Anyone else hate most prefit barrel offering?

I know I'm going to be in the minority here, but man I hate most of the prefit barrel options being offered by most distributors. I mean if more people were like me they'd be offering what I want right? I just hate all the Varmint and Bull barrel offerings, can't there be at least a sporter version offered up every once in awhile. What I'd love to see is some Savage lightweight hunter contours offered up in short action chambers in the 20-22" barrel length range every once in awhile. I mean since I have to wait 16+ weeks for a custom barrel the contour I want I usually just send off a Remington or Winchester action to have the barrel installed, and the have better options for light weight hunting stocks anyway vs. the Savage, and they usually have them in stock.

Don't get me wrong I still use the heavy barrels from time to time, and have even had a few turned down. However, that really doesn't save me much money in the end vs. having a smith install and chamber the barrel. I guess one of these days I'm going to have to see if there is enough interest in doing a group buy on some lightweight contour barrels from CBI, McGowen or other prefit barrel maker.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7rc09awv.jpg
Something like this would get my attention. But threaded n chambered prefit doesn't seem likely.

What about The Barrel Outlet? They have a two-week wait but give a lot of contour options in a handful of popular calibers and chamberings.

It's true there aren't a whole lot of ready to ship sporter barrels. My guess is there just isn't the same demand for lightweight replacement barrels that there is for heavies. Maybe sporter barrels aren't typically shot as much and don't wear out as soon.

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Originally Posted by taylorce1

I know I'm going to be in the minority here, but man I hate most of the prefit barrel options being offered by most distributors. I mean if more people were like me they'd be offering what I want right? I just hate all the Varmint and Bull barrel offerings, can't there be at least a sporter version offered up every once in awhile. What I'd love to see is some Savage lightweight hunter contours offered up in short action chambers in the 20-22" barrel length range every once in awhile. I mean since I have to wait 16+ weeks for a custom barrel the contour I want I usually just send off a Remington or Winchester action to have the barrel installed, and the have better options for light weight hunting stocks anyway vs. the Savage, and they usually have them in stock.

Don't get me wrong I still use the heavy barrels from time to time, and have even had a few turned down. However, that really doesn't save me much money in the end vs. having a smith install and chamber the barrel. I guess one of these days I'm going to have to see if there is enough interest in doing a group buy on some lightweight contour barrels from CBI, McGowen or other prefit barrel maker.

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Several good points made above.

What would you like to see in sporter contours?

Dennis

"Hate" is a powerful word ! :-(

I have managed to get more sporter weight barrels than I could ever need off eBay.

Yeah, and there's plenty of new or barely used ones that show up in the classifieds... I have a feeling if you posted a 'WTB' thread in any chambering that you wanted, you'd probably have people lining up to try and sell them. I have a feeling that most guys that rebarrel their rifles just don't know that they can sell the take-off or just don't feel like going through the hassle.

The other part of it is, guys that buy the varmint countoured prefits are looking for better accuracy. Not that a sporter barrel can't be accurate, but 9 times out of 10, those with sporter barreled rifles use them maybe a handful of times in a year. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of them aren't looking to spend ~$250 on another barrel when it's not going to do much to increase performance and costs about the same as a heavy barrel to begin with.

Dennis,

I'd love to have a contour that closely resembles the Remington sporter contour but finish around .600 at 20" and has very little or no shank sticking past the barrel nut. Something like this one that I custom ordered in 6mm-222 Remington Mag.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...Picture012.jpg

Though as you can see there is a little gap between the nut and the barrel because the maker didn't quite get it right but it wasn't enough to make me want to send it back. It's mainly because I changed the recoil lug to the .250 SSS lug, which I thought I'd explained when I ordered the barrel but I did it over the phone so it wasn't written in email or anything like that. Plus the gap in the barrel channel isn't horrible with the factory tupperware stock.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...Picture009.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...Picture015.jpg

I'd love to see them offered in these calibers 7-8 twist .224, 7.5-8 twist 6mm, 8 twist 6.5mm, 8 twist 7mm, and 10 twist .308. Now I realize that that "The Barrel Outlet" has most of these already. However they don't do shorter than 22" barrels nor do they offer .224 calibers. Plus with a .600 muzzle diameter there should be plenty of meat on the barrel for threading for muzzle break or flash suppressor adapters for running suppressors.

The factory take off sporter barrels that you can get on Ebay are usually lacking the twist rates I'm looking for to reliably run VLD, LRAB and other high BC bullets. While the factory .243 barrel will usually run the 105 A-Max, winter time when air densities are higher at lower altitudes can cause them to become unstable. Plus if I buy a factory sporter and take it to someone with a lathe who can cut it down to my desired length, thread it for brake or suppressor, and re-crown how much money have I saved over ordering a custom prefit?

With the right cartridge choices a lot of mid range to long range shooting can be done with a 20" barrel or shorter. Plus even though these barrels will be lighter contour than the current 26" varmint and bull prefit offerings they'll be plenty stiff enough to give the bigger barrels a run for their money in accuracy. While it seems everyone wants to reach that 1000 yard mark I find the majority of my shooting is short to mid range where these barrels will shine, and my guess is most other people are shooting the same ranges I do.

While this has nothing to do with lighter contour prefit barrels, the rifle stock situation sucks for those of us who want a lighter contour barrel. Basically we have the choices of a $100 Boyd's stock or a $500+ McMillan or Manners stock. I know there are some stocks in between those prices like Stockade, High Tech, and MPI but they're unfinished, and if you pay someone to finish them then the cost as much as a McMillan or Manners drop in ready stock. I'd really love to see a B&C classic sporter Medalist or bring back the Carbelite for the 4.4" centerfeed actions.

BTW this is the first 5 shot group I shot with the 6mm-222 RM. The charges were in 1 grain charges starting with 25 grains of H335 and finishing with 29 grains. I was looking for pressure and a minimum of 3000 fps from a 70 grain bullet. I needed a minimum of a 6mm 70 grain bullet and 3000 fps to meet the requirements for big game hunting in Colorado.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/t...huntload_1.jpg

I found that 26.5 grains of H335 and CCI 450 primers gave me between 3050-3100 fps with both 70 grain NBT and Sierra BK and it'll hold better than MOA for 5+ shots rapid fire.

70 grain TNT vs. NBT
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...ain%206X47.jpg


For three shots I'm usually able to hold much tighter groups, but my 12 twist barrel hates anything heavier than a 70 grain bullet.

70 grain Sierra BK
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/t...6x470004_1.jpg

70 grain NBT vs. 80 grain Speer Deep Curl
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/70vs80-1.jpg

Just go to manufactures website, pick out what you want, talk with barrel distributor. Some if not all distributors have a barrel profile chart. For example Shilen has a 22" .600" @ muzzle. Order what you want to your specs.

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Originally Posted by short round

Just go to manufactures website, pick out what you want, talk with barrel distributor. Some if not all distributors have a barrel profile chart. For example Shilen has a 22" .600" @ muzzle. Order what you want to your specs.

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I totally understand that concept of ordering a custom barrel, what I'm trying to talk about is really the price. If you go to and look at NSS their CBI barrels and the X-Caliber barrels Dennis offer they run $300-340 per barrel for varmint and bull contours. To get something similar to what I want it's $480+/- per barrel buying direct from a manufacturer. I'm just trying to gage interest to see if we can compromise on a sporter weight barrel design to make it worthwhile to do a group buy. These barrels would have to be something that wasn't offered as a normal twist or contour to get people interested though.

Almost every barrel manufacturer I've talked to will give me a discount of 10% if I order five barrels at once, but if I order 25 the savings in quite a bit more. However, I don't want to get stuck with five barrels let alone 25 even if I collected 50% deposit up front. So if we could find a contour and length we all agree on for a sporter weight barrel it might be worth the effort for a prefit distributor to put together a special buy on sporter weight prefit barrels in multiple calibers. The biggest issue will be finding a contour and length we can all agree on, I'm pretty sure Dennis grasped my concept right away and that's why he asked me "Several good points made above. What would you like to see in sporter contours?"

Check out Gun Shack, a sponsor here. They have sorter contourso from time to time. I recently got a McGowen 24" savage sporter in 6.5x55 from them. They have a few calibers in sorter configuration now.

I'd bet McGowen would cut a barrel shorter for you.

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Originally Posted by SEshooter

Check out Gun Shack, a sponsor here. They have sorter contourso from time to time. I recently got a McGowen 24" savage sporter in 6.5x55 from them. They have a few calibers in sorter configuration now.

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If I wanted an ER Shaw sporter barrel in a common cartridge and twist I'd just order it from Midway USA for a lot less money.

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Originally Posted by Newsshooter

I'd bet McGowen would cut a barrel shorter for you.

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Sure they would for nearly $500 and a 16 week wait. Again the point is to maybe get a prefit dealer to consider stocking sporter weight barrels in something like an 8 twist 6XC or Creedmoor for those of us bored by a 10 twist .243 Win.

Apache Gun Works or Skinner Gun Works or Bison Gun works will build whatever contour and length you want. Not an issue whatsoever.

They do great work and turn around time is quicker than snot most of the time.

I'm sure that most folks stock what is selling for them so I can't blame them. It would be nice to see a few lighter shorter barrels listed. Dan at McGowen will usually make you anything you want but you'll wait 16 weeks and pay for it. Criterion is inflexible. Kreiger has some good profiles so I can't understand why Criterion can't have them email the profile contour for their CNC. If weight is a big thing for you for your matches the railroad axles are for the birds.

Custom is custom after all. The market drives what the distributors stock because they can move it. If they could move the barrel you want they would stock it. You could do a group buy.

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Originally Posted by Iowa Fox

I'm sure that most folks stock what is selling for them so I can't blame them. It would be nice to see a few lighter shorter barrels listed. Dan at McGowen will usually make you anything you want but you'll wait 16 weeks and pay for it. Criterion is inflexible. Kreiger has some good profiles so I can't understand why Criterion can't have them email the profile contour for their CNC. If weight is a big thing for you for your matches the railroad axles are for the birds.

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Fact is most people don't ever put over a 100 rounds down a sporter barrel during the rifle's lifetime, and usually a factory sporter barrel is accurate shooting 300 yards or less, maybe 400 yards. One of the most accurate hunting rifles I have is a $400.00 270 Savage with a sport barrel . I have kept it years for this reason. I might have 200 rounds down the tube. Only factory ammo has been shot out of this rifle. I don't even own dies for a 270 strictly because I only use it a few times a year, and maybe 10 shots top for the year.

Most want to change their sporter barrel to a Light Varmint, or Heavy Varmint barrel. F-Class shooters want Bull Barrels anywhere from 26" to 32".

So stocking Pre-Fit sporter barrels would be tough for any business. There's too much of a variety to stock all of them.

JMO, Dennis

PS: 3 or 4 shots out of my Factory 270 as described above (100 yards). The only thing I have done to this rifle is tweaked the trigger to my spec's, plus put a good scope on it. The scope cost 4 times as much as the rifle!

http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/a...pslzidma0n.jpg

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Originally Posted by taylorce1

If I wanted an ER Shaw sporter barrel in a common cartridge and twist I'd just order it from Midway USA for a lot less money.

Sure they would for nearly $500 and a 16 week wait. Again the point is to maybe get a prefit dealer to consider stocking sporter weight barrels in something like an 8 twist 6XC or Creedmoor for those of us bored by a 10 twist .243 Win.

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Hmmm, I just went online and what did they have for $345 but a 8 twist 6.5 CM in a ultralightweight sporter at 22 inches. :p

Here's some of their contours.
Ultra Light Sporter (McGowen #1) 1 1.180″ 2.25″ 2.50″ .570″ 22″ 2 1/2 lbs
Lightweight Sporter (McGowen #2) 2 1.200″ 2.50″ 2.50″ .600″ 24″ 3 lbs
Regular Sporter (McGowen #3) 3 1.200″ 2.50″ 2.50″ .625″ 26″ 3 1/2 lbs
Medium Sporter (McGowen #4) 4 1.200″ 2.62″ 2.50″ .650″ 28″ 4 lbs

I don't see your logic...contours and lengths are governed by barrel OD, caliber and legalities and there are only so many contours available reasonably...besides every barrel maker/provider will cut whatever profile you want if you give them the dimensions and more money....most contours are "standardized" anyway and most shooters have their own likes/dislikes...plus ditto on most of the already mentioned reasons...but each to his/her own. I've been playing with Savages since they first came out and I have a stack of barrels just sitting around waiting. I wouldn't sell them because some are well used, some I just like and many are wildcats and NO ONE would give me the cost of the barrel, dies and reamers. I went "nutless" long ago also because it is much easier to set up a barrel, mill on a flat and use a crescent wrench like we did way back in my benchrest days with rem's.You DON'T have to muck about with a headspace gage except during initial chamber cutting...then witness mark. Most of my "aftermarket" barrels I did can be locked on with just a snap of the wrists...getting of needs a couple of wrench's. I've used just about every barrel maker's barrels on my 5 Savage actions but I like McGowen best because I can usually get them quicker.I'm not sure that ER Shaw supplies Midway...but it's possible...they used to be Adams and Bennett...but who knows for certain and that is time dependent also...Shaw supplies lots of military barrels as do some/most of the other barrel makers.You have to be careful when ordering barrels...you can rack up the dollars if you can't do the metalwork your self...I paid less than $200 for my last McGowan...50 cal cylinder, full length. In some cases and calibers you can buy a new rifle for not much more than the cost of a fancy barrel.

I'm with CE. I'm a Sporter fan, usually 24 or 26".
My rifles are built for hunting primarily.
I've had Jim at Apache do a few for me and turn them to Sporter contours. They've been excellent FWIW.
It would be great to be able to find more "hunting" contours although I do understand Dennis' comments.

Give the Barrel Outlet a call and let them know what you want length wise.. I ordered a semi-custom McGowen barrel in 25 inches and didn't get charged extra for it.. Most barrel makers charge extra past 26 inches in length... On a semi-custom its a simple cut to the length you want then crown the barrel.. The crowning part has to be done any way.

I like the heavy barrel's for hunting. Heavy barrel,, steady hold.

ive converted to using a "hybrid" weight. a savage magnum or heavy sporter contour, call it what you want. its .700" at muzzle.
requires a lighter sporter stock, i went with a Mcmillan A3 sporter. still heavy enough to shoot groups with, light enough to hunt with. still works great for long range.

but everytime they are always special order... just ordered a third barrel in this contour from northland. a CBI like this is the same price as the rest. $300 and some change.

I too would like to see more prefit in stock ready to ship offerings in sporter and magnum contour barrels. I would like them a good 26" though. I have two designated match/bench rifles and a whole safe full of long range hunting rifles that I require match grade quality for what I do. 26" barrels in a shilen #4 contour offered in 25's, 6.5's and 7mm's of all kinds.

The reason nobody offers pre-fit sporter barrels is because the barrel market is always flooded with factory take-off sporter barrels that have consistently proven to shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA with good handloads, and such barrels can typically be had for less than $100. Why spend $200-400 on an aftermarket barrel for a hunting rifle when a factory sporter barrel can be had for much less and is more than accurate enough for hunting purposes? Only real reason to go aftermarket on a sporter barrel is if you want it chambered for a cartridge that isn't available from the factory.

The barrel makers and brokers know that 95%+ of those looking for a pre-fit aftermarket barrel are going to be wanting a heavy barrel for long-range varmint hunting or competitive shooting so it makes no sense for them to tie up their money in stocking sporter weight barrels that are just going to sit there and collect dust until a rare individual like yourself comes along. For every sporter barrel they sell, they'll sell 100 heavy barrels.

Now factor in all the different cartridges - what maker or broker wants to tie up his money in dozens of pre-fit sporter barrels in various lengths and cartridges for a once in a blue moon sale of one?

In a nutshell; "No body will make me exactly what I want, fast enough or cheap enough".
I guess that makes you "special":(

Lothar Walther in Cummings Georgia will do just about any configuration you could want and their prices are reasonable.

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Originally Posted by taylorce1

Don't get me wrong I still use the heavy barrels from time to time, and have even had a few turned down. However, that really doesn't save me much money in the end vs. having a smith install and chamber the barrel. I guess one of these days I'm going to have to see if there is enough interest in doing a group buy on some lightweight contour barrels from CBI, McGowen or other prefit barrel maker.

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Gun Shack does sell McGowen in 24' sporter contour:

http://www.gunshack.com/mcgowen-barrels

We don't have the capability to chamber barrels so we have to order them from McGowen already chambered. This means it makes it hard to have a HUGE variety in stock and ready to ship. I think we have a fair selection and I'm always open to suggestions on what we should keep in stock.

Lance

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Originally Posted by taylorce1

I know I'm going to be in the minority here, but man I hate most of the prefit barrel options being offered by most distributors. I mean if more people were like me they'd be offering what I want right?

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Nowhere did I ever come across as not understanding why suppliers don't stock sporter prefit barrels? I totally understand how retail works, and worked in it for more years than I cared to. I posted mainly to see if there was any interest in a possible group buy through a distributor that could get prices down to near $300 per barrel, I even mentioned this in one of my later posts. I also understood I was going to have to compromise on what I wanted to get a group buy going.

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

The reason nobody offers pre-fit sporter barrels is because the barrel market is always flooded with factory take-off sporter barrels that have consistently proven to shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA with good handloads, and such barrels can typically be had for less than $100. Why spend $200-400 on an aftermarket barrel for a hunting rifle when a factory sporter barrel can be had for much less and is more than accurate enough for hunting purposes?

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The only two factory barrel Savage currently has that interest me are the 8 twist 6.5mm barrels and the 9 twist .223 for turning into a .22-250. Savage like most firearm manufacturers has failed to keep up with bullet technology and the majority of the twists are too slow to stabalize a lot of bullets offered now. Take the 9.25 twist .243 for example it can't reliably stabilize the 105 grain A-Max 100% of the time at all elevations and temperatures. They should be running an 8" twist in .223, and all 6mm and 7mm calibers to take advantage of the bullets available for hunting.

Brian Litz did a test on the Nosler LRAB and found the majority of factory twisted rifles couldn't take advantage of the BC of these bullets because they weren't spinning fast enough. Plus when I'm out hunting predators why would I want to drag along a 10+ lbs varmint rig when a light weight .223 running 75+ grain or .243 with 105+ grain bullets gives me the range I need for the dog that hangs up out to 600+ yards? Hell I'd love to see a factory .270 Win with an 8 or 9" twist rate.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

In a nutshell; "No body will make me exactly what I want, fast enough or cheap enough".
I guess that makes you "special":(

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Nope I'm not special, I can get what I want and even pay for it. I was just testing the waters only to find out I like to swim a different direction. However for the extra cost to get what I want for a Savage I can build on a Remington cheaper, by cutting costs elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by DanSavage

I like the heavy barrel's for hunting. Heavy barrel,, steady hold.

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That's because you don't hunt anywhere near the terrain, I hunt where you start out 4000 feet above sea level to above timberline. Pack a heavy rifle on a mule deer or elk hunt for up to 10 miles a day changing as much as 2000-3000 feet in elevation and see if you still like your heavy rifle. If all I hunted was in a box blind, tree stand, or the occasional deer drive I wouldn't mind a heavy rifle either. Our hunting situations are as vastly different as our rifle barrel preference.

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Originally Posted by lskok

Gun Shack does sell McGowen in 24' sporter contour:

http://www.gunshack.com/mcgowen-barrels

We don't have the capability to chamber barrels so we have to order them from McGowen already chambered. This means it makes it hard to have a HUGE variety in stock and ready to ship. I think we have a fair selection and I'm always open to suggestions on what we should keep in stock.

Lance

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Lance,

I'll consider it in the future, the .243 barrel would be tempting except I just bought one. I got in on a group buy of 25 rifles and bought a custom shop MRC Extreme 2 SS .243 rifle with an 8 twist 22” #2 barrel for just over $1200 after transfer fees. The rifle comes with a sub MOA guarantee and will weigh less than 8.5 lbs when scoped. The other cool thing about it is it's throated for the 105 A-Max at 2.85” OAL at .010 off the he lands, and has a magazine box of 3.1" so I can chase the lands as the throat wears.

Now if you had a 6x45 of 6x204 Ruger sporter I'd be all over that. I can cut and crown my own barrel back to 20" without too much hassle. I have a buddy with all the hand tools to do an 11 degree crown. I'd also be interested in a 6mm Creedmoor.

Not on the shelf but Black Hole can certainly provide you with the profile you want and you won't need to take out a second mortgage. Plus they'll give you 10% iff because you are a member here.

Greg