Mdl 10 weak ejection

Want to improve the very weak (from the start) ejection I have with my Mdl 10 in .308. I have cleaned the ejector and that helped "push" the rounds out. But, more than often, the cases fall off of the extractor "claw" before they get a chance to be tossed out. And, I have in more than one occasion, not paying much attention, loaded a spent case back into battery. So, other than a factory extractor, what is the best route to take to get this Savage to eject like a Remington or Tikka? Or, is that even possible?


Thanks,



Snipe

Try adding a oversize detent ball under the extractor to better hold the case. I think gun shack sells the oversize detent balls and if not there is a gentleman on here that seems to always have some for sale. I have added the oversize balls to all of my savages and they seem to work much better.

Clean/debur/oil the extractor as well. Had 2 10 actions that did this consistantly. That fixed both

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Originally Posted by stomp442

Try adding a oversize detent ball under the extractor to better hold the case. I think gun shack sells the oversize detent balls and if not there is a gentleman on here that seems to always have some for sale. I have added the oversize balls to all of my savages and they seem to work much better.

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Go to your local bicycle shop, most have the 9/64" balls in stock cheap.

I searched on line for a company selling the .140" balls and ordered 100 for a nice low price. I'm set for years now.

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Originally Posted by GaCop

I searched on line for a company selling the .140" balls and ordered 100 for a nice low price. I'm set for years now.

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Thank you. Now the search for a new ball. Now lets see who can leave that alone :) ;)




Snipe

I have had to clean, debur, and lengthen the ejector spring several times on various rifles. This is the one place on the Savage rifle, that I WISH would go through a design change of some sort. I understand that it would be difficult to come up with another plan of attack, but man I hate this weak link.

DK

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Originally Posted by RatMag

I have had to clean, debur, and lengthen the ejector spring several times on various rifles. This is the one place on the Savage rifle, that I WISH would go through a design change of some sort. I understand that it would be difficult to come up with another plan of attack, but man I hate this weak link.

DK

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Couldn't agree more! Only issue I'm having with my Shilen DGR is the Savage style bolt head. It's even a PTG, but I haven't found the sweet spot yet for positive consistent ejection. I've been losing point due to having to flick brass out of the action by hand and that takes up a lot of time when you're on the clock.

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Originally Posted by RatMag

I WISH would go through a design change of some sort.

DK

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The have.
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zppm40.jpg

On the left is the new style ejector, on the right the old style. The follower(tail) prevents over compressing the spring and twisting it up like the one on the right , one result of "enthusiastic" loading . Every one I've installed with a new spring and a .140 extractor ball, twelve of mine so far has solved the problem.

They're available directly from Savage Parts, the same P/Ns( ejector-spring) as before. AFAIK when you order new ejectors you get the new style, they've replaced the old.

Bill

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Originally Posted by BillPa

The have.
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zppm40.jpg

On the left is the new style ejector, on the right the old style. The follower(tail) prevents over compressing the spring and twisting it up like the one on the right , one result of "enthusiastic" loading . Every one I've installed with a new spring and a .140 extractor ball, twelve of mine so far has solved the problem.

They're available directly from Savage Parts, the same P/Ns( ejector-spring) as before. AFAIK when you order new ejectors you get the new style, they've replaced the old.

Bill

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Bill,


I have cleaned and checked the ejector, this helped throw out the spent case WHEN the case stays on the bolt head. But most of the time, the case falls off of the bolt head as the bolt is slid back. And, as LoneWolf experienced, stays in the action. And, in my case, when I didn't know it hadn't ejected, I chamber it again. Still looking for a .140 bearing to give that a try. But it is looking like the extractor "claw" that is supposed to hold onto the case doesn't have much bite.
Thank you everyone for your help with this "weak link" of Savages.




Snipe

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Originally Posted by pitsnipe

Bill,


as LoneWolf experienced, stays in the action. And, in my case, when I didn't know it hadn't ejected, I chamber it again. Still looking for a .140 bearing to give that a try. But it is looking like the extractor "claw" that is supposed to hold onto the case doesn't have much bite.
Thank you everyone for your help with this "weak link" of Savages.


Snipe

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Update, I switched the PTG extractor with the Savage extractor. Savage appears be a hair shorter in how it grabs the case (I have not Mic'd it though). I'm thinking the PTG extractor was holding on to the case for to long causing it to come off into the action after striking the rear of the ejection port. I will further update after the match this Sunday on performance increase!

Bill,

Mine has the new ejector design. During some load testing, I got a little too "enthusiastic" with my charge, and I still encountered the same problem. However, after creating a dead blow type hammer setup, I was able to get the ejector out with a lot of inertia. Then drilling, de-burring, oiling, and begging it to work again... I am back at it. Hopefully, I won't be losing anymore primers, and won't have to worry about it.

Wolf,

After my load recipe workups, I went out to try a few rounds prior to my match on Saturday. I am really glad that I did. I found out my chrono was telling me what it wanted to tell me, and NOT what I needed to know. It is reading an inconsistent 180-200fps off. Luckily, the 600 yard plate was used to work up to the bottom, and I was able to input my corrections to my Streylok program. That is how I found out for sure what my "TRUE" velocity was...

Anyways, getting back to what I was starting to say, my ejector corrections worked like a charm with the new load. When the ejector works, it definitely helps out with the timed events. I ended up taking 1st Place in my Division, and ended up 4th Place Overall. Pretty happy with the results, especially from where I started out that morning!! LOL

DK

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Originally Posted by RatMag

Bill,

Mine has the new ejector design. During some load testing, I got a little too "enthusiastic" with my charge, and I still encountered the same problem.
DK

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As my father used to say, "Some can wreak a crowbar in a sandbox"! :p I'm an "unenthusiastic" restuffer so all mine have held up so far but I keep a few springs and ejectors handy .... just in case!

I'm curious, what portion gave up the ghost? The reason for the follower, per Joe Degrande, was to bottom out in the ejector bore and limit it's travel to prevent trashing the spring. Got any pics of it?

Bill

Spring was caught in a bind, and the ejector rod was bent in a couple of places. It just took a bit to straighten it out, and get it all back together to work smooth. No pics, and will hopefully not have another chance to take some.

DK

The tail on the new ejectors does nothing for improving ejection. Limiting the travel to prevent spring crush is a novel idea, but what I found is that if you have shot a load hot enough to flow brass into the hole, that little tail does nothing to limit it's travel. In fact it makes things worse because the tail kinks inside the spring making a solid mass that is almost impossible to remove. I say "almost" because I did drill one out last week. Luckily I had a carbide drill, I don't think a standard HS would have done the job.
When the average guy jams one up, it will be a one shot deal.....you'll have to replace the bolthead.

Wish someone made an upgraded bolt head!

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Originally Posted by pitsnipe

But, more than often, the cases fall off of the extractor "claw" before they get a chance to be tossed out


Snipe

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Hint hit. Not ejection problem. Stomp442 is right try a new oversize détente ball under your extractor.

pitsnip pm inbound

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Originally Posted by BillPa

They're available directly from Savage Parts, the same P/Ns( ejector-spring) as before. AFAIK when you order new ejectors you get the new style, they've replaced the old.
Bill

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This is correct. So if you have the old style ejector, and need to replace either the ejector or the spring, both parts need to be replaced. One won't work without the other due to the revision changes.

My ejector corrective measures seem to be doing the job... at least for now. I think I will also be giving the oversized ball thingy a try as well. Can't hurt, and just might help out.

DK

My corrective actions helped, but still had consistency issues. Going to try to open up the face of the ejector slightly next.

Something else you have to watch for, the top corner of the lug race in the ring. Sometimes its a sharp point, grabs the case near the shoulder then rips it out of the extractor. You can stick a pinky in the ring and feel it. A lot of times when a case seems to just fall off and is left laying partially on the follower its the culprit. I got into the habit knock'n it off the first time I have barrel off an action.

Bill

Ya this is a Shilen DGR action. Not a factory Savage. Just trying to get ejection tuned to be more reliable and consistent.

UPDATE:

drybean has graciously offered a .140 detent ball to see if this will cure the problem. Thank you sir.

Mach2,

Yes, you are correct, the "root" of the problem is EXTRACTION not ejection. Cant have one without the other. Hope to have both soon.

Thank you everyone for your help!


Snipe

Little things like the .140 extractor ball and the updated ejector are inexpensive updates that make your Savage run like a high class rig costing hundreds of dollars more. Down the road if you start reloading your ammo your updated bolt and receiver will better handle brass cases after being reloaded several times. Case heads fired several times start getting wear and getting rounded edges which makes them tough for the extractor to hold on to. Every little bit of quality you add will help you appreciate your Savage even more. These upgrades are quality that most people don't ever see.

So I think the issue is I can run the bolt faster than it can eject and the bolt travels further back than is required for ejection and a little further than required to pick up the next round off the mag. So in reality I'm faster at cycling the bolt than the bolt is at ejecting the brass.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

So I think the issue is I can run the bolt faster than it can eject and the bolt travels further back than is required for ejection and a little further than required to pick up the next round off the mag. So in reality I'm faster at cycling the bolt than the bolt is at ejecting the brass.

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You may like a control-feed receiver better than the Savage push-feed type.

Hopefully we can someone will make something that is more consistent for those of us who require more from these rifles.

I hated my controlled round feed FN-SPR receiver, but I did like the huge claw extractor that it had. I found myself needing to single feed several times, and the controlled round feed didn't really care for that idea too much. Yes, it worked, but it took extra time to get the bolt locked down. I think that every rifle made has some sort of flaws in the design.

DK

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

So I think the issue is I can run the bolt faster than it can eject and the bolt travels further back than is required for ejection and a little further than required to pick up the next round off the mag. So in reality I'm faster at cycling the bolt than the bolt is at ejecting the brass.

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Maybe a .223 length front baffle trimmed down could limit the rearward travel, but that wouldn't slow you down any. At least you could eliminate one more little quirk.

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Originally Posted by Hotolds442

Maybe a .223 length front baffle trimmed down could limit the rearward travel, but that wouldn't slow you down any. At least you could eliminate one more little quirk.

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Running a Shilen Action. There are no baffles! I would also need a custom length bolt head to do that. I just have to work the action the way it likes to be worked and then upgrade to a higher model better suited for my competition and shooting style. I have out grow Savage style parts in that department. They shoot and will function, but when it comes to smooth cycling and ejecting brass there is a lot to be wished for from my stand point.

That is their limitation and why you do not see many Savages in the truly competitive precision bolt rifle arena.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

Running a Shilen Action.

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DOH......I temporarily misplaced that knowledge.

UPDATE

Installed new extractor/spring and ejector/spring (figured after 4k rounds a little tune up in the bolt head couldn't hurt) along with the .140 extractor ball from drybean (thank you again sir!) last night and this Savage tosses em like a Tikka now! NEVER has been this good.



Snipe

That's good news. I'm still working on getting mine right, but it's better for right now. Did you use all OEM replacement parts?

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

That's good news. I'm still working on getting mine right, but it's better for right now. Did you use all OEM replacement parts?

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Yes I did, except for the .140 ball of course. For the $ it was worth it.



Snipe