory plastic stock with metal inserts, bedding alone like this is the best bang for the buck.
And in fact, in most situations, I woukd say that bedding the recoil lug alone and centering the action screws in the holes are what likely makes the most improvement, followed by bedding the action to remove twisting and bending stresses.
Of course, I am generalizing laminate stocks and their properties. One particular gun may have really bad inletting that bows the action like a banana, so bedding is the best. Another may have a really weak point that compresses the wood which turn the acrion into a banana shape or an offcenter action screw hole so pillars make the most difference. Or, another may have really poor pocket for the recoil lug. So, pillars to bedding is the way to go to maximize.
As for my method, that is why I said it was my way, and I appreciate feedback. Certainly it is not the best way, cause I have already changed it a little.
This is my understanding about bedding. Bedding the action ensures that the compressive force on the action pressing down into the stock is equalized, and that it is cradled perfectly to avoid twisting or bending it. (Another very valuable part of bedding is keeping the recoil lug in the same position for repeatability.)
My understanding is that pillars mainly act to keep the torque the same, and to withstand the compressing force on the material between the action and the head of the screw. If the stock compresses when fired, then it can cause stresses on the action that were absent at rest.
In my opinion, a laminate stock like this doesn't benefit as much as other stocks from pillars, because the compression isn't as much of an issue as say in a wood stock. The laminate is much more durable in compression because of construction. Having chisled on the laminate, unless there is a crack, that stuff is pretty stiff and durable with all that resin and layered wood fiber.
Ultimately, it will fail, but not any time soon in this rifle. Again, this is a light use hunting gun in a low recoil .243 or .223 depending on my mood. I pillar my heavy recoil and high use guns when I bed them.
I think this bedding is adequate, because bedded like this, the action screws don't touch anything but the action on top and the trigger guard and the front insert on the bottom. The action screws are centered in the hole in the stock. I don't see how pillars would help that aspect.
I bet there are a lot of others who have bedded their laminate stock and switched to a steel guard and have gotten most of the improvement that they really need without pillars.
And, I doubt that adding pillars later is going to create any serious issues. It could certainly be easier to do pillars first, but I think the practical result can be the same. Epoxy is amazing stuff, and as long as proper mix and surface prep is done, adding a pillar later shouldn't have much practical effect downrange.
Also, I think maximizing the size of the rear bedding and adding a pillar is best. However, I don't think that it is nearly as important as the front action screw and recoil lug in a laminate or factory plastic stock.
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hereinaz-Thank you for the rationale. I looked through the pictures again and have one suggestion for the crowd here which concerns the rear tang- If it is sitting high, it means that the barreled action is not sitting properly. Might I suggest Dremeling out a bit of stock material in the rear tang area and then scoring the area with an "X" pattern to insure that the action sits right and will fit better into the stock with the X pattern further holding it in place.Crayola modeling clay works as well as the more expensive modeling clays.One more little tip for the crowd- When you get to the moment of truth to pop out the barreled action from the stock and it just won't pop, throw it into your freezer (or a neighbor's freezer if more space is needed), leave it there overnight, remove it and immediately pop it. The metal should have contracted just enough to separate from the stock.
Good stuff here, thank you guys. I HATE INSTALLING PILLARS
If you think action screw torque is important, then pillars are necessary. Plastic and wood and laminate will compress. If you are using a stock that has factory pillars......make sure they are actually touching the action.
I am always concerned about not getting the action in the stock level. That is the main reason I do the bedding in 2 steps, pillars first. There is less goo, so I feel I can keep the action level. I also use witness marks on the stock and tape. Then I can use the action screws to pull the action into the epoxy. I do not remove material from the bearing area of the stock until after the pillars are in. I use 1/2 pillars and drill a 5/8 hole with a forstner bit to get a level bottom in the front and the rear goes all the way, pillar rests against the trigger guard, so you must use a metal trigger guard.
I tried Devcon that comes in the 1 oz tubes, with the 60 min working time..... DON'T.... it is way to runny. Would be ok for the 1st step, installing pillars. Did I say .... I HATE INSTALLING PILLARS
Bill
Runny epoxy is the worst! I went with the devcon putty epoxy, SO MUCH EASIER!
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There are many products out there. The best for consistency* and working time that I have used is MarineTex. That being said, there are dozens of products out there and if you will be browsing at HD or ACE or Amazon, you need to decide which is best for you paying attention to the strength of the product. We are dealing with recoil here and you don't want the dried product to shatter. Another caveat, you need to know exactly what the stock is made of. The rubbery synthetic stock is of a material different than the laminated stocks or those made of wood.* As long as you have covered with tape or whatever, excess can be scraped off with a Popsicle stick and wiped clean. All otherwise exposed surfaces should be covered with a few coats of Kiwi neutral shoe polish or Johnson & Johnson paste wax just to be careful. If you make a mistake and there is seepage into recesses, remember that Mr. Dremel is you best friend but do it very carefully.