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Been reading a lot about 22 inch barrels and how well they work?
Supposed to be better harmonics,ect?
Anyone on here using the shorter barrels,and if so what is your
opinion on them? I know the muzzle velocity will be a bit slower,
but as i have always said,speed isn't all that important as long as
the accuracy is there..Be happy to hear your thoughts on this..
Ace all I know is I have barrels from 20 to 28 inches and several of the shorter ones were the best shooting. The 223 under the pic on the left of this post is a 20 inch McGowen and is one of the most tolerant of loads I have ever owned. I have a target of 10 rounds at 100 yds. n .173 center to center with 2 different bullets and powders.
I have a 20" bull barrel from Shilen on my 308 and I can confirm that it is the most accurate and load tolerant barrel I've ever shot. I have yet to find a load that will shoot more than moa at 100. 95% of the factory loads I've tested print 3/4 moa and less.
I have played some with short barrels -- some as short as 28-inches.
But much prefer 32-inch or longer barrels.
In the story of the "Houston Warehouse Project", Virgil King says "the perfect barrel length is 21.75" " for shooting groups of .025" at 100yds. Hard to argue with the success that went on there! :-)
I suppose that's great info if all you do is shoot groups at 100yds... I've been debating trying out a shorter barrel, but the 26" barrels for my 243Win have just been working so well I don't want to spend money on a barrel and not like it. I did order a 22" 308 barrel in the same contour, but I haven't ran it yet on my switch barrel set up. I'm thinking about throwing it on for a few months of practice before I go to a larger match with the 243. I've read quite a bit of info that the amount of velocity lost on a 6mm, 6.5mm, or even 308 is negligible and one guy even picked up speed going from a 26" barrel to a 22" with a suppressor. keeping him within 25fps of his original velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW Conch
Best thing to do is try it out and see if you like it.
well,i read that story as well..i shoot out to 500 at the most,so far anyway...
thats why i'm askin here..how well the shorties perform over 100 yards..
Frank Galli of Rifles Only did a video of a 6.5 Creedmoor with an 18" barrel going out to 1125yds and put like 6-7 out of 10 on the plate. I believe it was one of his 5 shot Friday vids. Highly capable still, but your Hit % Ratio will go down due to requiring more precise wind calls. A 140gr 6.5 at 2600fps will still whoop a 175SMK moving at 2600fps though for comparison and theory.
When i clicked on this thread I fully expected it to be about "short barrels. You know 16"-18" not standard length hunting barrels. I was a bit surprised.
I have a couple of factory sporters that shoot very well indeed and I gave up on lugging around telephone poles in the field quite a while back.
My favorite hunting rig is an older flatback 22" 116FLCSAK in 30-06 that has put 10 into .446 at 100 and I promise nothing wants to be on the business end of that rifle at any range. (2"" or so of the "factory" length is brake).
Then there is an old flatback 111F sporter with a 22" pencil barrel in 25-06 that I put together for my youngest son. After reading all the online experts you'd never even guess it'll put down 5 shot groups that you can cover with a dime all day and has quite effectively slain every deer that has had the trigger pulled on it out to 350 or so. Also it has plenty of velocity to get the job done quite effectively even with a "short barrel. A fella I let shoot it at the range was trying to trade me an engraved browning medallion for it and couldn't understand why I couldn't trade away my youngest sons first deer rifle for his embellished beauty.
For my last project I took a factory takeoff .308 barrel and cut it down to 16" for a farm rifle carbine project. So far the results have been very good indeed and again nothing wants to be on the business end at any range.
Yeah I still have rifles with long heavy barrels, heavy laminated stocks etc and they shoot great, but just seeing the look on the tactitools and high end rifle snobs faces and hearing the excuses at the range once you get a good load worked up for an Savage factory sporter hunting rifle that may or may not have had a little kitchen table tinkering is a great sport in itself.
I only run "short" barrels. Shoot out to 1400 yards with some of them.......
308 and the like in a 16" is still a "great" 600 yard gun........ NO 308 is even a "good" 800 yard gun in my opinion..... Did not say it could not be done, just that it was not well suited to those ranges regardless of barrel length. Considering available alternatives.
The longest barrels I own (24") are on a few 338 edge rifles and a 300wsm....... Can still take them to a mile and beyond.
More accurate because of barrel length? Couldn't say because if they had 30" barrels they would not get used!
I assume there is something to it only because I have found it so EASY to build 1/4"-1/8" MOA guns (one after another, after another and so on) when so many folks struggle to do so.
I like shooting but am by no means an >>>unusually<<< talented marksmen........ or gunsmith for that matter.
By "easy to build", do you mean short barreled rifles- 16", 18", 20", etc. ?
Thanks ... Jim :-)
Yep.
Standard calibers mostly running 16-20"..... Big rem ultra mag (90 grain) magnums in 24". I personally do not and will not run longer than 24"+brake. The handling characteristics become a negative for what I use them for.
Where even a full bull of 24" or less is very manageable.
All the velocity in the world is useless if it's sitting in a safe at home because you hate carrying it!
Of course a "true bench gun" would change the equation and justify heavy and long but for what I do it is either or......not both.
I shoot a bunch of shorter barrels. 15"-18" on specialty pistols. If you think accuracy is an issue with shorter barrels then you simply have no experience and read too much on the interwebs. Yes, at distance it can be frustrating (distance meaning over 600 yards) because the bullet is hanging in the wind longer. If you miss a wind call you do not have velocity to help cover your mistake, it glares. I usually shoot steel at distance and not for groups. Last time I shot my .243 Win 17" barrel SP for group at distance it was a 3.75" at 950 yards. On that day I took a fellow I knew from work that was a door gunner years ago in a land far away. I set the steel up at 950 and he could not wrap his head around how far we were going to shoot. I dialed in the distance into the scope and let her fly. Four shots, four hits. He was amazed and sat down behind it to find out three shots and three hits later that short barrels shoot.
A friend of mine over in Gillette has shot prairie dogs at 1800 yards with a SP in 6-284, IIRC.
Right now I am tinkering with a 6x47 Lapua in an 18" barrel. Accuracy seems to be around .3 MOA, just need a range day where the wind isn't 30 mph to see what it can do further out.
Really depends on the caliber, but I prefer short bull barrels. I have an 21" 338 edge, 16" 308 and 18" 223 all bull barrels and threaded with brakes so they can be suppressed. Had the 308 out to 1k. Haven't had a chance to take the 338 out there since "it tears up their steel plates" haha
Jamie, I'd like to hear more about your 243 Specialty Pistol (details). I'm working on one right now for Wy-Shot and the MOA 2016 which will be in 243. Been there the last two years and good lord willing I'll be there next year with a 243 off a Savage Target Action.
I had a 26" Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor cut to 18".
I lost roughly 180fps...but am still launching 140s @ 2640.
No decrease in accuracy, but much handier with for hunting.
I'm getting ready to rebarrel a 308 into a shorter fatter 308. Can't decide how short to go with it. 16.5, 18, or 20. Decisions, decisions.
Ace,
Shorter barrels are always more rigid, thus having to tune around barrel whip becomes much less critical. Varmint Al has some animations to help wrap your mind around it, if you can't visualize.
If you plan on running suppressed, make sure you get a solid 2 revolutions prior to bullet exit; otherwise baffle strikes are not uncommon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkker
So running a 10 twist barrel 308 needs at least 20"? Hrmmm.... Definitely plan on running a can on my setup, but was really thinking about going 18" or even 16.5"...
I think he's just speaking toward his can specifically. You'd have to get the specs from whatever manufacturer your purchasing from. I've seen plenty of suppressed shortly 308s.Quote:
Originally Posted by upSLIDEdown
Don't let one comment become another internet myth!
welll said lonewolf..there's a lot of that on the web..in other words a lot of hear say..Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Im thinking about shortening my barrel up to 20" after a year or so. Its a brand new shilen, but ill wait a while. Mainly depends on how hunting goes. If it ends up being way to long, ill shorten it. Either way, I got a 28" 7mm krieger im going to chamber to 300 RSUAM so ill have a long range barrel if I need it. If i need to go further, then Ill go up to a 338 and then you can go 408s and 416s and then 50s and then you can go to cannons and then missiles, and then nukes. Take your pick. I can make it work!!!
I guess that 7mm to 300 RSAUM will be a complete re-bore ? :-)
If you whack the skinny end off of a factory sporter you wind up with a shorter fatter barrel. Just something to think about. That's what I did going from 22" down to 16" and it worked out very well for my application. No extra unnecessary weight and very handy.Quote:
Originally Posted by upSLIDEdown
7mm chambered to 300 rsaum CASE. Should have said 7mm saum, but im thinking of 7mm wsm which is different then 7mm-300 wsmQuote:
Originally Posted by FW Conch
10/4 :-)
This may not be the correct place to ask this question, so if that's the case, sorry.
Isn't the biggest knock on the 308 is that it's tough to get good velocity out of them? And wouldn't cutting it down to 16" just extend that issue? I've heard anywhere from 20-50 fps per inch.
Actually, most people say the "best" shorty caliber is 308 because they lose less velocity per inch than other calibers.
I lost 22.5fps/inch with my 6.5 Creedmoor going from 26" to 18"...which means it has the same velocity as 7.62x51 Mk316 Mod 0 from a 24" barrel, with a bullet having a much higher ballistic coefficient.
Very interesting. Thanks for the info. Always looking to learn.
Yeah, but I want it a little fatter than that will provide. That would give me a .650" muzzle, and I want at least a .800" I think. Maybe .850". Threaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by big honkin jeep
thats the reason for my thinking of wacking the barrel..it don't shoot
worth a crap now anyway..I am thinking if it gets wacked off that
maybe,or perhaps it will shoot better...Nothing to loose anyway..so
if it doesnt improve,so be it..I'll just get another new barrel.I really
appreciate all you valued replies...
Short barrel vs long barrel to me has only mattered in velocity. It seems that on average, short barrels are more accurate depending on how rigid the long barrel is.
I always like how long barrels look on paper but, I am sure glad most of my rifles have short barrels once I actually start shooting them. The older I get and the more I shoot the less I seem to care about velocity and the more I care about practicality, weight, and accuracy.
I hunted with 26" barrels for years. It wasn't till I hunted with a 22" that I knew it made a difference. In the northern MN woods in makes a huge difference. If I didn't like my current hunting rifle so much I'd build another with an even short barrel.
Even in the high desert and open mountains of Idaho........It makes a huge difference. That little bit of balance changes everything and the velocity loss is never enough to make or brake a weapons overall capabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by 03mossy
Accuracy and efficient ballistic combinations along with proper bullet selection can go a long ways out and that makes minor velocity loss an irrelevant issue.
Welp. Gonna find out how a short 308 does as soon as my new tube gets here. Decided on a 17.5" 1:9 twist, so we'll see how it goes. Hoping to push some 185s out to 1000 yards. We shall see. Lot of naysayers preaching 24" minimum on the length. I just like pissing people off and proving them wrong. lol :fencing:
^^^^^^This^^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by romad97
I agree until you start shooting beyond 600yds in the wind. Then I appreciate to extra FPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by big honkin jeep