Good Lord, Savage Is Crap!

Hi Folks,

Around 2008-2009 I bought a MkII BTVS. I liked it well enough.

Well, the barrel was canted in the channel and I had to straighten it. Then I liked it well enough.

Until the sear started slipping. The trigger was apparently not heat treated well and the sear mating surface on the trigger was decidedly mushroomed and distorted.

I parked it for a bit. I played with the trigger on and off, but not very seriously.

A couple weeks ago a decided to resurrect it. It is a good-shooting rifle when things aren't breaking. A new, properly heat-treated trigger was a must, so I ordered a Rifle Basix.

I was aware of some bouncing going on when the bolt was closed. I figured I'd look into this when installing the trigger.

I washed grease away (I keep camming surfaces greased) and found this:

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http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/...0pixelated.jpg

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/...0pixelated.jpg

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/...0pixelated.jpg

After the extremely rude woman I got at Savage Rimfire last time I called (about the trigger) I'm not about to call them again.

I can't believe Savage (Lakefield) would make a piece like this, this soft. This is negligent. It's the thing that keeps the firing pin in check. If it were to break at the wrong time, it could cause an out-of-battery ignition.

You see, the partial failure shown above allows an override of the sear. The sear bounces the trigger away, and if it were to do this and break before the lug were locked, it would cause an out-of-battery discharge.

It'll be interesting to get this thing out and see how hard it is. I figure I'll either make a new guide pin (as Savage calls it) or have it made -- I've not decided. Looks like there's no buying a new one. Numrich is out, anyway, and I can't find any other sources.

Guys, this is ridiculous. I've never seen a rifle in such condition that it constantly needs major repairs. I love the way this thing shoots, but dang, it's just a piece of junk.

All the cutting oil and metal shavings it had in it when I took possession (purchased new, special order!) should have been my first clue.

Never have I seen a rifle made this cheaply. Ever.

Just something else to watch, for those of you who have Savage MkII or Model 93 rifles.

Regards,

Josh

If I got a new rifle with metal shavings yes I would have had a very close look & as for as Savagen goes you yourself said it's 7 years old. They have provided me with great customer service the few times needed.

Yes, it's 7 years old. I have a rifle that's 120+ years old that has only needed springs... once.

Granted, the Savage should have gone back for warranty service. There are parts, though, that should never wear out, and this is one of those parts.

Josh

Holy Moly! I went and looked at mine and it's barely scratched. Obviously something wrong there. The factory may want that one back.

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Originally Posted by Boudin

Holy Moly! I went and looked at mine and it's barely scratched. Obviously something wrong there. The factory may want that one back.

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Sir, they had a chance when I called them about a similar issue under warranty. The sear engagement surface of the trigger was soft, too.

They wanted me to ship it on my dime for warranty repair. No.

Josh

I think shipping on your dime keeps them from receiving items for warranty work that was no fault of Savage. What lubricant do you use on your bolt? How often do you clean your bolt? Rimfire rifles need a good scrubbing and lubricating every so often. If I had an opportunity to have the manufacture look over and repair my rifle for the cost of shipping, I would jump on it. The only time I would baulk would be if I was responsible for the damage.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

I think shipping on your dime keeps them from receiving items for warranty work that was no fault of Savage. What lubricant do you use on your bolt? How often do you clean your bolt? Rimfire rifles need a good scrubbing and lubricating every so often. If I had an opportunity to have the manufacture look over and repair my rifle for the cost of shipping, I would jump on it. The only time I would baulk would be if I was responsible for the damage.

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Are you serious?

Light oil on the firing pin and grease on the cam surfaces usually does it -- or should.

Edit: Let me clarify. That part is one that should not wear out. Even unlubed, it should wear the bolt body (stainless steel) before wearing appreciably itself.

Josh

I would have noticed wear and metal powder all over the bolt a lot sooner than you. Seriously. How did it get that far without you noticing? That's wear I'm at. At some point most people would have noticed it

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

I would have noticed wear and metal powder all over the bolt a lot sooner than you. Seriously. How did it get that far without you noticing? That's wear I'm at. At some point most people would have noticed it

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It's fine powder and mixed with grease. I wipe down the bolt, which takes grease with it, and apply new grease. The little bit at a time apparently went unnoticed by me.

I wasn't looking hard. That should never be a high-wear area. It's sort of like not really looking at 1911 lugs often until the pistol starts malfunctioning. 1911 lugs shouldn't wear quickly, either.

I've never even heard of this in a bolt action rifle. The only rifles I own are bolt action, and for the most part, always have been. It just doesn't happen.

Josh

So Savage asked you to send it in so they could look at it and you refused because you didn't want to have to pay the shipping. That pretty much makes it your problem now, not theirs.

As for the problem, my only guess would be that the cocking pin somehow didn't get heat treated as it should have. Both my Mark II and 93R17 are over 10 years old and don't show even the faintest sign of wear on the cocking pins.

Solution: Order a new cocking pin and be done with it. Don't want to keep the rifle because it's "junk", fine - sell it.

Nice website BTW. What if after 7 years a customer called with a problem. Would you send a pickup or ask them to send it in & if warranted fix it, replace it, ship it back & refund their initial shipping cost. I'd do the latter after that time had passed & think you would too.

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Originally Posted by Josh Smith

Are you serious?

Light oil on the firing pin and grease on the cam surfaces usually does it -- or should.

Edit: Let me clarify. That part is one that should not wear out. Even unlubed, it should wear the bolt body (stainless steel) before wearing appreciably itself.

Josh

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All I've used is light oil myself on my 2 Mark2 LH and 93 17HMR LH..those parts shouldn't wear that quick...I've had the same problem with the sear being to soft on my mark 2s...those are early mark 2s....circa 1996 or so...both 22s are 2 inch shooters at 50 yds ..This winter I've worked at trying to improve these rifles regarding accuracy...mainly working on the trigger pulls...and free floating the barrels.When spring arrives I'll start group testing these 2 rifles...I can say all my center fire Savage rifles are great shooters..I have over 15 in various calibers...I don't get upset over these 22s with their poor accuracy..I only paid 110.00 dollars out the door for each rifle back in the mid 90s...So I see them for what they are..an entry level rifle so I wouldn't expect Savage to spend much time in the " build " of these el cheapo rifles..My 452 CZ 22 will shoot circles around these two 22s.. That being said..my 17HMR 93 Savage is an even match in accuracy against my other CZ rifle a17HMR CZ 452...both 17HMRs are tops in accuracy..

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Originally Posted by Eric A

All I've used is light oil myself on my 2 Mark2 LH and 93 17HMR LH..those parts shouldn't wear that quick...I've had the same problem with the sear being to soft on my mark 2s...those are early mark 2s....circa 1996 or so...both 22s are 2 inch shooters at 50 yds ..This winter I've worked at trying to improve these rifles regarding accuracy...mainly working on the trigger pulls...and free floating the barrels.When spring arrives I'll start group testing these 2 rifles...I can say all my center fire Savage rifles are great shooters..I have over 15 in various calibers...I don't get upset over these 22s with their poor accuracy..I only paid 110.00 dollars out the door for each rifle back in the mid 90s...So I see them for what they are..an entry level rifle so I wouldn't expect Savage to spend much time in the " build " of these el cheapo rifles..My 452 CZ 22 will shoot circles around these two 22s.. That being said..my 17HMR 93 Savage is an even match in accuracy against my other CZ rifle a17HMR CZ 452...both 17HMRs are tops in accuracy..

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Oh, man, yes, this thing is scarey accurate. It's why I'm bothering to fix it.

Regards,

Josh

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Originally Posted by flylo

What if after 7 years a customer called with a problem. Would you send a pickup or ask them to send it in & if warranted fix it, replace it, ship it back & refund their initial shipping cost. I'd do the latter after that time had passed & think you would too.

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I contacted them well within the warranty period about other problems (bad trigger etc.) They tried to make it my problem at that time. That's my problem now. I never expected them to handle this. This is a problem that shouldn't ever exist on any gun.

As for my stuff, unlimited lifetime warranties all around.

Regards,

Josh

Just out of curiosity Josh, what is you stuff?

I think he was referring to the sights he sells.

I am here to share in the joy that is rimfire, not to advertise! :D

So, has anyone had any luck finding CCI or Remington subsonics lately? Those two are what my MkII loves, but I've not found any for sale recently. I usually have a few misfires with Remington so I prefer CCI, but either works.

Regards,

Josh

Last I saw (and bought) any Remington Subsonic's was about a month before Sandy Hook, and I doubt we'll see any of the specialty 22LR ammo until standard 22LR stops flying off the shelves faster than they can restock them.

I was at the local pro shop yesterday buying my son his first .22.

Glenn had a couple bricks of standard velocity CCI. I should have grabbed it as I have a D Rock hollowpointer tool. I hadn't budgeted for it, though.

The rifle is going to end up nice! It's a Steven's 15a. I'll need to cut the stock down to fit the 7-year-old frame my boy currently has; we have that slated for tomorrow. He also will be learning to clean it properly tomorrow, and fire off a few rounds.

Almost got him a new youth rifle, but I really wanted him to have a classic that's all wood and steel. The 15a fills all specs I want it to fill, all to a T in fact!

Josh

Josh.You really have me worried now! I bought my new MK11 BSEV two years ago and it has been a dream. I have not cleaned the barrel too much but do oil and lube the bolt and have probably shot 100 rounds per week and I'm sure it is getting better. Don't know what to expect now? Best ammo? Had been RWS R50 now I have found new Eley Force @ 1200FPS and it really performs. I think 'Force' is branded another name your side of the 'pond'

Hope you overcome your probs

Jack

Jack I wouldn't be too worried, if you haven't had any problems in two years most likely you won't. Mine is four or five years old and has never given me one problem.

Nice day in Michigan to shoot. I've shot a few days but it's been windy, today was great & the ole Savage couldn't miss. At 75 rds hitting 8 or 9 out of 10 using thunderbolts & 100% using Tac22 shooting 1" swingers. I bought 5 Bushnell AR DropZone 4.5-18x40 & want to trade out my 3-12x40. Threse are very good scopes & worth the $250 they sell for & have a longer eye relief. Sure feels good to be shooting again! Happy-Happy-Happy! :peace:

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Originally Posted by Josh Smith

I am here to share in the joy that is rimfire, not to advertise! :D

So, has anyone had any luck finding CCI or Remington subsonics lately? Those two are what my MkII loves, but I've not found any for sale recently. I usually have a few misfires with Remington so I prefer CCI, but either works.

Regards,

Josh

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I'ce bought a couple bricks of Remington subsonic but haven't tried the because I bought a case of GemTec made by CCI.

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Originally Posted by Josh Smith

So, has anyone had any luck finding CCI or Remington subsonics lately?

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Palmetto State Armory has bricks of CCI Standard Velocity (1070 f/s) for $50

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Originally Posted by 1.618

Palmetto State Armory has bricks of CCI Standard Velocity (1070 f/s) for $50

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They were on sale for $44.99 yesterday.

So, is $45 the new price for the old $15 bricks? Just wondering if I ever get the nerve up to buy more 22LR. I get sticker shock every time I shop.

Yeah, the price of 22LR ammo is scary! And hard to find. Nobody will ship it from the mainland to Hawaii either, as most won't ship by air.

Sorry the OP had problems with his Savage. I was given an old timer from my dad many years ago, and it was a hard working gun in his hands. But, it still functions fine. It's a pump action takedown model that has an octagonal barrel.

Somebody is making a kit to reload .22 long rifle. Buy, you have to cast your own bullets. I don't know much about it.

I did by a couple 100 round boxes of CCI Standard Velocity about a week ago. Anyone like that ammo?

For what its going to cost to have someone machine parts hard enough for your cocking pin its gonna be cheaper
to put your bolt in a box and send it to Savage repair center. This way you keep your accurate rifle and when your bolt returns you can
enjoy shooting it again... just a thought !!!

You guys do realize this thread had been dead for six months, right?

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

You guys do realize this thread had been dead for six months, right?

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Does that mean that Savage isn't crap anymore?
In all fairness, once I solved the weak extraction problem in my MK-II GL by doubling up the C-clamp extractor spring, I couldn't be more pleased with my rifle. I shot three squirrels yesterday and all my shots went exactly where I was aiming. As long as it keeps cycling reliably, I'll never part with this amazingly accurate rifle.

No, I just don't see the point in dredging up old threads to post a reply to a reply that had absolutely nothing to do with the original post or subject of the thread.