first pillar bedding job need help!

I have an old savage 110 that I would like to pillar and glass bed but I've got a few questions on starting. It is a wood stocked gun, the factory walnut or birch or whatever it's actually made of. First is there any good write up or video on a step by step specifically for a savage? I've done lots of reading and have a decent idea of what I'm looking at or at least I think I do but can't find any pics of it actually being done on a savage or how specifically the pillars are installed. I am also curious as to what pillars I should buy. What would be my best bet? I see stockys sells some and I've also seen a kit on ebay but I don't know if either are the way to go. Do these pillar kits come with a escutcheon for the front screw or do you even use one? My model 12 is factory pillar bedded and doesn't have one but I've seen a lot of pictures that show them installed. I was gonna pillar bed first and then bed the action just because I think it'd be easier for me to keep straight but if I'm wrong please let me know. For bedding the action and for installing the pillars as well I'm sure I was gonna go with devcon plastic steel putty 10110. Any big negatives on using that? Any other tips would be a huge help. I'm actually pretty handy but don't wanna do something stupid. It is a rifle I picked up real cheap so thought it'd be a good one to get my feet wet on. Thanks

The last one I pillar bedded I installed the pillars and bedding at the same time. You can use tape around the barrel to center it into the channel and tape again for the tang. In both cases the tape will center the action in the stock and set the clearance need, (to float the barrel and tang). This is incomplete info but it might help clear up one question.

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Originally Posted by olddav

The last one I pillar bedded I installed the pillars and bedding at the same time. You can use tape around the barrel to center it into the channel and tape again for the tang. In both cases the tape will center the action in the stock and set the clearance need, (to float the barrel and tang). This is incomplete info but it might help clear up one question.

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Thank you I appreciate it. What pillars did you use?

They were home made from some aluminum (round bar), the store bought ones are a whole lot easier to work with and they come precut to length. As for which one is best, I can't tell you but my guess is which ever one you select will work just fine.

Thanks for the help!

SAME BOAT YOUR IN...

Just got these in...I had been searching for a quality pillar material to use on my rifle build...searched high and low...didnt want to use lamp rod as I am sending the stock out to Jeff at CDI to be inlet'd for DBM so I wanted aluminum to ease the load on his tooling, brass or bronze is lots harder than aluminum...last week I stumbled onto ERNIETHEGUNSMITH.COM I bought enough 1/2" OD x .252" ID x 4" and 3/8" OD x .252" ID x 4" rod stock to do 5-6 rifles for $19.85 shipped...pillar stock came today and it is QUALITY material...

http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/c42_p1.html

http://erniethegunsmith.com/sitebuil...tomInstall.jpg

Id use devcon 10110 not glass if I was you...much stronger and better product.


http://www.devcon.com/products/produ...m?familyid=101

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Originally Posted by CAPTBEACH

SAME BOAT YOUR IN...

Just got these in...I had been searching for a quality pillar material to use on my rifle build...searched high and low...didnt want to use lamp rod as I am sending the stock out to Jeff at CDI to be inlet'd for DBM so I wanted aluminum to ease the load on his tooling, brass or bronze is lots harder than aluminum...last week I stumbled onto ERNIETHEGUNSMITH.COM I bought enough 1/2" OD x .252" ID x 4" and 3/8" OD x .252" ID x 4" rod stock to do 5-6 rifles for $19.85 shipped...pillar stock came today and it is QUALITY material...

http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/c42_p1.html

http://erniethegunsmith.com/sitebuil...tomInstall.jpg

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that is really nice material! cheap too. thanks. im sure this is gonna look like a stupid question but what
does the head of your action screw rest on since its tubing theres no smaller diameter shoulder for the screw head to hit or is the i.d. of the tubing still small enough the bolt head rests on it? Also do you actually run this tubing down to where its flush with the outside of the stock on the front action screw or do you leave it recessed into the stock a little bit? thanks

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Originally Posted by LongRange

Id use devcon 10110 not glass if I was you...much stronger and better product.


http://www.devcon.com/products/produ...m?familyid=101

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Thats what I was looking at earlier in a bedding write up. sounds like nice stuff. you've had good luck with it? will it work well for epoxying in the pillars as well as bedding the action?

Devcon 10110 is really good stuff. Very hard. Good finish. Good peanut butter-like consistency when applying. Stays put. Look around on the net for your best price. It can be had for 1/2 what most places charge. Works well for the pillars and the action. It is not the best material for repairing stocks, but I really believe it might be the best for bedding actions.

Some tips: If you install the pillars first (I do) get some carriage bolts from the hardware store and cut the head off and use in place of the action screws. Screw them in place and then, then slip the action into the bedding with the screws acting as a guide. The idea here is to NOT use the action screws as a means to draw the action into the stock and hold it as the epoxy cures. It is better to use these "guide screws" and use tape to hold the action into the bedding so there is less stress imposed as it sets.

Also, there are many options for release agent, I like Brownells Accra Release. It sprays on, releases with no effort and is easy to apply without missing any spots.

Use plumbers putty for your dams and plugging holes etc. Doesn't dry out like play dough or other stuff. Just a good consistency.

Use WD-40 and plenty of q-tips to help clean up any seepage. don't rush it. Be sure to tape rear, sides and bottom of recoil lug.

When done, the action screws should turn freely then suddenly STOP when tight. (Should not gradually tighten). Almost as if they have bottomed out. If they gradually tighten, it is a sure sign there is some binding on the action somewhere, and that is precisely what you are trying to avoid. Don't be afraid to dremel it out a bit (maybe 1/8 of an inch off the top) and redo it. It usually takes me 2-3 tries to get it right, and I get frustrated trying, but it can be done.

ya im seeing alot of places are $60 on a 1 pound can. found a guy on ebay at $35. is that a good price?

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Originally Posted by yotehtr1

ya im seeing alot of places are $60 on a 1 pound can. found a guy on ebay at $35. is that a good price?

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Yep. There's a retail store on the internet, too. Can't remember the name. Some kind of industrial supply place. But that price seems right in line with them.

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Originally Posted by foxx

Devcon 10110 is really good stuff. Very hard. Good finish. Good peanut butter-like consistency when applying. Stays put. Look around on the net for your best price. It can be had for 1/2 what most places charge. Works well for the pillars and the action. It is not the best material for repairing stocks, but I really believe it might be the best for bedding actions.

Some tips: If you install the pillars first (I do) get some carriage bolts from the hardware store and cut the head off and use in place of the action screws. Screw them in place and then, then slip the action into the bedding with the screws acting as a guide. The idea here is to NOT use the action screws as a means to draw the action into the stock and hold it as the epoxy cures. It is better to use these "guide screws" and use tape to hold the action into the bedding so there is less stress imposed as it sets.

Also, there are many options for release agent, I like Brownells Accra Release. It sprays on, releases with no effort and is easy to apply without missing any spots.

Use plumbers putty for your dams and plugging holes etc. Doesn't dry out like play dough or other stuff. Just a good consistency.

Use WD-40 and plenty of q-tips to help clean up any seepage. don't rush it. Be sure to tape rear, sides and bottom of recoil lug.

When done, the action screws should turn freely then suddenly STOP when tight. (Should not gradually tighten). Almost as if they have bottomed out. If they gradually tighten, it is a sure sign there is some binding on the action somewhere, and that is precisely what you are trying to avoid. Don't be afraid to dremel it out a bit (maybe 1/8 of an inch off the top) and redo it. It usually takes me 2-3 tries to get it right, and I get frustrated trying, but it can be done.

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thank you very much for all the tips! very helpful.

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Originally Posted by foxx

Yep. There's a retail store on the internet, too. Can't remember the name. Some kind of industrial supply place. But that price seems right in line with them.

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$33.04 /1 lb.
http://weldwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/ein...WH:1:230=10110

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Originally Posted by yotehtr1

Thats what I was looking at earlier in a bedding write up. sounds like nice stuff. you've had good luck with it? will it work well for epoxying in the pillars as well as bedding the action?

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yes and like foxx and billpa said best bedding compound there is and I use kiwi clear shoe polish as a releasing agent..put a coat on EVERY THING then polish it like a shoe then add another coat to the bottom of the action and polish again...another tip get everything ready and fit your action to the stock and check everything then do it again. Make sure you puddy EVERY hole in your action and fit check again. And after you bed it DO NOT TOUCH it for 12 hours 24 is better and make sure to let it set up for a few days to cure good before shooting.

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Originally Posted by CAPTBEACH

SAME BOAT YOUR IN...

Just got these in...I had been searching for a quality pillar material to use on my rifle build...searched high and low...didnt want to use lamp rod as I am sending the stock out to Jeff at CDI to be inlet'd for DBM so I wanted aluminum to ease the load on his tooling, brass or bronze is lots harder than aluminum...last week I stumbled onto ERNIETHEGUNSMITH.COM I bought enough 1/2" OD x .252" ID x 4" and 3/8" OD x .252" ID x 4" rod stock to do 5-6 rifles for $19.85 shipped...pillar stock came today and it is QUALITY material...

http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/c42_p1.html

http://erniethegunsmith.com/sitebuil...tomInstall.jpg

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Is it just me or do those rods look bent? Maybe I need to go to bed, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Redandwhite_72

Is it just me or do those rods look bent? Maybe I need to go to bed, I don't know.

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I think the shadow along the right side give the illusion of them being bent.

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Originally Posted by GaCop

I think the shadow along the right side give the illusion of them being bent.

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Yeah could be.

Don't let it throw you, it's just a catalog picture. Wrong lens or something like that.
I wish I had found those before would have saved me some trouble, adding bookmark now.

What do you guys use to drill the holes in the stock to a larger diameter for the pillars? I only have a cordless drill but could maybe borrow the use of a press. Just worried about keeping the holes straight. Also do you use a special bit or just a standard wood bit? And I'm assuming you actually drill the holes slightly larger than the pillars to allow room for the epoxy. Am I correct on that? Thanks

I drill them slightly larger than OD of the pillars, with a hand drill just as you said. The hole does not have to be perfect if it is large enough to allow the pillar to have wiggle room so you can make the PILLAR perfectly aligned, with epoxy filling any gaps around it. wood bit.

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Originally Posted by foxx

I drill them slightly larger than OD of the pillars, with a hand drill just as you said. The hole does not have to be perfect if it is large enough to allow the pillar to have wiggle room so you can make the PILLAR perfectly aligned, with epoxy filling any gaps around it. wood bit.

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Great! Thank you!

I got one more question for now. What do you use to degrease the stock and the action?

[QUOTE=yotehtr1;280624]What do you guys use to drill the holes in the stock to a larger diameter for the pillars? I only have a cordless drill but could maybe borrow the use of a press. Just worried about keeping the holes straight. Also do you use a special bit or just a standard wood bit?/QUOTE]

As far as keeping it straight the bit is going to follow the existing hole either way, it will act as a pilot. Using a twist drill bit so slow, bit speed and cut. Start with a smaller size then work up and don't go all the way through, drill about half way from both sides inward.

Don't use a wood bit, there's nothing to keep it centered in the existing hole as with a regular drill bit.

Bill

I thought a wood bit was a regular bit. That should tell you something abut my advice!

I use any spray cleaner/degreaser like action cleaner or non chlorinated brake cleaner. When I use Acra Release I just rub the metal down with clean paper towel or something. That stuff doesn't need any kind of thorough cleaning before applying.

Oh sorry I think I was thinking a wood bit was a regular bit too I guess. I didnt think about the bits with the wing blade things and the centering point in the middle and I bet thats what billpa was thinking when I said "wood bit" which very well might be technically right Im not sure. Sorry for the confusion! and thanks ya I wondered if brake cleaner would work. I might look and see about action cleaner. Is there a specific brand you like? where do you get it? midway, brownells something like that?

Action cleaner: http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSe...action+cleaner

BTW, BillPA is the man on any of this stuff. :)

Ya I didn't even think of the difference in bits! And thanks for the link

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Originally Posted by foxx

I thought a wood bit was a regular bit. That should tell you something abut my advice!

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Yeah, I should has said regular "Twist" drill bit. I guess it falls under the classification "I hope you think you know what I thought I meant":p

But, I gotta an "axcuss" A guy was here pick'n up his 788 I had done some work on. He was yack'n, I was yack'n, I was type'n, he was yack'n..... And age ain't help'n any edder.

Bill

I was looking and I had to second the question on whether or not to go all the way through the stock when drilling?

you must go all the way thru. The rear pillar should sit on the top of the trigger guard and the front on top of the DBM surround. If there is no DBM surround, it should still pass thru the stock so that there is no wood between it and the screw head. The only purpose of the pillars is to prevent the action screws from compressing the stock material and therefore, over time, changing the applied screw torque.

Thanks Foxx. I'm about to do my dads wood stock on his 22-250 and skim bed my hog hunter after a really helpful talk with Billpa, who is indeed the man.

I ordered a one pound can of devcon tonight as well as pillars from stockys. I hope they work out ok. Picked up neutral kiwi shoe polish, playdo, plumbers putty, frog tape, and black tape last night from walmart. Soon as the devcon and pillars show up I'll give it a whirl! Thanks for the help and I'll try to take pics as I go.

Good! Just curious... why playdo and plumber's putty? (I prefer plumbers putty, just wondering if you have different applications in mind for each??)

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Originally Posted by foxx

Good! Just curious... why playdo and plumber's putty? (I prefer plumbers putty, just wondering if you have different applications in mind for each??)

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use the plumbers putty playdo works but dries out pretty fast...make sure you dam up every place you dont want the devcon and plug ALL the holes in you action with putty.

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Originally Posted by LongRange

use the plumbers putty playdo works but dries out pretty fast...make sure you dam up every place you dont want the devcon and plug ALL the holes in you action with putty.

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I agree, LongRange. My question was why yotehatr bought BOTH?

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Originally Posted by foxx

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I agree, LongRange. My question was why yotehatr bought BOTH?

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Gotcha...the playdo Is to keep the kids busy while he beds his riffle.

I bought the playdo just because I found it first and didn't put it away before I got to the check out lol. Thought it may come in handy anyway and was only .88 and worst come to worst the kid will play with it. It'll probably end up just goin in the kids playdo collection.

That's pretty much my standard MO as well. :)

Just checking to be sure you didn't get confused about what to do, giving all the options and various ways to do this and the fact there really isn't a comprehensive instruction / guide anywhere on the hows and why's. You kinda have to pull it together from a lot of different sources.

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Originally Posted by LongRange

use the plumbers putty playdo works but dries out pretty fast.

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Play-Doh or plumber's putty either way, mix a few drops of vegetable cooking oil in it. It will stay in place, prevent it from drying out and make it easier to remove when doing the final cleanup.

Bill

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Originally Posted by BillPa

Play-Doh or plumber's putty either way, mix a few drops of vegetable cooking oil in it. It will stay in place, prevent it from drying out and make it easier to remove when doing the final cleanup.

Bill

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Thanks I didn't know that! Good tip there

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Originally Posted by BillPa

Play-Doh or plumber's putty either way, mix a few drops of vegetable cooking oil in it. It will stay in place, prevent it from drying out and make it easier to remove when doing the final cleanup.

Bill

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good to know thanks.

I made a few pictures the other day when I was installing pillars in a customer's stock. These photos show how I make pillars from 9/16" 6061-T6 aluminum dowels. I didn't take pictures of how to enlarge holes in an existing stock using just a drill press, but you can do it, just like I drill centered holes in the aluminum dowels, just reverse the procedure to line up with a tight fitting drill bit in the existing stock bolt hole, clamp the stock upside down in your drill press with the drill bit chucked and lowered into the hole. (don't turn on the drill press yet!) After the stock is clamped in place and can't shift, raise the drill, swap the drill bit for one that fits your pillars. I use a 9/16" router bit to drill the holes. I set the drill press to the slowest speed, turn it on and drill the hole. Any blowout because the cut isn't backed by anything is fine. It's on the inside of the stock where it will be filled by Devcon 1010 when the barreled action and pillars are glued into the stock. Here's a link to my Facebook photo album where I put the photos and description in a photo album. If the link doesn't work for those not logged into Facebook, let me know and I'll make another posting to show how to do this upgrade to your rifle with only a drill press, bit to match your aluminum barrel stock and a .260" drill bit to make the stock bolt hole in the pillar. https://www.facebook.com/hal.dougher...0320399&type=3

Thought I'd add a couple of my own tips...

[1] Use Devcon 10110 in the following ratio (by weight) 9:1 (putty to hardener). I like to use the wife's scale in grams because I can get the ratios more accurate, but you could use oz if that's all you have. I find 81 grams of putty to 9 grams of hardener will be enough for most any Savage bedding job (you will waste a fair bit - but it's most important to make the mix as good as possible). Optionally, just use 3 oz and the 3/8 oz of hardener - not as accurate, but more than enough so to do the job.

[2] Be sure to do the pillars and bedding all at the same time. Keep the action bolts centered in the pillars by wrapping them with painters tape until their diameter is just less than the hole diameter of your pillars. That will not only center them properly and keep them from having a negative impact on the rifles accuracy, but it will also act to keep unwanted Devcon from making its way into the pillar bolt interface. I like to use cut-off bolts and a cut down 1/4-28 nut to just snug the pillar against the action (not tight - just so it makes firm contact - nothing more). Take off the trigger assembly so you will avoid getting Devcon in it and it will also just be easier to ensure there is no mechanical lock when you go to remove the action.