.5" @ 100 yards- 6" @ 200?

Stevens 200 .243 with SSS trigger, Nikon 6-24 Monarch.

Not an expensive gun but this combo shoots very, very well.

At 100 yards 3 touching is common and it will shoot .5 all day long with 100grn Sierra Game Kings .002 off the lands with 35grns of IMR 4064 in Win brass with CCI 200s.

Have used this load a number of times with very consistant results at 100 yards. Going to hunt with it so wanted a 200 yard zero. Moved the target out to 200 yards. Same gun, same bench, same rest, same load. Was very particular while prepping brass, loading and while at the range.

Very erratic 4-6" groups at 200. All over the place with no common denominator.

Moved back to 100 put three touching, then a .3ish, another and a .5.

What gives?

Bullet is not stabil at that range. Or the shooter?

Bullet is leaving clean holes. doesn't look like it is wobbling or keyholing.

Could be the shooter but I can group 1.5 @ 350 with a cheap Mossberg and group amost as well at 500 as this is at 200.

parallax. Turn the power on your scope down to 10 or 12x. Use a black and white target. Adjust scope so you can clearly see blades of grass.....and fire for effect.

Wait until you discover 1 to 1.5" groups at 100 yards....and under 10" at 1000.

Probably the shooter , much difference at 200 . Gotta have a good scope to see , at any yardage past 100 the trigger control is a major factor . Breathing , follow up .

i have the exact gun, it will only shoot 95gr. smk 44.2 gr. rl22 or h4831. wont shoot 100gr. also shoots 87gr. hornady v-max 46.7 h4831. 2 inch at 300 yards fun gun. MARK25-06

Scope is a Nikon Monarch 6-24 adjusted properly. If the shooter can do well at 350 and 500 200 shouldn't be too big of an issue.

Ammo concentricity.....if the bullets are not seated straight, they won't shoot straight. It will show up much worse at longer ranges, especially with the longer bullets.

How do I fix that?

You can buy a gauge that measures the run out of seated bullets or another way is to seat the bullets against the lands.

little trick I was taught was to rotate the case when seating. I usually run the shell through the seating die, then rotate the case 90 degrees and run it a second time. It's been working for me on my 260 until I can get a set of redding comp dies for it. Something to think about.

HcP

Could be a couple different reasons or maybe just one. You left some info out but it could be important to ask. Could be a waste of time too but here goes: Any change of wind at 200 vs. 100? Enough time between shots/barrel cooling? Exact body position and shooting mechanics for every shot? Brass lot# all the same? You're particular with your loads, to the point of measuring weight and length of brass and bullets and matching them in a group together? Use a concentricity gauge? Use a comp seating die, atleast a seater like the one Hornady is making with the retractable sleeve? Could be as already said above that your gun doesn't like that bullet at any distance beyond 100. Your twist rate might be a factor for that particular bullet. I have found that my Model12 .223 loves factory 55gr fmjs at 200 but can't stand 60gr Partitions at 200. At the very least, you've got some excuses to get out and shoot some more. Good shooting.

Thanks to all who replied. hntntiguy, yes to all of your questions. Case prep was very thorough, all loads were meassured carefully, then re-weighed, COL was precise, some rounds had a .001 varience and were marked as such to use as foulers. Conditions were perfect, no wind. Same shot timing and body placement, even used the same bench at the range. Had some of these same rounds left over and shot that them at 100 yards yesterday, same excellent accuracy as before.

I'll try rotating the cases as I seat. Going to load up some more rounds and try to get to the range soon, see if the problem persists or if I see anything new/different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattri

Bullet is leaving clean holes. doesn't look like it is wobbling or keyholing.

Could be the shooter but I can group 1.5 @ 350 with a cheap Mossberg and group amost as well at 500 as this is at 200.

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Mossberg what and what caliber? Hate to change the thread, but I need a gun that will hit a groundhog in the head at 350yds every time and costs less than $350.

Mossberg 800V-22-250, Have used this for 45 years

[img width=600 height=400]http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab333/rritchie1027/GEDC0562.jpg[/img]
100 yards


[img width=600 height=400]http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab333/rritchie1027/GEDC0564.jpg[/img]
350 yards

Rifle is a Mossberg ATR that I picked up at the local Walmart for $240ish last year. Scope is a Nikon 4.5-14 BDC. 140grn Nosler BT over 55grns of H4831 in Win brass with CCI primers.

I'm not saying that there is no way that the problem is wholly, or in part my fault as a shooter. Did want to clear up that I shoot beyond 200 regularly.

My money is on that the load needs to be tweeked. Stiffen the load it's to lite, my reload manual shows 39.5 grains. See if someone will run it on quickload.

Up? Down? Shoots great at 100 does it need a little heavier charge to stay together at 200?

Couple of things come to mind, my $$s on #1 doing the most good.
#1 Try a different bullet...105 Amax and/or 95 grain Bergers
#2 Up the powder charge if its safe to do so.
#3 Change targets and double check paralax

Good suggestions thanks. I'll work up some new loads and see how it goes. Prob won't get to the range until Sunday at the earliest.

And to think I had some good ideas for you to check on-only to find out you already do and are as anal as I when it comes to details. :) If you had only posted those pics of the groups from the Mossberg earlier, I'd have suggested to sell your Stevens and shoot the Mossberg! Good luck shooting on Sunday.

matt, the 39.5 I believe is MAX and it came out of my IMR reloading manual. My Lee manual shows 34-38 grains, so whatever you do please double check the numbers for yourself. First hand knowledge is always best. Another powder may also be the ticket, I'm only guessing here. Varget has always worked for me with a 100 grain bullet in a Savage .243. I hope this helps.

For the original poster, have you actually checked the twist on your barrel to see if its what you think it is? Reading all the responses, it sounds like a bullet stabilization issue. Definitely try a different bullet at the same distance. Check the overall length of the bullet you're using and load another brand of the same weight range thats shorter and see if it helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hcpyro13

little trick I was taught was to rotate the case when seating. I usually run the shell through the seating die, then rotate the case 90 degrees and run it a second time. It's been working for me on my 260 until I can get a set of redding comp dies for it. Something to think about.

HcP

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+1!

I've been following this one to see what you figure out.....my thoughts (FWIW)

1. It's the load - cocentricity of loaded rounds, FPS variations (got any chrono data?)

2. Scope parallax - not sure if you have front AO or side focus but the yardages on the scope don't necessarily correspond with the point where the parallax is gone....at least that hasn't been the case for me.

Good luck!

Just got back from range. Conditions were perfrect, no wind and had the range to myself. Only thing that could have been better was the angle of the sun, it was early here and the sun was in my eyes.

Checked Parallax, it was fine. Set up the way I always do, same bench. Was very particular with mechanics. All loads were within .001 COL, rotated the case while seating to keep them straight.

Shot the same load first, 35grns of IMR 4064 for a baseline. It was all over the place again.

36grns were better, about 2".

37 was the winner. I'll have to fine tune now but its a place to start.
[img width=600 height=400]http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab333/rritchie1027/GEDC0660.jpg[/img]

Looks like your on to something. ;)

Well all be darned! A great example of "shoot it at the range ya intend to use it"!!!!

Kinda makes me curious as to why though.....bullet losing stability as the fps drops off maybe?

That's what I'm going with. The 35grn charge is great at 100 yards but terrible at 200. The 36grn charge was better but the 37 was the best. Guess the heavier bullet slows down fast enough to become erratic at longer ranges. Now that I have a 200 yard load I'll see what it does at 300.

What's interesting is that the load I use in the .270 is accurate from 100-500 yards.

I would think that means your bullet is REALLY borderline for your barrel - might want to find a shorter/lighter one to work with...

I've received a lot of replies both ways. Some say the 100s are too big, some say they shoot 105s and 107s at long ranges with the same barrel. Going to have to load some more up and see how they do at longer ranges.

My Striker, 308 Win, 10" twist, with 16/IMR4227 and a 200 grain cast bullet shoots under 2" average 100 yard sets of 5 groups. At 200 yards it shoots into 5-6 feet, last summer when I had the chance to shoot at 200 yards. With 18 or 20 grains of the same powder, the same bullet shot into ~6" for just a few groups.
I've never figured out what was happening. Will try again this summer when we go north.
joe b.

Don't let anyone fool you a 100 grain bullet will shoot in a 9.25 twist .243 barrel accurately, period.