1000 yard gun

Hello, first post here. Looking to build a 1000 yard bolt gun on a savage action. I've decided on a Criterion Barrel but am having some trouble deciding on an action. I am having a hard time knowing the difference between the Savage actions. Can anyone give me a quick run down? I'd like to by a "donor" rifle at a pawn shop but need to know what I'm looking for. I'm a left handed shooter so would prefer a lefty action but would also not be concerned with buying a right handed one since they are more readily available. Is a detachable box magazine vs single shot vs internal box better for accuracy? Are the differing magazine systems caliber specific?

Welcome. You're asking good and appropriate questions, but it's a bit more involved than maybe you think. There are a number of differences, but not in quality or anything you might recognize right away. All the same basic function as far as everything but the magazines go. They all work well. Depending upon the year the short actions can be different lengths. Untill you go to buy a stock, it's not all that important which action you get, performance or accuracy-wise. The key is to know there are differences, and therefore you need to know what you have before you order a stock. Honestly, my best first advice is to get a paid membership here. It's only $15 per year and allows you access to great technical articles that answer most of your questions and gets you access to member classifieds where you may find exactly what you are looking for cheap.

Also, I think you're going about it right. If you have any mechanical ability at all and/or experience with guns, get a used action for around $250 or a used donor rifle for around $300 and have at it. But DO get a membership here so you can read the articles and ask for help. Lotta good guys here with a ton of knowledge who are eager to share and encourage ya.

foxx - thanks for the input. I'll check out the paid membership on here.

Follow up question - can a short action round be used in a long action? Found a left handed gun chambered in 7mm, which I believe in long action but I want to build a 6.5CM, .260 or .308....

Sure you can. The internals of the magazine will need to be changed though, as well as the bolt head and obviously the barrel. Not quite as many options for stocks either, I think. Still a good choice though, because if you're a handloader you can seat the longest heaviest bullets out as long as needed and still have plenty of room to magazine feed.
ETA: the 7mm Mag is a good 1000 yd round, BTW. More horsepower for longer range hunting than the short action rounds. I'm not a fan of extreme long range hunting, but that's another thread. You never did state your intended purpose? Punching paper or hunting? Steel?

barrel-nut - thanks for your response. The purpose for the gun will be ringing steel out to 1000 yds and maybe a little beyond. I am a hand loader as well. I would rather not have to change bolt-head or the mag internals but would be curious to know what all is entailed in changing these parts? Price for doing so, availability of parts?

There are articles posted here on how to change the bolt head and other things, but you need to be a paid member to access them. Well worth the small fee.

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Originally Posted by michaelnel

There are articles posted here on how to change the bolt head and other things, but you need to be a paid member to access them. Well worth the small fee.

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^this. It's really not hard or terribly expensive. But different models require different parts. Become a member and read up. Lots of good useful info, plus access to the classifieds, well worth the money.
I'd also say that if you're set on building a rifle chambered for a short action round, with a .473 bolt head as you listed, why not start out with a short action, .473 bolt and not have to replace magazine parts or bolt heads? You'd also have a few more options for the inevitable stock swaps. Although I will say that the options for aftermarket lefty sticks are slim, short or long action. Something to consider. You might want to find a factory offering with a quality stock, like the HS. Not sure if they still or have ever offered it as a lefty though.
I only own short actions, and have never had any trouble with feeding with longer rounds, although they are close to max length for the mag.

barrel-nut - I would prefer to start with a short action but I'm finding mostly long-actions in my search. Some of my local long-range shooters have suggested to start with a long action for 2 reasons 1) loading the longer high BC bullets (but sounds like this may not be needed based on your experience 2) I can later upgrade to a more legitimate mile shooting cartridge, which is my end goal. I will more than likely buy a right handed action for the reasons you have suggested. I have become used to shooting them anyway but if I somehow com across a lefty action it would be cool.

You might want to check with Jim at Northland Shooters. He's usually got a few short actions on hand, at fair prices. Maybe even a lefty. Plus he'll spend all the time necessary to answer all your questions. Great guy to deal with.

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Originally Posted by barrel-nut

You might want to check with Jim at Northland Shooters. He's usually got a few short actions on hand, at fair prices. Maybe even a lefty. Plus he'll spend all the time necessary to answer all your questions. Great guy to deal with.

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Thanks. I've been to his website a few times. I'll give him a call. I am now a paid member. Where do I find the articles regarding differing actions etc...

Also check your local Walmart, if you have one. Mine has a top-bolt release center feed long action in .30-06, for under $400. Was on sale for $325 a while back. I shoulda bought it. Be aware, there are more aftermarket stocks for top-bolt-release models than the newer ones with the bolt release on the trigger guard.

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Originally Posted by barrel-nut

Also check your local Walmart, if you have one. Mine has a top-bolt release center feed long action in .30-06, for under $400. Was on sale for $325 a while back. I shoulda bought it. Be aware, there are more aftermarket stocks for top-bolt-release models than the newer ones with the bolt release on the trigger guard.

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Thanks! This is exactly the type of advice I'm looking for. I really do appreciate it. I would have never known. This will also help when I am looking at used, donor guns.

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Originally Posted by dpollard

Thanks. I've been to his website a few times. I'll give him a call. I am now a paid member. Where do I find the articles regarding differing actions etc...

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I have only accessed the site through the Tapatalk app on my phone for the past few years, and it doesn't include all the available information for some weird reason. I haven't looked at the site on my computer in so long that I can't remember exactly where to tell you to look (embarrassing!). But I know it's there cause I've researched things on it several times. I'm sure one of the other members can steer you in the right direction. I want to say that you have to back out of the "forums" section and go to the home site?

Did you find it yet? Go to Savageshooters.com home page. Click on "Savage FAQ's" and also "Articles-Gunsmithing".

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Originally Posted by barrel-nut

Did you find it yet? Go to Savageshooters.com home page. Click on "Savage FAQ's" and also "Articles-Gunsmithing".

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I found the articles section.

I was at a local gun shop last Thursday and he had a used 110 30-06 for $195.00 . It was a little rough if I wasn't looking for a short action I would have offered him $100.00 for it.

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Originally Posted by bythebook

I was at a local gun shop last Thursday and he had a used 110 30-06 for $195.00 . It was a little rough if I wasn't looking for a short action I would have offered him $100.00 for it.

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Your timing on this post is impeccable, I was going to start a new post about values. I ran around all over town today to pawn shops, guns shops and the like looking for used Savages. They all want so much money for old beat up rifles, I'm talking $400+. Was the action itself beat up or just the gun overall? I'd love to find a deal like that in a short action. I have a guy willing to sell me a used model 12 ACTION (not rifle), short action, pre-acutrigger for $400 shipped + FFL transfer fee. This seems high to me. Would you agree?

Yes, that's high. You could buy new for that price. Did you check with Jim?

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Originally Posted by barrel-nut

Yes, that's high. You could buy new for that price. Did you check with Jim?

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Talked to Jim this afternoon. Great guy! Looking at the varmint action w/criterion 28" bull barrel. For what ppl want for used actions I can buy a brand new one from him for slightly more. 2014 production, top bolt release. Only thing I need to settle on is a stock now.

I agree with barrel-nut it is too high. I have bought several used guns for the actions the lowest I have ever paid for one was $75.00 and it looked like it had been setting behind the barn door for years. When I cleaned the 1/4 of dirt off of it it looked like new. I was at another local gun store about 2months ago and they had a lightly used 243 that I could have bought for $249.00 out the door, so they are out there but it takes time to find them.

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Originally Posted by dpollard

Talked to Jim this afternoon. Great guy! Looking at the varmint action w/criterion 28" bull barrel. For what ppl want for used actions I can buy a brand new one from him for slightly more. 2014 production, top bolt release. Only thing I need to settle on is a stock now.

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He is a great guy indeed. Sounds like you're on the right track.
Check out Stocky's for a good selection of stocks.

Stopped by local pawn shop last week and the used savages there are around 300 (tagged) but theyll come off so....I agree 400 was too high. Jims really good to deal with, my criterion barrel from him shoots lights out for me. Keep us posted.
Scooter

Hold On!
Let's go back a bit. You say you want a 1000 yd gun. That is really a loaded question. What will you do with it? I hope you aren't looking for a hunting rifle that is within killing zone on most North American game. To hold 5-6" at 1000 yd will take a VERY carefully assembled rifle with a quality stock pillar bedded and glass bedded. It will also take a custom barrel as well as at least a Savage Precision Target Action (single shot only) with a carefully adjusted trigger. Also, a quality scope. Then, you will have to re-load your ammunition to long range bench rest tolerances, no off the shelf $20 per box ammo! Did I mention that this gun will set you back $3000 in parts not to mention the gunsmith assembling it!
I shoot 600-1000 yd practice every Monday and, yes, once in a while a hunting rifle will come on the line just to see what it will do and the shooter will get on paper and even sometimes do a 10" or so group, but this gun is usually a high end custom built rifle. Most often, these curious hunters will not even get on paper at 1000 yd!

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Originally Posted by normmatzen

Hold On!
Let's go back a bit. You say you want a 1000 yd gun. That is really a loaded question. What will you do with it? I hope you aren't looking for a hunting rifle that is within killing zone on most North American game. To hold 5-6" at 1000 yd will take a VERY carefully assembled rifle with a quality stock pillar bedded and glass bedded. It will also take a custom barrel as well as at least a Savage Precision Target Action (single shot only) with a carefully adjusted trigger. Also, a quality scope. Then, you will have to re-load your ammunition to long range bench rest tolerances, no off the shelf $20 per box ammo! Did I mention that this gun will set you back $3000 in parts not to mention the gunsmith assembling it!
I shoot 600-1000 yd practice every Monday and, yes, once in a while a hunting rifle will come on the line just to see what it will do and the shooter will get on paper and even sometimes do a 10" or so group, but this gun is usually a high end custom built rifle. Most often, these curious hunters will not even get on paper at 1000 yd!

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Go back and look at the 6th post on this thread where I clearly stated the gun will be used for ringing steel. No mention was made of hunting. I know MANY shooters shooting well over 1000 yds that aren't using $3,000 guns. The whole point of a Savage build is you don't need a gunsmith, hence one of the BIG reasons why this forum exists.

I've used a regular staggerfeed LA for a number of short action builds, didn't change a thing and they fed fine.

Rifle started out as a Stevens 200 30-06 (IIRC) unscrewed the barrel, had the action T&T'd, installed a RB trigger and started shooting. It's been everything from a 243 to a 7mm-08 to a 338-06 and about to be a 300 win mag.

Long actions shoot just as well as the shorts, they're just more versatile.

I love when someone jumps in without reading the thread and begins to educate you.


As you have realized, you can use a long or short action, the 6.5 CM will leave you plenty of room to seat bullets long in a short action. The .308 would not be on my list for a dedicated 1000 yard gun as the others you have mentioned will offer much better ballistics.

Which model 12 action was the fellow offering you for $400? If it was a 12 LRP, LRPV, F/TR, F-Class or other form of target model from Savage then it may actually be the Precision Target Action, in which case, $400 is a pretty good deal.

"To hold 5-6" at 1000 yd will take a VERY carefully assembled rifle with a quality stock pillar bedded and glass bedded. It will also take a custom barrel as well as at least a Savage Precision Target Action (single shot only) with a carefully adjusted trigger.
Did I mention that this gun will set you back $3000 in parts not to mention the gunsmith assembling it!
I shoot 600-1000 yd practice every Monday and, yes, once in a while a hunting rifle will come on the line just to see what it will do and the shooter will get on paper and even sometimes do a 10" or so group, but this gun is usually a high end custom built rifle. Most often, these curious hunters will not even get on paper at 1000 yd![/QUOTE]

Now that is funny.
I have a pile of rifles that I assembled myself for about $1k each that are laughing there ass off at that.
With a decent scope still easily under 2K.
Not light weight hunters but hunting rifles none the less, home built, long action,factory accutrigger, "budget" custom barrels.
I am not a pro...........this is just not that hard.
A good cartridge, carefully tuned load, deliberate assembly of a basic savage with solid components and good optics.............After that, learn the wind........and then 1/2 moa at a 1k is nothing.
I'm no pro, hell I am not even particularly skilled........It just is not that hard.

D.ID
That's nice. But I, too, assemble my own guns I have so far built two Mauser actioned hunting rifles, two Savage based long range bench rest guns as well as hot rodding my late father in law's old 1958 Savage 110 30-06 with pillar and glass bedding. I do my own work but I have started farming out my competition barrels to a local expert smith for chambering and head spacing without a nut. I still stand by my $3000 dollar figure for a 1000 yd 5-6" gun! And that includes $350 for a barrel, $350 for chambering and barrel turning, $600 for a Savage Precision Target Action, a Sharp Shooters Supply do it yourself stock for $350. So far that totals $1650.Now add a "bargain" Night Force Bench Rest scope for $1300 and I believe that is bumping $3000! If you farm out all the construction and stocking you could easily add $1000 not to mention another $1000 if you want Night Forces' Competition scope. Gee! We are up to $5000!!!
Sure, I built my 7X57 Mauser for $185 for the VZ24 action, $35 for a surplus 7X57 barrel and $150 for cutting down the barrel and crowning it along with bluing the action and barrel. Then $65 for a bargain basement MicroFit stock and a Weaver scope. Hey! I'm into that gun for $560 and I'm doing all the assembling and stocking myself!

I don't care what this 1000 yd gun is going to be used for, 5-6" groups at that range will cost $3000 plus! And this doesn't include the 200 lapua cases you need and the $500 magnetic force restoration balance to weigh your powder to a kernal and the $200 dies to get your cases formed and bullets seated with the consistency you need for 1000 yd. Of course you will be buying premium bullets that cost a bit more and you still have to tune the load carefully.

Sorry, there is still no free lunch.

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Originally Posted by normmatzen

D.ID

I don't care what this 1000 yd gun is going to be used for, 5-6" groups at that range will cost $3000 plus!

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Two things here....

1) The OP did not mention a 5"-6" requirement for his 1K rifle, you did because you assumed he was trying to hunt with it.

2) The last group I shot at distance (950 yards) was 3.75" ( usually shoot steel at that distance to shut up rifle shooters) Paid less than $500 for the Target Action, $225 for the McGowen barrel (17") and $365 for the Stock.

Spending $3k on a rifle should guarantee that consistency, but spending the $1200 to build a Savage will get you there more often than custom rifle owners want to admit. Don't get me wrong, I own a $3000 HS bolt action (with out optics) and a $3200 JP that has an additional $1900 NF NXS on top of it. Each is awesome in its own way and are very refined, my $1200 Savage stills holds the smallest group and all of them shoot well below 1/2 MOA.

Brass, dies, and scales do not apply here as they are an across the board item you will need no matter how much you spend on your rifle build.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps51be24db.jpg

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Originally Posted by normmatzen

D.ID
That's nice. But I, too, assemble my own guns I have so far built two Mauser actioned hunting rifles, two Savage based long range bench rest guns as well as hot rodding my late father in law's old 1958 Savage 110 30-06 with pillar and glass bedding. I do my own work but I have started farming out my competition barrels to a local expert smith for chambering and head spacing without a nut. I still stand by my $3000 dollar figure for a 1000 yd 5-6" gun! And that includes $350 for a barrel, $350 for chambering and barrel turning, $600 for a Savage Precision Target Action, a Sharp Shooters Supply do it yourself stock for $350. So far that totals $1650.Now add a "bargain" Night Force Bench Rest scope for $1300 and I believe that is bumping $3000! If you farm out all the construction and stocking you could easily add $1000 not to mention another $1000 if you want Night Forces' Competition scope. Gee! We are up to $5000!!!
Sure, I built my 7X57 Mauser for $185 for the VZ24 action, $35 for a surplus 7X57 barrel and $150 for cutting down the barrel and crowning it along with bluing the action and barrel. Then $65 for a bargain basement MicroFit stock and a Weaver scope. Hey! I'm into that gun for $560 and I'm doing all the assembling and stocking myself!

I don't care what this 1000 yd gun is going to be used for, 5-6" groups at that range will cost $3000 plus! And this doesn't include the 200 lapua cases you need and the $500 magnetic force restoration balance to weigh your powder to a kernal and the $200 dies to get your cases formed and bullets seated with the consistency you need for 1000 yd. Of course you will be buying premium bullets that cost a bit more and you still have to tune the load carefully.

Sorry, there is still no free lunch.

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Not when you pay someone else to do it for you, IE Your Gunsmith.
Not when you start with a worn out military relic.
I can not refrain from pointing out that I have half a dozen rifles that will shoot inside 5" at 1000.
They cost around a grand to build and a little less than that to scope......simple FACT, not an opinion or theory.
Now feeding them.........ammo, loading, tuning, learning..........That is something els entirely in regards to expense.
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So, your right there is no free lunch but........if you learn to cook and put in the time you can eat a gourmet meal considerably cheaper than you can pay someone to cook it for you.

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Originally Posted by D.ID

Not when you pay someone else to do it for you, IE Your Gunsmith.
Not when you start with a worn out military relic.
I can not refrain from pointing out that I have half a dozen rifles that will shoot inside 5" at 1000.
They cost around a grand to build and a little less than that to scope......simple FACT, not an opinion or theory.
Now feeding them.........ammo, loading, tuning, learning..........That is something els entirely in regards to expense.
.
So, your right there is no free lunch but........if you learn to cook and put in the time you can eat a gourmet meal considerably cheaper than you can pay someone to cook it for you.

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+1000. I guess there are those that feel they are superior by going to a 5-star restaurant and paying for the service in an effort to make their pals jealous. For me, I'll stick to the home-cooked meal and have more $ for components to shoot with. It's not about making others think I'm cool because I can say I have a $5000 custom rifle.

Well DP, D.ID and Jamie,

Seems you really didn't read my post all that carefully either.

I have a bunch of guns. Only two will reliably shoot 5-6" at 1000 yds. Both are Savages, both have Savage PTA's and all were assembled by me including finishing the stock,
pillar bedding and glass bedding the stock, mounting the scope. I started with a pre-fit Shilen barrel and graduated to buying my own reamers and paying a gunsmith to chamber the barrels I bought. If you choose to go the pre-fit way you can save yourself $250 or so for the gunsmith.
Strange you think 5-6" isn't much. I shoot club matches often at both 600 and 1000 yd and we shoot 5 shot groups with light gun and 10 shot groups with heavy gun. I shoot the same gun for light and heavy as most folks do. 5" is a common average aggregate group for heavy gun art 600 yd! At 1000 yd, 5" will get you a single target prize!
And, yes, I do get off on beating folks that shoot the $5000 guns with my home made Savage!

And, yes, the price I quoted above is for a realistic gun capable of consistent 5-6" groups at 1000 yds. It is what I paid for all the parts I built them with with $250 extra for my gunsmith to chamber my supplied barrel. You won't find many shooters at long range matches with scopes less than $1500 or so and a lot are using the new Night Force Comp. at $2300.