460 S&W magnum bolt gun

I don't even know why I'm doing this other than just to do it, but here goes. For some reason I want to build a .460 S&W Magnum bolt action rifle. What got me thinking was a creation called the 45 Raptor, which is basically a .460 cartridge with a .308 case head made with intentions of using it in an AR10 platform. I bought an Axis to build on figuring I wouldn't have too much $$ in it if there was some sort of bad thing happen. I ordered a couple of cheap barrel blanks from Green Mountain and rented a .460 reamer. If it really all works out I might get a custom reamer made just for the occasion. I turned the blanks down far enough to thread for a small shank Savage and then chambered them. I got a couple of .460 cases from a friend and turned the heads down to work with a .308 bolt head. I'm debating on maybe opening up the bolt face to magnum dimensions and trying the cartridges with the rim intact. I took it out today for a smoke test and luckily nothing too exciting to report. I started toward the bottom of the book data using H110 and loaded 1 cartridge with 46 and the other with 47 grains. I'm using 240gr Hornady magnum bullets. No optic mounted yet as I just wanted to see if I had a functional gun. I'll try 48 and 49 grains next time out. Recoil was pretty stout, but kind of expected that. Decided it definitely needed a muzzle brake, so used a JP I had laying on the bench. We'll see how well it works next time out. I'm going to have to shorten the magazine follower and make some sort of a feed ramp block for the end of the magazine to get the wide mouth cartridges to feed. Now I need to get some more brass to play with.

This shows where I plan to cut the follower and add a feed ramp
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps546e91a0.jpg

the rifle so far
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps62929610.jpg

Nice! Keep us updated.

That's a real interesting project!
interested in what kind of speeds you get.

Yes, please keep us posted on your progress. I'm really interested.

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Originally Posted by Steelhead

That's a real interesting project!
interested in what kind of speeds you get.

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48 grains of H110 got me 2,534 fps today with 240 gr Hornadys and I should still be able to go up another 1.5 gr according to Hodgdon. The brake helped quite a bit with recoil, but still does kick a bit. I put a red dot on it to see if there might be any accuracy potential and both bullets fired were touching at 30 yards. I know it's a long way from claiming it's a good shooter, but gives me a little hope. I'm going to get a decent laminate stock ordered, a picatinny base, get some brass, and play with getting the magazine to be functional before going much farther with shooting it. I already have some of the 200 grain flex tips to try out.

With using the flex tips I am willing to bet that you won't need to modify your follower for an extra ramp. I have built a 450BM and a 444 Marlin on Savage actions and so far no extra mods to the mags have been needed. On the 444 I did have to open up a .473" bolt face to .520" as the factory magnum heads were measuring from .544" to .553" and were too sloppy to reliably extract the 444 brass which is .514". At .520" it works great.

I will be keeping an eye on this and see how it works out for you.

Good to hear with the flex tips. I'll hold off butchering the mag until I get a few loaded. Did you have any trouble with the rims on the 444 feeding?

No not really. I did at first, but after I modded the bolt head to a more proper size the troubles just went away, and they were very minor. the only thing is to remember not to get the rim of the upper shell behind the rim of the one below it in the magazine, other wise the rims will lock.

FWIW I was doing this in a Factory Mid Grip Striker (not to be confused with a newer rear grip type) and of course it uses the SF magazine. I played with a CF mag while waiting for a barrel just running rounds out of a CF in an empty SA and they did seem smoother. Also I am getting these rounds to feed well loaded with 300gr XTP's so the flatter front of the XTP doesn't seem to be hurting.

Also just a thought, if you are using a CF 308 sized magazine and run into issues, get a 22-250 mag body and try that. The 22-250 has a more controlling feed lip setup and may correct any issues of early jumping (if that turns out to be an issue for you).

Couldn't stand the thought of that Axis recoil lug, so I faced off the front of the receiver. I used an old factory lug and felt good about cranking the nut down against it. Got it sitting in Devcon right now.

Pretty sure there is 45Raptor brass available. I think you can get it from umlautarms.com but check out 45raptor.com for details. I may be building another one of Arne's creations, yet to be developed, sometime this spring in a Savage gun. It uses 308 mag length though so no blocks or ramps to need. Can't wait!!

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Originally Posted by curlymaple42

Pretty sure there is 45Raptor brass available. I think you can get it from umlautarms.com but check out 45raptor.com for details. I may be building another one of Arne's creations, yet to be developed, sometime this spring in a Savage gun. It uses 308 mag length though so no blocks or ramps to need. Can't wait!!

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You are correct. As mentioned in the first post, the 45 Raptor is what got me thinking. I called him and talked for a little while about the Raptor. I will likely buy an AR10 barrel, mag, and brass from him in the near future.
The problem is that here in Ohio we have to use a few specific named straight walled cartridges for deer hunting and the Raptor isn't on the list. The .460 is, so that's what I'm trying to do.

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Originally Posted by mscott71

The problem is that here in Ohio we have to use a few specific named straight walled cartridges for deer hunting and the Raptor isn't on the list. The .460 is, so that's what I'm trying to do.

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Same exact reason I went with the 444 Marlin in my Striker as it is a legal "pistol" round for using in handguns here in Iowa during the gun season.

If I can make a 444 work I have faith this 460 will work out as well.

Hey boots, did you have any issues with ejection?
I opened up the bolt face, but the case gets hung up on the receiver during ejection.

Only if I work the bolt really slowly. Cycled normally or fast I have no issues.

Flex tips do indeed feed just fine from the factory magazine. 49 grains of H110 gets me a little over 2,700 fps. I was just on the short range today, but at 60 yards the 3 shots were a big ragged hole. Going to put it into a decent stock before shooting much more.

Got back out to the range today. Tried 49, 50, 51, and 52 grains of H110 with the 200 grain FTX bullets. The targets below tell the story. They were shot top left, tr, bl, br. First group is 2 1/16", 0 and 51 grains are 1.5", and the 52 grain load is 2 1/4". After it was done I realized my scope had slid forward about 1/4", but not sure how much harm it caused. Guess I forgot to tighten the screws after leveling it. Oh well, stuff happens. The 51 gr load averaged 2,775 and the 52 grain load averaged 2,830 fps. I loaded up some more of the 51 gr load and going out Monday to see what happens at 200 and 300 yards.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps25dd2073.jpg

Took it out to Rayner's today to whack some steel. They have plates at 235, 300, 375, and 400. 235 was easy. 300 yard plate is 6"x8" and was no problem to hit either. Hit the 400 yard plate as well, but had to hold over quite a bit more than expected. I was using a Nikon with the bdc reticle and punched in the numbers to the Spot On ballistics calculator. It worked pretty well.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5e292cd8.jpg

Dang. Shoots good. Looks good. What more can a guy ask for?

That thing is wild lookin'. I've always thought that brake was crazy looking in and of itself, so it's only fitting to run one on a project like this. Congrats on the build!

Congrats! Great project!!!!

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/...moMagazine.jpg

Hey Boots and Mscott71,
Been following the builds for a while, and would like your feedback. I am in Ohio and have been considering another Savage build, but for a Pistol Cartridge in a Rifle. That said, I have been pondering the whole Rim-Lock issue with the pistol cartridges. Ruger avoids this with the rotary magazine (in the 22lr and 44mag), the AK has an Arc in the magazine, and 22's and pistols use a fully tapered magazine. This idea came to me this morning (and I hope it is original, but it may not be [I am no rocket scientist]). This drawing is NOT to scale. Can one not just modify a magazine with a hard plastic to "force" a taper in a straight -walled magazine. The follower would be to be modified with each end angled as well. The taper in this drawing is exaggerated to convey my idea.
By the way, I was intrigued by turning down the rim on the parent case by Mscott71...great idea!

Your comments would be most welcome....if I am being an idiot, for the love of God--Tell me!
Thanks

Handloader, Thanks for your compliments.

The only issue that pops up in my mind about your drawing, is whether or not asking the magazine to follow the two tapers at each end would make it prone to binding a bit. The coil type spring on some Savage followers might allow it, but I would be willing to bet that the leaf type springs Savage also uses would bind up pretty quick. FWIW all that is just speculation on my part. The only way to know for sure is to try one, but the rim locking is really a minor issue, and is prevented by loading the magazine properly. As long as you have the rim 1/8" to 3/8" in front of the rim of the previous cartridge and then slide it back after it is under the magazine's feed lips you will be fine.

Just be sure to pick a "pistol" caliber that is long enough to work with Savage magazines and the extraction systems. The 460 S&W in mscott's build and my 444 Marlin both work due to them being long cases. The 44 Magnum is short enough it would be a real pain to get it to feed or eject I would speculate. I want to try doing a 357 Maximum in the near future and possibly a 327 Federal Magnum (just because I have a blank that needs using and to see if it can be done), but I am betting the 327 is going to be a single shot due to the case length.

A buddy of mine literally texted me tonight and told me to google the 45 Raptor. Looks like a 308 designed to mimick the 460 S&W. I haven't read all about it yet.
http://www.45raptor.com/45RAPTOR/

Funny, I was looking at that yesterday myself. The .45 Raptor does look like a good candidate for a project like this, but right now the stuff to make it happen seems as rare as raptor's teeth. I haven't found anyone who chambers Savage barrels yet and headspace gauges are just as hard to find. Heck, even .450 Bushmaster can be difficult to find hardware for, and it's been on the market for five years.

I forgot to ask: how is the brake attached? If it's threaded, I have to say it's blended perfectly!

Would a reamer for something like a .45 acp, or modifiy a Colt 45 or 454 Casul by grinding the rim cutting portion of the reamer off. I'm thinking that some ctg. has the dimensions you need even if you mave to do some mods. and watch how deep you cut the chamber. Paul

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Originally Posted by DrThunder88

I forgot to ask: how is the brake attached? If it's threaded, I have to say it's blended perfectly!

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Yes, it's threaded

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Originally Posted by scpaul

Would a reamer for something like a .45 acp, or modifiy a Colt 45 or 454 Casul by grinding the rim cutting portion of the reamer off. I'm thinking that some ctg. has the dimensions you need even if you mave to do some mods. and watch how deep you cut the chamber. Paul

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Not that I've seen. A lot of them are similar, but with the pressure this thing generates I would rather not try to 'billy it up too much.

Do you have access to a caniluring tool? I ask because before Hornady marketed the flex tip bullets I wanted to try handloading them and some heavier ones that they weren't selling. I bought some blackpowder bullet/.50 cal. sabots, took the .45 cal. bullet out, cannilured them, and was shooting 250 and 300 gr. bullets in my 460 pistol before they even marketed the 200 gr. flex tip bullets. If you don't have access to a caniluring tool let me know at my e-mail (I check it regularly) neese.paul@yahoo.com (watch out for the dot in my name) and we'll work out you sending me some and I'll put the canilure anywhere you want it. I don't know about your rifle project but I definately needed it for the pistol. I loaded some 395(?)gr. hard cast lead flat nose for a guy that has a S&W Custom Shop 460 with a long barrel (10" - 12"?). He told me that once he got it zeroed that he was killing deer DRT at 200+ yards. I bet that it did hit like a hammer. Anyway get in touch if I can help. Later Ya'll, Paul