UN-BELEIVABLE ACCURACY, 10FP .223

I just wanted to pass this info to OUR gang. I purchased a 10fp, .223 in march. I put EGW base,6-24 Shooters Edge 30 mil. scope, and adjusted the FACTORY trigger, using directions from this site. Assembled handloads, using Berger, 55, 64 and 70 match bullets. Long story short, with the 64 grain Berger match,(flat base), this rifle will any day of the week CONSISTENTLY shoot and group UNDER 1/4 inch @100 yrds. Oh, Iforgot to mention the Bell and Carlson, Duramaxx stock. (I had to rework it quite a bit, but finally got what I wanted and actually expected it to be) Load info is 25.5 gr. varget, 400 cci, rem, or lapua brass. COAL is 2.342. My trigger is very light and smooth, no creep, and safe. I could not beleive that I was able to adjust it down this far and still be safe. I beleive it is less than 2 pounds. I am absolutley amazed at the accuracy. Bottom line is that it can be done, with out spending a fortune, and listening to other people in the know, and I found that here. Thanks to all in the Head Shed, and all the Brain trust that are involved here! One very happy Savage owner! AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL, 7STW

I'm glad you're happy with it!

Just curious: Does the following

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Originally Posted by 7stw

Thanks to... all the Brain trust...

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refer to the group in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?
;D ;)

It's one of the great things about this site. If you ask a serious tech question, you'll most likely get a lot of answers. Sometimes you may have to sort out a little BS from the Gospel, but that's your job anyway no matter what your source of information.

Here, at least, you're not subjected to a barrage of pompous, arrogant, and self-rightous diatribes about your basic intelligence often found on some other gun sites.

It is a good idea, however, good to have a sense of humor.

uj

BS, on here? Why uj what a ... true thing to say! But you are right, if it's anything savage, it's here.
7stw, now that the hook is set, it's on to the other of the great shooting rifles savage makes, i love my 10 series rifles, but wait til you try the 12 series, then theres, ... . blue

7stw,
Firstly I'd like to congratulate you on the shared revelation of Savage rifles. World class accuracy on a working man's budget.

Now, a couple of questions for clarification, if you don't mind.

1. Are these five shot groups?

2. Could you please post pictures of them?

I'm not doubting your statements. On the contrary, I'd love to share your rifle's performance with others who have yet to see the light.

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Originally Posted by tucker301

7stw,
Firstly I'd like to congratulate you on the shared revelation of Savage rifles. World class accuracy on a working man's budget.

Now, a couple of questions for clarification, if you don't mind.

1. Are these five shot groups?

2. Could you please post pictures of them?

I'm not doubting your statements. On the contrary, I'd love to share your rifle's performance with others who have yet to see the light.

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Question#1, these were 3 shot groups. (But for the most part, they were shot back to back) If you were to put the targets over each other, it forms one hole. I have gotten into a habit while shooting BIGGER guns, that 3 shots are sufficient. I can probably get out of that habit with this Lil' gun. Question#2. I would be happy to share these. They are like trophys. I keep a file on EVERY rifle I own, and write down load info, conditions, and results. Shots fired and total through the bore. I am computer stupid, and don't know a megabite from a mesquito bite. My wife has a digital camera, and could take pix of groups, rifle and whatever, but I don't know how to attach them. Please beleive me, it is not a cop out. And what I stated above is true. One other note, I have been a tried and true Remmy man my whole life, and I must say that these savage rifles ARE TRULY REMARKABLE. I hope your questions were answered.I have no reason to lie.

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Originally Posted by MZ5

I'm glad you're happy with it!

Just curious: Does the following

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7stw

Thanks to... all the Brain trust...

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refer to the group in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?
;D ;)

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Yep, you got it, FLOL. Actually I was referring to some of the skilled sponsors and "senior" members. IE, Mr Furious, Blue Avenger, 82 Boy, etc. I was a remmy man before joining this site, and have hung on to every word that wasn;t considered BS. I am in the process of buying a model 10 le series in .308 with HS stock. It is a 10 fpxxxx. I can not remember all the letters, but I am sure you know the one. Can;t wait.

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Originally Posted by bluealtered

BS, on here? Why uj what a ... true thing to say! But you are right, if it's anything savage, it's here.
7stw, now that the hook is set, it's on to the other of the great shooting rifles savage makes, i love my 10 series rifles, but wait til you try the 12 series, then theres, ... . blue

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P/S I just missed out on a 12vlp, in .308. BEAutiful rifle. stainlees fluted, laminated stock and accu-trigger. Went back to put deposit on it, GONE. !@##$$%. But i get your drift. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by 7stw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MZ5

I'm glad you're happy with it!

Just curious: Does the following

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7stw

Thanks to... all the Brain trust...

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refer to the group in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?
;D ;)

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Yep, you got it, FLOL. Actually I was referring to some of the skilled sponsors and "senior" members. IE, Mr Furious, Blue Avenger, 82 Boy, etc.

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Those are the guys!! :D :P

Seriously, though, I am glad you're happy with the gun. I believe I'm about to acquire a 10FP in 223 as well. Specifically, the one with the Ultimate Varminter stock on it. I hope it will be as good a gun as my brother's FP in 308, despite having the Accu-trigger. We'll see!

I have similar results with my 12 BTVS 223 using Varget and the 64gr Berger, same with the Sierra 52gr match, one bullet I've been somewhat disappointed with is the Sierra 69gr match in my rifle, not that consistent.

...I've been known to rip a hole for 3@100 a time or two with 69's & 25grs of Varget..lol.. ;)..

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/SMK.jpg[/img]

I have shot a ton of one-holer three shot groups, but when 4-5 are sent, the problems can begin.
Good shooting guys.

...I'm going to have to chase this 1 down..I miss placed it somewhere...Have to lay some calipers on it...Pic. makes it look bigger than it is.. ;)...Here's your 5 tuck... :)...

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/nos.jpg[/img]

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jack

Here, at least, you're not subjected to a barrage of pompous, arrogant, and self-rightous diatribes about your basic intelligence often found on some other gun sites.

uj

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QFT!

7stw, my best group with my 12fvss .308 at 200yd has so far been a 6 shot 1.029x.789 group, and yes i kept the target as well. However it took me four not moa shots to settle down and do that. blue

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Originally Posted by tucker301

I have shot a ton of one-holer three shot groups, but when 4-5 are sent, the problems can begin.
Good shooting guys.

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P/S. I just decided TODAY that I am done procrastinating about it. I am going to my gunshop tomorrow and buy or put on layaway another model 10. This one is in .308. It has the HS precision stock, 24 in. barrel, and accutrigger. I have picked it up and put it down WAY too many times. I have some .308 formulas, that if they don't shoot, throw the gun away. With that, I will have 4 Savages in my cabinet. Two longs, and two short actions. That gun REALLY makes your heart pound. AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL!!!!!!!!! 7STW

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Originally Posted by 7stw

this rifle will any day of the week CONSISTENTLY shoot and group UNDER 1/4 inch @100 yrds.

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Find some club matches that have a factory class and start shooting. I have shot several such matches and I have never seen a sub-0.25 agg posted by a factory class rifle (average of 5 groups of 5 @ 100 yds). Granted I usually shoot a windy environment that tends to open up groups considerably. They will not allow you to swap the stock at my club. It must be as it came from the factory with bedding and trigger adjustments only allowed. Clubs vary on their definition of factory class.

Congratulations and have fun with that Savage. Luck, Tim

new here hello all, bought a 10fp 223 4 wks ago could not get it to sight in sent back to factory just got it back friday(bad barrel) went to the range broke it in and then .483 AT 100 YARDS 5 SHOT GROUP measured from ends of hole, then out to 200 5 shots 1.1 end to end now some measure from center to center if so then .260 at 100 yards and .877 or so , sure we can do better next time had some bag issues.

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Originally Posted by tucker301

I have shot a ton of one-holer three shot groups, but when 4-5 are sent, the problems can begin.
Good shooting guys.

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Walt Berger is ...infamous(?) for saying that 3 shots will tell you whether the load is any good, whereas 5 shots tells you whether the shooter is any good. That's probably why I try to shoot groups of 2 or fewer shots! :D

I like your reasoning ;D

Yeah I find that my best groups come from shooting "fewer than 2" shots. You'd be surprised. They're almost all one hole (I do get some keyholes once in a while but I throw those out). You can't tell if more than bullet has gone through the hole. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/gr...smiley-006.gif

/quote]

Walt Berger is ...infamous(?) for saying that 3 shots will tell you whether the load is any good, whereas 5 shots tells you whether the shooter is any good. That's probably why I try to shoot groups of 2 or fewer shots! :D
[/quote]

After 3 rounds in one hole if 4 and 5 stray is it the gun or the shooter, if one shoots 5-3 round groups in succession that all hit under .300 would this then say we have a 15 shot group under .300.

When I'm working up loads I shoot 3 round groups and then average totals for the day if the average remains under .500 I'm happy.

Just read on another site where a guy is claiming you need at least 3 10 shot groups to even consider your rifle a "sub-moa" shooter. Any thoughts on this?

BS ;D

I remember NRA using a standard of "the average of 5 consecutive 5-shot groups" for published accuracy tests.

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Originally Posted by oldguy

/quote]

Walt Berger is ...infamous(?) for saying that 3 shots will tell you whether the load is any good, whereas 5 shots tells you whether the shooter is any good. That's probably why I try to shoot groups of 2 or fewer shots! :D

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After 3 rounds in one hole if 4 and 5 stray is it the gun or the shooter, if one shoots 5-3 round groups in succession that all hit under .300 would this then say we have a 15 shot group under .300.

When I'm working up loads I shoot 3 round groups and then average totals for the day if the average remains under .500 I'm happy.


[/quote]Your theory is the one that i work with also. Now it does seem that if the weather is cooler, say 50 or 45 degrees, and NO wind, I may be able to squeeze out an 5 shoter that is tight. But we are not talking NRA match shooting class rifles here. I typically shoot 3 shot groups, cool down, re-shoot the same load. Then take a aggregate of the total . That seems to work for me. MOST of my shooting has been with larger calibers, where barrel heat is not desirable. My .300 Ultra-Mag Sendero will shoot sub .5 groups with 3 shot groups. After that, the groups open, totally due to heat. My thought is that if if can't hit a deer after 3 shots, I need to go home anyway, and the noise alone has scared the!#$$% out of him. I like the 3 shot, reshoot routine. Thanks. 7STW. AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL......

The only place I've ever seen any "records" listed were for 5 round groups. And that was for a single 5 round group. But there is no universal standard for such things. If you can put 75% of your shots in a MOA area in calm wind then you have an MOA gun IMO but who am I to say? Make up your own standards. Everyone else does.

"Call BS whenever anyone quotes a group of less than 10 shots. Refuse to assign any validity to it. Really 30 shots is what we need, and 10 is the minimum!"

"3 shots are never valid (unless you mean in the sense that a stopped close it right twice a day). 10 starts to show what 30 would show. I believe 30 is needed for a full picture but that is a lot of work. I am arguing you need *at least* ten. What I mean is, if someone posts on the internet a group and it is less than 10 shots, then just ignore it and call BS and tell them to go shoot 10 shots or more."

These are just two quotes from the site I was reading.

The argument on # of shots is about statistics.
For any given gun/load combination, the average size of the group is simply a function of the number of shots in the group.
For example:
5 shot groups will be 1.32 times as large as 3 shot groups
10 shot groups will be 1.74 times as large as 3 shot groups, and 1.31 times as large as 5 shot groups.
This is covered in an update to the book. If anyone wants a copy of the article, I'm joeb33050@yahoo.com
I'll email it.
joe b.

While I completely understand the statistical equations, all that I care about is one cold bore shot. Is it a good one. I could care less ab out groups. My first shot is the one that I always focus on, but I do understand the whole statistical aspect of group shooting too.

I don't post pictures because of this kind of stuff. I bet when it's all said and done we ALL have shot more BIG groups then small one's. We just don't tell everyone.

I love that Walt Berger quote. Saving money on load development makes that a good quote too.

That cold bore shot is a good point. You got something in your sights that you may only have one shot at and your bullet doesn't hit where you aim sure does suck.