New 12 LRPV 6 BR Accuracy issue

Well I took my Brand new 12 LRPV in 6BR to the range today and shot 6 loads to test development. only one of these had any sign of grouping, in fact two groups of 2 each. All of the rest of other five well more than 1" in a three shot group at 100 yds. I'm shooting 105 AMAX's and using both Varget and H4895 with having each powder with seatings from being jammed .01 to off the lans .01 and right at the lans. The best load was with 30.3 Varget at the lans (two groups touching of two each). 29 gr varget and 29 gr H4895 were similar in size. No signs of any pressure, primers are still nicely rounded. Any ideas as to where to try something before I call Savage. I was hoping for something quite a bit better. I haven't done anything to the rifle such as torquing the action, trigger, etc. I did my normal break-in with cleanings between each shot for the first five then after each three shots.

On the other hand my second LRPV 22-250 seems to like both the 75 and 80 Gr. AMAX's with groups in the .3's and .4's. If this new one would shoot that well I'd be satisfied.

Not to ask a foolish question, but have you checked all the fasteners for torque?

So what your saying is you shot 18 rounds through a brand new rifle....cleaned after each shot or group fired....only one bullet and two powders tested with bullets jammed...touching and .001 off the lands and think you have an accuracy issue and want to send the rifle back?

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Originally Posted by LongRange

So what your saying is you shot 18 rounds through a brand new rifle....cleaned after each shot or group fired....only one bullet and two powders tested with bullets jammed...touching and .001 off the lands and think you have an accuracy issue and want to send the rifle back?

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Every Savage 6br I have shot was .250 moa or less. Your going to have to find what bullet it wants as well as powder and primers. It should be a very easy gun to tune. Try 107smk's with Varget or RL15, CCI 450 primers. Try bullets from .010 in the lands to maybe .050 out. I say this as my 6br, 6BRX, and 6 Dasher all like 107 smk's. The 105 Hybirds should work well too.

I am confident you will find you load. I don't think Savage will even talk to you with less than 20 rounds down the tube.

JMO, Dennis

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Originally Posted by Dennis

Every Savage 6br I have shot was .250 moa or less. Your going to have to find what bullet it wants as well as powder and primers. It should be a very easy gun to tune. Try 107smk's with Varget or RL15, CCI 450 primers. Try bullets from .010 in the lands to maybe .050 out. I say this as my 6br, 6BRX, and 6 Dasher all like 107 smk's. The 105 Hybirds should work well too.

I am confident you will find you load. I don't think Savage will even talk to you with less than 20 rounds down the tube.

JMO, Dennis

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agreed...those small cartridges are simple to load for and VERY accurate....and ive seen several posts where some wouldnt shoot the 105g hornadys but shot all others great.

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Originally Posted by Dennis

Every Savage 6br I have shot was .250 moa or less. Your going to have to find what bullet it wants as well as powder and primers. It should be a very easy gun to tune. Try 107smk's with Varget or RL15, CCI 450 primers. Try bullets from .010 in the lands to maybe .050 out. I say this as my 6br, 6BRX, and 6 Dasher all like 107 smk's. The 105 Hybirds should work well too.

I am confident you will find you load. I don't think Savage will even talk to you with less than 20 rounds down the tube.

JMO, Dennis

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Agreed. Sometimes it just takes experimentation. If it was easy everybody would do it.

...and it wouldn't be any fun.

Ok, I t see where every body is coming from, These loads came from the 6br website as being very accurate. I guess it's back to the drawing board.
I'm used to my 22-250 12 LRPV. 5 LOADS and there are 2 good by any standard has been the norm. This 22-250 shoots everything from 53 VMAX , 75 HPBT, 75 AMAX, 80 AMAX ALL at .5 moa or under. Anyway, I bought some 105 hybrids to try. I planned this gun to be a long range PD gun, hence the desire for AMAX's. So if it shoots 107's or 105 hybrids, it won' t be quite what I hoped for.

Shoot one clean,, shoot one clean,, until the copper stops or is minimal. Break in is for real with button rifled barrels. Cut rifled barrels or hand lapped button barrels seem to shoot right off the bat.

I know you said you broke it in, but did you use a good copper cleaner,, and did the patch;s stop coming out blue?

I've shot a lot of long range benchrest matches, and never ran across anyone shooting Hornady A-maxes, except the Hornady Team. They got spanked pretty good at the nationals a coupla years ago. Just sayin".....

sharpshooter a friend of mine shoots 87 Grain. VMAX's in his six Dasher and out to 500 yards shoots in the threes. I know they don't all shoot that way but my 223 shoots 80 gr. AMAX'S IN the same hole at 200 yards and is very respectable even at 800 yds. I do hear what you're saying though and I will try some other bullets.

I'd start with some reading. "The Book Of Rifle Accuracy" by Tony Boyer and "The Accurate Rifle" by Warren Page along with others offer some excellent education. Start by learning about load development and, if you want target rifle accuracy, you need to pick a target quality bullet. Varmint bullets will shoot well, just not quite as well.

Let me say one thing, you haven't done a work up taking loads off accurate shooter. They were for more than likely a custom gun. I have the same barrel and at 30.2 grains of varget I blew 2 primers. So what it comes down to is you need to learn how to work up a load and documenting everything you do to reason out what you haven't done. We don't know how you prep your brass. What press you are using. what dies exactly, what are you weighing your charges on, how do you seat your bullets(what type of seater), How you determined when you are touching the lands, How much run out of the bullet after seating, how much neck tension etc. I am in no way picking on you but loading isn't just selecting someone else's load and saying the gun wont shoot. One other thing, what are you shooting off of and have you let someone that can really shoot try it to be sure.

Maybe you've already read this, but if not, it might be a good starting point for load development.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com

I couldn't find much load data for the heavier bullets for 6 br,, What would be considered a starting load for a 105 bullet and say Varget, I know up around 30 is closing in on max.

hodgdons shows 26g to 29g with a 107g bullet but i think theres a lot better choices for powders with the 6BR.

The Berger 1st Edition manual has a good selection of powders for bullets up to 115gn in the 6BR.

Excellent article on OCW load development. He has expanded on the ladder test philosophy I have used for some years, especially the concept that one shot with each charge is very unreliable. Additionally, at least in my part of the country, it's practically impossible to find a 2 hour stretch of weather conditions stable enough to make a 300 yard test valid.

The loads I used came from the 6br website. I use a RCBS competition seater die and used Lapua Brass. I did take my target in to my gunsmith today and he recommended trying a few different seating depths on the 30.3 Varget load since two different seating depths (same powder load) printed in the same spot. I would really rather use H4895 or RL15 because it's almost impossible to get Varget around here. I use a method also call OCW by printing the groups into different targets that can be overlapped. It works very well, have used it for years. I appreciate all of the concerned comments I've gotten. It's great to have a forum such as this to exchange ideas. None of these loads I shot showed signs of significant pressure, primers were still nicely rounded, although the firing pin made an impression indicating it's on the edge. I'm probably also going to load some Noslers and or Bergers. I might also load some 87 Gr. VMAX, I've had very good luck with Hornady products in all of my other rifles. I'm hoping that one of these will work.

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Originally Posted by Ranger3

The loads I used came from the 6br website. I use a RCBS competition seater die and used Lapua Brass. I did take my target in to my gunsmith today and he recommended trying a few different seating depths on the 30.3 Varget load since two different seating depths (same powder load) printed in the same spot. I would really rather use H4895 or RL15 because it's almost impossible to get Varget around here. I use a method also call OCW by printing the groups into different targets that can be overlapped. It works very well, have used it for years. I appreciate all of the concerned comments I've gotten. It's great to have a forum such as this to exchange ideas. None of these loads I shot showed signs of significant pressure, primers were still nicely rounded, although the firing pin made an impression indicating it's on the edge. I'm probably also going to load some Noslers and or Bergers. I might also load some 87 Gr. VMAX, I've had very good luck with Hornady products in all of my other rifles. I'm hoping that one of these will work.

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id switch to the RL-15 and if this is a target rifle shoot target bullets...sierras,bergers...also when sizing your brass make sure you have a little crush fit...you want to feel your bolt close on your brass...not real tight but you want to know the shoulder is touching the chamber. if your sizing your brass to small it will cause your firing pin to crater the primers.

Has anyone ever used Nosler Custom Competition 105's or 107's in their 6 BR. Just asking? I'm loading some Bergers Hybrid's 105's tonight and see how they do? Just need something explosive to work on those Prairie Dogs. :-) Thanks for the tip on sizing, I'm still using new out of the Box Lapuas'.

Just as an update, I called Savage this a.m. and started explaining some of the problems, finish work on inside of receiver and inside chamber and mentioned my accuracy issues, didn't get to finish when the Save person told me we want the gun back. So it's going back to Savage tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see what happens, our local sporting goods store says Savage is great at taking care of this sort of thing. Thanks to all of you for your input.

I had a problem with a new .260 LRPV this spring. Short version of the story - I returned it to Savage at their request. They sent me a new rifle a couple of weeks later. They seem to be improving in terms of dealing with customers.

Keep us posted, for sure.

The two Savages I bought both needed gone through after I picked them up from my FFL. One just needed the action screws re-torqued to specs, the other was a Mod 11 TH XP, and not only did the action screws need to be torqued properly, but the base and rings were both loose. Definitely do as stated above, get load data and work up to find a load for YOUR rifle, and go ahead and eliminate other issues by making sure your base and rings are torqued correctly, the scope is leveled, and that the action screws are to the proper specs.

Just thought I'd let you know got my 12 LRPV 6 BR back from Savage yesterday, it was only gone 3 weeks. They polished out the inside of the receiver and tested it for accuracy with Lapua 105 Scenar's and got a .6" group at 100 yds. They don't say much else but have a list of things they checked. Now I'll have to get a scope back on it and go out again. Hopefully I can get it to shoot something besides Lapua. also I am hoping for something better than .6 on a 6br. My 22-250 LRPV shoots better than that with 3 different bullets.

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Originally Posted by Ranger3

................my 223 shoots 80 gr. AMAX'S IN the same hole at 200 yards and is very respectable even at 800 yds. ....................

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Wow............. that there is some danged good shootin'.

I agree, Ranger. It probably will once you find the right combination of bullets and powder, etc. And I'd be disappointed if it didn't.

Ok I finally got to shoot my 6BR LRPV after it came back from Savage, I shot several of the same loads I had shot before and a couple of new ones. I also shot some 87VMAX and 105 Berger Hybrid's. It loved the 87 VMAX's with one group in the .3's with a flyer making it .5. It actually seems to like the 105 AMAX's now which it didn't previously. Shot some 3 shot groups (105 AMAX) for testing with 2 shots in the .1's and also shot ok with the 105 Bergers. The Bergers need more work as do the 105 AMAX's. What ever all Savage did to this rifle certainly made it a much better gun. It was only gone 3 weeks. I'm very happy with Savage Service.

"That's the way, uh huh, uh huh, I like it, uh huh, uh huh..."