Cheap to shoot longer range calibers.

Hi guys. I am tossing around the idea of a new barrel for my .223. The factory barrel is a decent shooter but i feel like it could be better. I currently do most of my shooting at 500 meters max. There is a range about 2 hours from me that will go out to just over 1000 yards that i plan on joining in the near future. I am not looking for a solid 1000 yd performer because I have a 6.5x284 for that. But i am thinking if i get a new barrel that maybe there is a better round than the 223 that will get me out a little further but not break the bank to reload.

Currently i shoot 50 to 100 rounds a week through this rifle so a new round would have to have a good barrel life, preferably less than 30 grains of powder and be easy to get components. I do reload so factory ammo is not necessary.

This rifle also sits in an xlr element chassis that uses aics mags so the ability to mag feed is a must. My first thought was a 6br but the mag feeding may be an issue. I also wonder about a 6.5 Grendel or even a 6mmx45 with 95 grainers. Otherwise should i just get a 8 twist .223 barrel and shoot 77/80 grain match kings then i dont have the added cost of gearing up to load another round.

Thanks in advance for any help

6.5 Grendel is an excellent round. I used to have an AR chambered in it. Was a ton of fun out to 600 yards or so, but anything beyond that and the conditions really needed to be ideal for any type of consistency. 6mm BR would very well suited for 1000 yards, as would the 6mm Creedmoor, though like you said, you may run into issues with mag feeding and they will both put you over that 30 grain threshold.

Otherwise, maybe look into a .22-250? Something in the 6mm family would definitely be my preference, though it sounds like you have an idea of what might suit your needs.

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Originally Posted by WinnieTheBoom

6.5 Grendel is an excellent round. I used to have an AR chambered in it. Was a ton of fun out to 600 yards or so, but anything beyond that and the conditions really needed to be ideal for any type of consistency. 6mm BR would very well suited for 1000 yards, as would the 6mm Creedmoor, though like you said, you may run into issues with mag feeding and they will both put you over that 30 grain threshold.

Otherwise, maybe look into a .22-250? Something in the 6mm family would definitely be my preference, though it sounds like you have an idea of what might suit your needs.

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unfortunately none of those will chamber in an AR-15. You would have to step up to an ar-10.

I have a 6mm ar turbo which is a Grendel necked down to 6mm. It shoots 105 bergers over 2800 fps.

You can buy a savage in 6.5 creedmoor cheaper than you can buy my 6mm upper.

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Originally Posted by MI223

Hi guys. I am tossing around the idea of a new barrel for my .223. This rifle also sits in an xlr element chassis that uses aics mags so the ability to mag feed is a must.
Thanks in advance for any help

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He's not building an AR guys.
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Cheap to shoot and longer range?
243 Winchester, 6.5 Creed, 308 Winchester. Not necessarily in that order.
All three will require a new bolt head and magazine for the AICS.
None will meet your self imposed 30gr powder requirement.

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Originally Posted by Hotolds442

He's not building an AR guys.
[/hijack]

Cheap to shoot and longer range?
243 Winchester, 6.5 Creed, 308 Winchester. Not necessarily in that order.
All three will require a new bolt head and magazine for the AICS.
None will meet your self imposed 30gr powder requirement.

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good!

6br with 30gr of varget is a classic load

I would go with the creedmoor though.

quality bullets are a lot more expensive then powder

Sorry for the confusion but this is a savage model 12. I know that the 6.5 Grendel was developed for the ar15 but i see that others have used them with success. It just seemed like a fair choice with decent long range performance and only using around 30 grains of powder.

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Originally Posted by MI223

Otherwise should i just get a 8 twist .223 barrel and shoot 77/80 grain match kings then i dont have the added cost of gearing up to load another round...

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This.

Buy a match .223 barrel (maybe a Wylde chamber, maybe a 1:7?), and be done with it.

If cost/convenience is a factor, then it doesn't make any sense to pick some wildcat when you could pick the most common centerfire rifle cartridge...

If you want cheap to shoot
And good for longer ranges than a 223, I'd be looking at just about any 6mm cartridge with a reasonably priced high BC bullet like a 105 amax, or something similar

I re-read your post, the fast twist 223 shooting 70 + grain bullets would also be a good option, especially if you don't want to change out the bolt face or magazines

6mmBr. It will reach and wont hurt you in the powder consumption department and barrel life is good.

Another vote for fast twist 6br Norma, single shot follower and a .473 bolt head. Very very accurate, and hardly kick's at all. Jim at Apache Gun Works can spin a great barrel for a real good price.

Every man should have several 6BR's handy,, even the BRX and Dasher's are great options. But the plain 6BR is so simple for dies, and components. Many powder and bullet options too.

Has anyone reported a savage that will feed the 6br from mags? That is my first pick but it must feed from a mag.

I have been thinking alot about a .223 to shoot the heavy bullets. Would you guy stick with an 8 twist for the 70 to 80 grainers or would you go with a 1 in 7". Also how long would you go? I like shorter barrels but not at a huge expense of performance would 20in be enough or should I go 22 or 24?

Thanks for all the imput

Honest question: why do you need to feed from a mag at those ranges?

Are you concerned about quick follow ups on paper that far out?

Maybe a bit more info?

What would you think of a 6.8 SPC?

Suposedly will launch a 115 gr. at 2800fps. Designed to feed from a mag. A bit shorter than 223.

Why be a trend follower when you can be a trend setter?

I don't have one, but I am intrigued.

I'd build a 7 or 8 twist 223 and be done with it. Simple barrel change, and will get you good, cheap, easy mid-long range shooting. I'm really toying with building a 223 trainer rifle for these reasons.

No real important reason for feeding from a mag. I hqd a PTA with a 30in bull 6 br a few years back. It was an incredible shooter that was only good for one thing and that was putting tiny groups on paper. It didn't take long and i got board with that style of shooting. I have never participated in any of the prs style matches but am very interested. I am not going to build a dedicated rifle for something i know little about. I am just trying to keep my options open if i ever found myself at one of them matchs. I know with any of these i would be very handy caped but like i said i dont want to build a job specific rifle at this point. I currently like to shoot steel at various ranges with quick strings of fire.

I do plan on competing in a mid range fclass or 2 but that is not my primary purpose. Also i plan to coyote hunt with this rifle and follow up shots are a must. It is a good thing i usually dont have to carry it to far while hunting because this thing is getting heavy. Lol

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Originally Posted by Texas10

What would you think of a 6.8 SPC?

Suposedly will launch a 115 gr. at 2800fps. Designed to feed from a mag. A bit shorter than 223.

Why be a trend follower when you can be a trend setter?

I don't have one, but I am intrigued.

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I agree and not to afraid to try something a little different but from what i read the ballistics on that and the Grendel are the same out to about 300 after that the Grendel is by far a flatter shooter. But i also have no experience just what i read on the Internet.

If it is on the Internet it must be true right?lol

Does the OP have the ability to reload, or will he have to purchase ammo off the shelf? What kinds of ammo are available in your area? Some cartridges that can perform at long ranges that can be found off the shelf: 6.5creedmoor, 308 Winchester, 7mm-08 should all be about the same price range. For more expensive, you can look at 300win mag and 7mm rem mag. All cartridges can be found in most sporting goods stores with A-Max at least, and dedicated match for rounds like 308 winchester.

223AI. Long case life, only uses a little more powder than the standard 223 and you get an added 100-150fps in velocity.
And very easy to load and fire form. Plus you already have cases from the rifle you have now.

GB

How about a 6.5x47 Lapua, or a 6x47 Lapua?

You said cheap so stick with a fast twist 223 or 223AI, or go with a 308 win.

How about a .260?

I'm not sure what a 204 ruger costs to shoot, but it's been seemingly very good at fairly long range while being adequate for varmints. There is a video on YouTube of a guy with one doing some pretty amazing shooting. Otherwise, a variant of 308 like a 7mm-08 or 6.5 creedmoor would be ideal. You can get 308 components cheap and neck brass down to 7mm.


I'm gonna tell you this much though, DON'T get a round just because it has the cheapest possible round selection. If anything, choose based on availability because you will very quickly start buying premium components and cost savings over other rounds go out the door. The accuracy/precision bug is expensive. If you don't want it, dont buy a gun that allows you to do it. :-)

Thanks for the help guys. I would like any of the .308 based rounds or something similar but that is not what i am looking for in this rifle. It looks like I may just stick with the 223 and be happy.

Thanks again everyone

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Originally Posted by Texas10

What would you think of a 6.8 SPC?

Suposedly will launch a 115 gr. at 2800fps. Designed to feed from a mag. A bit shorter than 223.

Why be a trend follower when you can be a trend setter?

I don't have one, but I am intrigued.

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Because they suck at longer ranges.

No need to over think it. 243 Win, 6.5 Creed, 6mm Br even the plain ole 308 Win will work for what you are wanting, especially when the words easy or cheap enter the picture.

A 6.8 spc is more like a slug,,short bullet.

when you are talking 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 spc I assume you are talking about an AR-15. No one in their right mind would use one in a bolt gun where there are so many better options available.

I'd use my 260 Rem for long range. That said, there's a lot of undue misguided hate for the 6.8spc. The slow 1:12 twist barrel in my Axis won't stabilize the 130VLD, but using a barrel with the right specs 1000 yards is possible. This is what the 130 Berger VLD on 223CFE from an 18" barrel and a 2.32 OAL is capable of:

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/...psf9kahdz0.jpg

I'm having a great time "not being in my right mind"! I have a 6.5 Grendel in a Savsge bolt rifle, and a 6.8 SPC in a TC Contender. I guess all those world class marksman shooting 6mm BR's, Dashers, etc., in bolt rifles, "are not in their right mind" either?

No, not misguided and not hatred. Change your 5000 ft elevation to the highest point in Michigan, 1980 ft ABSL and see how it looks. About 80 inches more drop than a 308 Win. 2600 FPS is over pressure by Quickload and even comes with "These are warm handloads out of my weapon" by the guy who posted this on AR Forums. 2500 fps is mildly warm according to Quickload (65K psi) and at 2500 fps you get 470 inches of drop. That sucks.

Stick with the 6, 6.5 or 7mm because the Amax is cheap compared to the Berger. Or just spin on a fast twist .223 AI and have at it.

Nothing wrong with a 6.8 sps,, nothing wrong with a BB gun. If you can have fun with it and if it interests you then it is all good.

The least expensive would be the 6BR, if using a standard load brass lasting 30 cycles is common and only 30gr of powder is needed per load.

Dean

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Originally Posted by GaryB

223AI. Long case life, only uses a little more powder than the standard 223 and you get an added 100-150fps in velocity.
And very easy to load and fire form. Plus you already have cases from the rifle you have now.

GB

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+1, I have one I built with 8" twist and it shoots the 80 grain VLD bullets well out to 800 yards for me (farthest I've shot it to date).

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Originally Posted by Jamie

No, not misguided and not hatred. Change your 5000 ft elevation to the highest point in Michigan, 1980 ft ABSL and see how it looks. About 80 inches more drop than a 308 Win. 2600 FPS is over pressure by Quickload and even comes with "These are warm handloads out of my weapon" by the guy who posted this on AR Forums. 2500 fps is mildly warm according to Quickload (65K psi) and at 2500 fps you get 470 inches of drop. That sucks.

Stick with the 6, 6.5 or 7mm because the Amax is cheap compared to the Berger. Or just spin on a fast twist .223 AI and have at it.

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The 5000ft had been used repeatedly along with Hornady's inflated BC's on their 123gr bullets by the guy spewing grendel propaganda on that forum. It was just used as a common point of reference. I'm not going to sit here and play a numbers game.

When I worked up that load I was able to match his velocity without so much as a flattened primer in my 20" Savage, but like I said, I would need a faster twist than my 3 groove 1:12 barrel to stabilize that long of a bullet. It would work just fine out of the barrel I linked to, and his "warm handloads" were out of a 16" barrel.

Quickload has never been able to even come close to actual tested pressure trace or velocity in the 6.8spc. It's a useful tool for determining a good powder to start with on a new cartridge, but don't count on it for more than that.

This isn't the place for a caliber war, especially one where neither caliber is ideal for the OP's topic, so I'm done here. Shoot what you want and be happy with it.

My personal favorite is the 22-250, it is accurate and if you reload relatively easy on the pocket.