I really can't believe it.
https://youtu.be/DOMl4h9Wxk0
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I really can't believe it.
https://youtu.be/DOMl4h9Wxk0
Interesting. The left side charging handle seems to be the most distinguishing thing about it, but with ARs it is hard to stand out.
I'm not surprised. Was only a matter of time. Little too late in my book. I have never purchased an AR. I have been building them since 2005. And to me, the ones I build now are hands down better than any on the market. And now with these 80% receivers, there is even less reason to by one. I'm sure it will be nice, but I bet it ends up being rediculously expensive and do what pretty much every AR does. Shoot effectively.
The AR market bubble bursts, so all the AR makers tap into the Savage market by making prefit barrels. So then Savage counters by making AR's.............. how ironic. Everybody is following the herd....
No chit! Ironic indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
I am with you. I just can't believe there is that much of a market left for another AR. I too enjoy building an AR more than buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Better. Then les bear. CLE. White oak. JP enterprisesQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
I like the side charging handle on my FN FAL and It looks good on the AR but I don't see them being in the $500 to $600 range they would need to be in to sell.
Absolutely! Because each one is built with EXACTLY the parts I wanted. You never have to settle for anything when your building your own. Everyone I know who has ever been an AR builder feels the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by homefrontsniper
This is something Fred and I have discussed more times than I'd care to count for several years now. We both knew it would come eventually, but why...WHY jump into a market at this point that's already overly saturated? Sprinfield Armory has done the same thing with their new AR - the Saint. WHY?!?!?!?!
It's the same with the 1911 market. Everybody and their brother is making them and you can buy one brand new for as little as $450. Yet Ruger and Ithaca and Remington have all come out with their own 1911's in the last few years - and I'm sure a few other manufacturers will follow suit in the very near future as well.
Then there's the Remington 700 clone market - another avenue that Ithaca decided to go down recently because they can't come up with anything new or original of their own.
Lest we not forget the Savage 10/110 clone's - the Mossberg Patriot/MVP rifles, the Ruger American, the Remington 783 and the discontinued Marlin M7 rifles that all copied the 10/110 design simplicity.
Welcome to the 21st Century of American firearm manufacturing - aka the "Me Too" mob. And this is why I haven't purchased a NEW gun in several years, because there's very little NEW that's actually NEW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFurious
The Terminator: Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.
Pawn Shop Clerk: [annoyed] Hey, just what you see, pal!
Had all 4 . les bear was amazing accurate with 77 smk and reloder 15 . And 55 v-maxQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
I never said these upper echelon AR's weren't accurate. I said the AR's I build are better because I can tailor each one to the individual owner. MrFurious said the same market flooding goes with 1911's as well. Yup! Same reason I build those well! I purchased a Springfield Mil-Spec & then an SW1911 when I started in USPSA for fun. That was well over a decade ago! Take any $2000+ AR15 or 1911, and start looking at parts.
Guess it was coming . I really have no interest in a ar no matter who makes it . For others they work but not for me . Really think it's bad timing to enter the market but I am sure the bean counters at savage know best !
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Stopped by the local high volume gun shop the other day and this subject came up. I asked him how AR's were selling, he said they weren't - except for one. I asked which one, he said the Springfield Saint - and only because it's new (he's sold 8 so far). He pretty much shares the rest of our views on the AR market in that it's overly saturated, played out, and any manufacturer would be a fool to want to get into it as a new player at this point.
The Savage appears to have a left side charging handle which would separate it some from the pack. I've never used one so I can't say if that's a good thing or not, and as a lefty I find the somewhat ambidextrous standard charging handle to be just fine where it is.
I would have much rather seen Savage put their time and effort into developing an all new bolt-action rimfire platform with better magazines or fixing the known issues/shortcomings in the existing centerfire lines.
Your right about the rim fire mags when I try to get people on savage rifles that's all I hear
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http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Sava...eid=77242c6c80
5R rifling is a nice touch. Not keen on Blackhawk furnature but considering Savage owns them it was a given. Other than that nothings special.
This!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFurious
http://www.savagearms.com/news/Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Ask and ye shall receive
Liking Savage's new website. The old one was a little to dark and dreary for my taste. Now if they would just create an RSS feed for their news page.
Maybe it's coming later ?
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Looks like there will be two MSR15 variants offered in .223/5.56 (Recon & Patrol), and two MSR10 variants offered in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor (Hunter & Long Range). All of the following is from Joe Bob Outfitters webstore.
https://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netd...age-joebob.jpg
Details on the MSR 15 Patrol Rifle
The new Savage MSR 15 Patrol is a step up from the many rack-grade M4 clones popular today. With an upgraded barrel featuring a 223 Wylde target chamber, 5R rifling and a Melonite QPQ finish, the rifle delivers accuracy well beyond mil-spec. A BLACKHAWK!® handguard, pistol grip and adjustable buttstock further separate the Patrol from all other MSRs.
https://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netd...msr-patrol.jpg
FEATURES:
• Mil-spec upper and lower receiver
• 16 1/8-inch barrel with 5R rifling and Melonite QPQ finish
• 223 Wylde target chamber for use with 223 Rem. or 5.56x45mm
• Mil-spec trigger
• Mid-length gas system
• BLACKHAWK! KNOXX® AR Pistol Grip and AXIOM™ Carbine Stock
• Custom A-frame gas block front sight
• BLACKHAWK! flip-up rear sight
Specs:
PART NUMBER: 22900
DESRIPTION MSR: 15 Patrol
MANUFACTURER: Savage
ACTION TYPE: Direct-impingement semi-auto
CALIBER: 223 Rem./5.56x45mm
CAPACITY: 30
FINISH: Matte black hardcoat anodized receiver and Melonite QPQ barrel
BARREL LENGTH: 16.125”
RIFLING: 1:8” 5R Right-hand
SIGHTS: Custom gas block front with rear BLACKAHWK! flip-up
LENGTH: 32.5” – 35.75”
WEIGHT: 6.5 pounds
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...psvocj62cn.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2izksgze.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...psqparmbxo.jpg
Well my LGS just got a new Savage MSR Patrol in and I must say, its a sad disappointment. The front sight / gas block is some kind of alloy (most likely aluminum) which with heavy use will surely get burned through and leak, what's suppose to a forward assist is just a plastic plug ( yes I know its not needed but a plastic plug, really), and lastly the fit between the upper and lower is horrible. It looks like two different mismatched brands with the lines not aligning up. Even the gun shop said they've seen better quality on less expensive guns.
So sad, I was expecting more from Savage.
Oh WOW! That is just awful! Bad form Savage. Bad form! Considering I build these for under $1K, they have no excuse! http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psuwvflsrn.jpg
The MSR looks rediculous, to be so cheaply built like that! You can assemble the same thing for about $400 now! Again, my builds are in the $1k range, and will hang with AR's costing 2-3 times that!
Savage could probably sell more Strikers, if the made them again, than that AR. That is one sad looking AR.
It did look mighty rough.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowgetter1
I will make it a point to see how the ones on display at the SHOT show are finished.
BTW, check out the video I posted up on the homepage with JJ Reich and you'll see the Recon model has a billet lower receiver unlike the Patrol model shown above.
For those wondering if Savage was actually making these in house, the answer is in. I would still suspect that 100% of the parts are outsourced, but at least assembly and proofing are taking place in Westfield.
https://youtu.be/HQBHiA78fWA
Also posted this up today on the other site. Was feeling kinda lazy so didn't copy it here as well so you'll have to check it out there.
http://www.gunsafield.com/new-savage...308-and-6-5mm/
Wow. I foretold this.
The Savage Magnum 112 is within 90% of the quality of a $4k custom rig as far as the action and stock the barrel still has the jury out but if it sucks I can replace it for $400 and have a LR hammer for under $1500 WORST CASE.
That AR you could spend $1500 on and it still be a pile of junk. SAD.
Get toooooo far from your CORE BUSINESS.....and ya get stung.
Still love ya Savage but how you thought of getting into a market like the AR and having a place....IDK. Every part of the AR market is SATURATED TO THE MAX. I have 2 under $500 ARs that will go under 1MOA with handloads....how do ya compete with that? Oh and they look better. If you want a LR AR-10 there are 45245236 different models out there.
Bad business decision but Savage is my favorite and even if they go smooth off the rails I will keep buying older 10/110s in pawnshops and building hummers.
Well, color me underwhelmed by these Savages.
my only comment to the ar market.
ZZZzzzZZZ *snores *farts *continues to snore
I handled both the MSR10 Hunter and MSR10 Long Range today.
Initial impression - they feel just like every other AR/MSR on the market.
While I can see Savage making some sales in the small-bore market, I really think they could exploit the large-bore market. At $1482 MSRP for the Hunter, the equivalent Armalite is going to run $1600+ (with no 6.5 Creedmore, only .308) while the equivalent DPMS is $1239. The DPMS also has a 24-in barrel vice the Savage's 18-in. The Savage is 3.25-lbs lighter than the DPMS LR-65 & Armalite AR-10(T).
Now - what I did not ask questions on, from any company, was magazine requirements.
The MSR-10 uses AICS mags.
That will suck cost wise?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_W
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Every picture I've seen has shown the MSR-10 with Magpul 308 PMags. Those are SR-25/DPMS-compatible, not AICS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_W
I'm only repeating the words of the Savage representatives at the SHOT Show.Quote:
Originally Posted by BC98
https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag-10-762-acQuote:
Originally Posted by BC98
Yeah, I'm aware Magpul makes AICS mags. If you look at any picture of the left side of an MSR-10 and you can see the mag catch clicks into the side of the mag. AI mags do not have a notch on the side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood