270 or 30-06?

I know this is a VERY old question, but let me muddy the waters more. I already have the 30-06, and it shoots pretty decent, has taken a few deer for me too. I got the '06 long time back hoping to get an elk with it. Managed to get in only one elk hunt. Now am retired and I doubt there will be any more elk hunts in my future. I hunt mostly alone and really cannot see myself packing one of those beasts out by myself.

So with all that, I will come back to my post. I am considering swapping the barrel out to a 270. What appeals to me the most is using the Barnes 110gr TTSX bullets in the 270 for deer, and maybe an antelope hunt, if I can pull one off. It would make a laser beam from a 270. I already have reloading stuff for the '06 so let me state I know up front the 270 would be more costly, for sure.

Recoil is getting to be a slight factor, mainly since I just don't want to get hammered. I have a good pad, and even soft cheek pad on the '06 and they do their jobs well. Recoil isn't bad at all. I just want it to be less.

I also have a 243, but using it with 100gr doesn't even put it in the same league as the 270 with the 110gr Barnes.

The ONLY big question for me, is I do have 130gr TTSX's for the '06, so would I see a big drop in recoil between the 270/110 load and the '06/130 load? We're talking about 3500-3600FPS (270) vs 3200FPS ('06).

Waste of time/money?

Only a waste of you didn't experience something.

Fill in the blanks and see for yourself:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

According to the calculator, it's only about 1.5 ft/lb difference, with the faster 270 load being the lesser of the 2. I was on on first velocities. The 270 would be more like 3300 (guessing) and the '06 at 3100. Impulse and recoil velocity were less too. Now if I drop down to the 95gr TSX velocities would jump a bit. More like 3600, plus it would lose 2 ft/lb of recoil energy. Question of accuracy would always be there with that bullet though. It would be almost like a 243 on steroids, BIG steroids.

Living in CA since we HAVE to hunt with non lead bullets, I have to explore all my options.

Why not use the 110 TTSX in the 06?
I made up some 110 gr TTSX in my 308 And buddy they are NASTY! They are so fast it's crazy. Now I don't shoot much at game over a few hundred yards and they fill the Bill. I have shot a few big hog with them and have got perfect performance. The recoil is low and they shoot pretty well I'm getting groups that any hunting round would be happy with.
And another thing you say you have a 243 also. And let me assure you that with the New monolithic bullets like the TTSX, E-tip or the GMX you have All the rifle you need for Deer size game from 1-400 yards if you can shoot well. I have got end to end penetration on full grown bucks (200) lbs. So don't think the little 6mm bullets are cream puffs.
Too many computer hunters that act like parrots just repeat what some other has said from reading 40 year old story's.. Use max loads with a 243 monolithic bullet and go fill up your freezer. The 243 with the right load is as good as any on deer as long as you keep the range realistic and place it in the kill zone. And the 30-06 can do anything the 270 can. And they make 110 mono bullets for 30 cal also.

I've changed the other way, but never away from the '06. Spend the money on a good stock, and get it bedded, or buy a better trigger, or a NightForce scope. Christmas is right around the corner! You can shoot long range, and you can load light, or use TrailBoss, and almost totally eliminate recoil. Milsurp brass is as good as any, with proper reloading.

Swamphonkey
Online at least, Barnes doesn't list a load for the 110/'06 combo. I have one of their reload manuals though and can look that up. Interesting idea though! They are listed at 3400-3500 from the 308. I'm sure the '06 will add another 100-150 to that. That's crazy.

I know when they first developed the 130gr, they loaded them in the 300WM and took it to Africa. They shot only plains game, but the big ones! They wre getting speeds in excess of 3600fps, and said they recovers only one bullet in something like 40 animals shot. IIRC that one they recovered had entered a front shoulder, and was lodged in a rear hip bone of something like a Gemsbok sized animal.

LOL looking at the load data for the 300WM and the 110. Over 3900fps with RL17. That's like a 243 with their 58gr Varminator.

Jimk
Yea there are a million reasons not to switch, that's certain. Currently not too interested in ultra long range stuff. All this surely isn't based on any NEED, because the '06 will do anything I need it to do. I have been using the Barnes 168gr TTSX in it and it is accurate and lethal for sure. My calcs show it would be a solid performer on even elk to 450yds plus. I guess I need to load at least some of the 130's and give em a try. Maybe get some 110's for kicks.

I did load some 55gr in my 243 once. Me and some friends were shooting targets and junk that people had left on one hillside. Targets ranged at to about 300yds. It was almost scary how fast those were. It was the only load, from my 243, that I have seen the impact, before recoil pulled me off target. And those were 250-300yds away. I know even those 55gr lead core bullets would have made a mess of what they hit. A coyote would never know what hit him. I saw then what 220 Swift shooters came to love. Oh and recoil was about like a 223.

I switched mainly to short action calibers years ago because I like to shoot alot and recoil's no fun. My go to whitetail load is the 130 TSX out of my 660 308,only because it won't shoot the 110's as accurately. If I'm not using that I'll also go to a 243,95 grain Berger VLD's. I have run the 55 gr ballistic tips up to 4,300 fps out of the 243 AI,talk about a laser beam! Good luck with whatever you choose,to each his own.

243LPR
What caliber were you shooting in the long action? Here in Kommifornia I have only the unleaded choice, and Barnes has the best selection, for most calibers. Yea the first time I shot a real light bullet from my 243 I thought I only imagined seeing it hit, then it kept happening. Wow what a revelation that was.

I have read that going to the 243 AI makes cases last a lot longer, have you found that to be true? What fps gain did you get with the AI?

HandiRifle I am no master reloader but I know that the Varget powder works well in my 06 with the 110s. I'm not any faster than with my 308 But it's right there at 3,500 fps. Now the accuracy is not as good it's hanging around 1-1/2" at 150 I guess that's moa and suitable for deer hunting. But I didn't play with it much I probably could have gotten better but I don't hunt with my 30-06 a old pre 64 win.. It was left to me by my grandfather long ago and I only shoot it once in a while. I'm sure your rifle will shoot much more accurate. I would try Varget with a mild load to see what you get and anything over 3300 fps will smoke any deer or hog. I'm getting a solid 3450 out of my 308 and it's a hog slaying machine.

Man I bet it does. We are heading to Oregon this week. Gonna be there for 3 weeks, in the RV. Touring and salmon fishing. I hope to make it to the Cabelas in Eugene and do some shopping. Save the hazmat fee, shipping fee and tax if I can.

I'm thinking of some 80gr TTSX and possibly Superformance powder. Barnes listed that as their most accurate for the 243 loads. Either that or RL17.

Swamphonkey
What powder you using in the 308?

I've been using H335. In my 308 a full load. I could probably keep playing with different powders and find faster but I'm satisfied with what I'm getting out of the H335. I am getting real good results with my 243 with IMR 4350 And the TTSX 80 gr and the Hornady GMX shoot well also.

I have both but I think I like my 270 better, A 90 grain Sierra with 63gr of RL17 will produce a round capable of 4000+ FPS, same for the Speer 90gr TNT I buy them by the 650pcs value pack. Barnes makes a 85gr HP and a 95gr TTSX both as nasty with the same 63gr load.

Dean

Swamphonkey
Thanks

Scope eye
WOW that is some serious speed. What kind of accuracy do you get?

[QUOTE=Scope eye
WOW that is some serious speed. What kind of accuracy do you get?[/QUOTE]

I hit everything I aim for, sorry I don't do paper.

Dean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handirifle

243LPR
What caliber were you shooting in the long action? Here in Kommifornia I have only the unleaded choice, and Barnes has the best selection, for most calibers. Yea the first time I shot a real light bullet from my 243 I thought I only imagines seeing it hit, then it kept happening. Wow what a revelation that was.

I have read that going to the 243 AI makes cases last a lot longer, have you found that to be true? What fps gain did you get with the AI?

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I had always shot an '06 until I got my first 243. AI cases do last longer,less stretching because there's less taper. I gained maybe 100fps with the AI.I'm pushing 75 Vmaxes over 3800 fps. I use Lapua brass and like to make it last as long as possible.

Well I picked up a couple pounds of Superformance today, and Sat will hopefully get some Barnes 80gr TTSX's. We will see from there.

300 Whelen:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boanerges

300 Whelen:p

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Hmmmm this sounds suspiciously like a 30-06 :)

You can duplicate the 270 Win muzzle velocities with the same weight bullets in the '06 and your target won't know the difference out to about 300 yards.

You can also really reduce recoil by duplicating 300 Blackout velocities.

Stay with '06 and you'll be well-served.

Have you tried the 130 load out of your .30-06 for accuracy and felt recoil yet?
I suppose I would start and then go from there.
I too prefer to hunt alone. I live in north west Nebraska and there are more than a few pronghorn here. If you can make it happen to come out I can show you heaps of public and a few private places to hunt.
Though I do not know what out of state tags cost.

Boanerges

That is a sweet offer, and I might take you up on it, but doubt it would be this year. For you and JAsmith, I have NOT tried the 130's yet, but do have a couple boxes of the Barnes' TTSX's in 130 that I do plan on loading up. FYI, according to the Barnes data, with a 24" barrel, a 308 will duplicate the 270 velocities. I am sure a 277 bullet that is 130gr has a higher BC. The .308 Barnes, 130gr is .350 vs the 130 .277 TTSX BC is .392, so long range would be better. That is comparing apples to apples. Barnes does offer an LRX 129gr with a .463 BC, that would no doubt do a lot better.

Having said all that, I am sure the .308 dia version would do it quite well out to 300yds plus. More than enough for me.

Boanerges

When is goat season out there? Never hunted antelope before. I am sure I can find a way to scrounge the $$$ for tags. Somewhere :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handirifle

Boanerges

That is a sweet offer, and I might take you up on it, but doubt it would be this year. For you and JAsmith, I have NOT tried the 130's yet, but do have a couple boxes of the Barnes' TTSX's in 130 that I do plan on loading up. FYI, according to the Barnes data, with a 24" barrel, a 308 will duplicate the 270 velocities. I am sure a 277 bullet that is 130gr has a higher BC. The .308 Barnes, 130gr is .350 vs the 130 .277 TTSX BC is .392, so long range would be better. That is comparing apples to apples. Barnes does offer an LRX 129gr with a .463 BC, that would no doubt do a lot better.

Having said all that, I am sure the .308 dia version would do it quite well out to 300yds plus. More than enough for me.

Boanerges

When is goat season out there? Never hunted antelope before. I am sure I can find a way to scrounge the $$$ for tags. Somewhere :)

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Season dates
Archery: Aug. 20, 2016 – Dec. 31, 2016
Muzzleloader: Sept. 17, 2016 – Oct. 2, 2016
Firearm: Oct. 8, 2016 – Oct. 23, 2016
November late doe/fawn: Nov. 1, 2016 – Jan. 31, 2017
And http://outdoornebraska.gov/hunting/

I will gladly take or point you in the direction to hunt next year!

Every site I have looked at, so far, does not show permits available for firearm, non resident antelope. Do they even offer them? I know some states are limited in non res offerings. CA does not sell non res elk tags, for example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handirifle

Every site I have looked at, so far, does not show permits available for firearm, non resident antelope. Do they even offer them? I know some states are limited in non res offerings. CA does not sell non res elk tags, for example.

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Prairie goat tags are few and the sell out quick. I hunt for meat so I don't get concerned with buck only tags. And as a matter of fact I will be trying archery antelope next year, ought to be neat.
Keep the http://outdoornebraska.gov/hunting/ site handy for next year to watch for season/tap availability.

Are those private land game preserves?

I too, am a meat hunter. Here in CA deer are bucks only, mostly. There are some doe only draw tags but hard to get, and rare. Bucks are fork horn or better, and any legal buck is enough for me. If I had a choice between two, I would probably go for the larger one, body size, not antlers.

You can always get another rifle and have both I do.[emoji41][emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boanerges

Prairie goat tags are few and the sell out quick. I hunt for meat so I don't get concerned with buck only tags. And as a matter of fact I will be trying archery antelope next year, ought to be neat.
Keep the http://outdoornebraska.gov/hunting/ site handy for next year to watch for season/tap availability.

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I discovered that's what those little shacks near the water holes are for when I asked about them.
That would require more patience than I'm capable of, and for sure id be wanting a scoped cross bow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

I had always shot an '06 until I got my first 243. AI cases do last longer,less stretching because there's less taper. I gained maybe 100fps with the AI.I'm pushing 75 Vmaxes over 3800 fps. I use Lapua brass and like to make it last as long as possible.

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So I can ream my std barrel to AI, it just needs to be re-headspaced, right? Do they make AI gauges? I don't really go for the tape thing for headspacing.

How does the AI feed? Oops, I meant how WELL does it feed? Notice any difference?

You might consider getting a 30-06 barrel in as heavy as you can pack and with a faster twist.?

1-12 (not sure how fast but its a 30 cal blank to start with and should be able to get upwards of 1-14 but that is a guess)

That would bias it to the smaller bullets. Shorter chamber to accommodate them

Those would be slower twists. Savage std is 1-10. Barrel change is a decision I would have to make after I actually load the 130's and try them out. Too many things getting in the way of loading and range time for me lately.

A slower twist would make for a faster bullet though, that is for sure. I think the newer M1A's come with 1-11.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handirifle

Those would be slower twists. Savage std is 1-10. Barrel change is a decision I would have to make after I actually load the 130's and try them out. Too many things getting in the way of loading and range time for me lately.

A slower twist would make for a faster bullet though, that is for sure. I think the newer M1A's come with 1-11.

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Definitely try the 130's before going to the expense and bother of a barrel change. They will take care of all deer quite niicely and are more easy on the shoulder than tthe heavier pills.

Regarding twist rate and attainable velocity, physics considerations do indeed suggest that a tiny bit more energy will be siphoned off into the kinetic energy of spinning. The same physics suggest that the resulting loss of attainable speed will be so small that it will be very difficult to observe changes in drop resulting from the change.

Stay with the faster twist if you have any thoughts about heavier bullets. Doubly so for the time when it goes into your estate or give trade or sell the rifle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handirifle

Those would be slower twists. Savage std is 1-10. Barrel change is a decision I would have to make after I actually load the 130's and try them out. Too many things getting in the way of loading and range time for me lately.

A slower twist would make for a faster bullet though, that is for sure. I think the newer M1A's come with 1-11.

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Yep, quick off the head and more numbers should be more twist and its not, its the inch thing, my mistake.

Agreed but I am saying if his gun won't shoot them, he has the option of going slower and getting it in the sweet spot.

1-10 was for the 220 originally, and that was a long bullet.

Its accuracy over that range is amazing how well it shoots and some are great at 130, but not all

With his gun he can get a barrel that is heavier, slower twist and have the best of both worlds as he can go back if he wants but gets the low recoil he wants as well.