how far to seat bullets?

I had read a while back that your bullets should be seated at least as deep as your caliber. Such as if your shooting a 22-250 with a .224 bullet of course that the bullet should be seated at least .224 into the case. Is this correct? Reason I ask is because I just used a 50 grain vmax and my hornady oal guage to check using that bullet where my lands were so I could figure out where to seat that bullet. Now I did use a bullet comparator to measure to the o - give but I also measured the tip to case head length at 2.515, the case length at 1.908, and that bullets length at 0.771. So if I add the bullet length to the case length and then subtract the overall length from tip of bullet to case head I get 0.164 of that bullet would actually be seated into the case. (Please correct my math if I'm wrong) So in order to seat the bullet to the point .224 is in the case I would end up having a 0.060 jump to the lands. I've read 0.010 to 0.030 is about the ideal range for a hunting rifle if it will fit in the magazine and that is not an issue in my rifle. So should it be seated at least .224 deep and this is simply not an ideal bullet for my gun or does it matter or should it be seated even deeper than .224. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by yotehtr1

I had read a while back that your bullets should be seated at least as deep as your caliber. Such as if your shooting a 22-250 with a .224 bullet of course that the bullet should be seated at least .224 into the case. Is this correct? Reason I ask is because I just used a 50 grain vmax and my hornady oal guage to check using that bullet where my lands were so I could figure out where to seat that bullet. Now I did use a bullet comparator to measure to the o - give but I also measured the tip to case head length at 2.515, the case length at 1.908, and that bullets length at 0.771. So if I add the bullet length to the case length and then subtract the overall length from tip of bullet to case head I get 0.164 of that bullet would actually be seated into the case. (Please correct my math if I'm wrong) So in order to seat the bullet to the point .224 is in the case I would end up having a 0.060 jump to the lands. I've read 0.010 to 0.030 is about the ideal range for a hunting rifle if it will fit in the magazine and that is not an issue in my rifle. So should it be seated at least .224 deep and this is simply not an ideal bullet for my gun or does it matter or should it be seated even deeper than .224. Thank you!

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If it's accurate and your happy with it do what you want! That's just a guideline, not a hard fast rule. I load my 22-250 with vmaxs out close to lands as well overall length is fumo lad to yours. Accuracy is great and never had a bullet issue

Seat them deep enough to keep them straight and properly seated during normal usage. For a hunting ammo this may be more than what is needed for ammo that only goes to the bench. Ideal jump to the lands is whatever shoots the best.

Thanks guys! Still a rookie here and learning so thanks for the help

Another opinion. I prefer and seat my bullets to or close to the shoulder neck junction. I like as much bullet to neck contact as I can get but that is in custom chambered barrel with zero or next to nothing freebore.
All my loads are built starting with the bullets stuffed .010 into the lands. No mag issues as I single load all my rounds. Your barrel will tell you what it likes as far as OAL and that's measured at the ogive.
And every bullet brand and design is different so measure each and write down those specs to refer to when you build loads.

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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie

Another opinion. I prefer and seat my bullets to or close to the shoulder neck junction. I like as much bullet to neck contact as I can get but that is in custom chambered barrel with zero or next to nothing freebore.
All my loads are built starting with the bullets stuffed .010 into the lands. No mag issues as I single load all my rounds. Your barrel will tell you what it likes as far as OAL and that's measured at the ogive.
And every bullet brand and design is different so measure each and write down those specs to refer to when you build loads.

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I will definitely be using the case head to ogive measurement for loading. I only measured to the tip so I could tell how much bullet seated in the case. The shame is I have enough room to seat a longer bullet but with 1 in 12 rifling I'm really limited in how heavy I can go and stabilize it. I plan on using whatever oal is most accurate but just curious how far it's safe to go. Thinking when this barrel wears out I'm gonna re barrel In a faster twist

I guess actually it would depend more on the shape of the ogive as compared to how long / heavy the bullet has to be. Maybe these vmax bullet have the ogive pushed farther back than some? Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about lol

When I first took an interest in precision shooting all I had were factory hunting rifles. At that time I believed most everything I heard or read about the topic of hand-loading for accuracy. I spent a lot of time and money attempting to make my hunting rifles shoot better by applying precision loading techniques. None of it seemed to make much difference until I bought a good varmint rifle. Later on when I bought a good benchrest rifle things finally started to come together for me.
The typical factory rifle has so many factors working against it in terms of intrinsic accuracy that the most meticulously crafted hand-loads can only go so far to help it shoot better. In my experience, seating bullets out to touch the lands is one of those accuracy enhancement tricks that has provided little to no measurable improvement in my factory rifles. Most of my factory rifles have had so much freebore in them that bullets could not be seated out long enough to make contact with the lands no matter what. When my hunting ammunition is loaded to function through a magazine the bullets may be jumping a quarter inch or so before they contact the rifling. But they are meant for hunting and to me pure accuracy is a minor concern in a hunting rifle. Take a coyote hunting rifle for instance. The way I hunt coyotes, most shots will be under 200 yards and many will be under 100 yards. The rifle simply does not need to be real accurate. On the other hand, it must be 100% reliable and the ammunition must be durable. A typical day of coyote hunting involves driving from stand to stand, loading and unloading the rifle every time I get out of and back into the truck. The cartridge gets a good workout riding up the feed ramp and then yanked back out of the chamber several times a day. I want my bullets firmly held by the case neck. That means they will be seated at least one caliber into the case. I don’t care if they are jumping an inch to the rifling
I’m not attempting to discourage anyone from trying to improve the accuracy of their factory rifle. But I feel that improvements to the bedding and trigger will go a lot further than things like bullet seating depth. I have found that the biggest improvement in accuracy from a factory rifle comes after you have a competent gunsmith install a good custom barrel on it. At that point the accuracy enhancing tricks that you can do with your ammunition will start to pay off. If pure accuracy is what you are after, mastering the art of shooting off a bench rest and learning to read wind flags will take you even further.

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Originally Posted by Fenrir

When I first took an interest in precision shooting all I had were factory hunting rifles. At that time I believed most everything I heard or read about the topic of hand-loading for accuracy. I spent a lot of time and money attempting to make my hunting rifles shoot better by applying precision loading techniques. None of it seemed to make much difference until I bought a good varmint rifle. Later on when I bought a good benchrest rifle things finally started to come together for me.
The typical factory rifle has so many factors working against it in terms of intrinsic accuracy that the most meticulously crafted hand-loads can only go so far to help it shoot better. In my experience, seating bullets out to touch the lands is one of those accuracy enhancement tricks that has provided little to no measurable improvement in my factory rifles. Most of my factory rifles have had so much freebore in them that bullets could not be seated out long enough to make contact with the lands no matter what. When my hunting ammunition is loaded to function through a magazine the bullets may be jumping a quarter inch or so before they contact the rifling. But they are meant for hunting and to me pure accuracy is a minor concern in a hunting rifle. Take a coyote hunting rifle for instance. The way I hunt coyotes, most shots will be under 200 yards and many will be under 100 yards. The rifle simply does not need to be real accurate. On the other hand, it must be 100% reliable and the ammunition must be durable. A typical day of coyote hunting involves driving from stand to stand, loading and unloading the rifle every time I get out of and back into the truck. The cartridge gets a good workout riding up the feed ramp and then yanked back out of the chamber several times a day. I want my bullets firmly held by the case neck. That means they will be seated at least one caliber into the case. I don’t care if they are jumping an inch to the rifling
I’m not attempting to discourage anyone from trying to improve the accuracy of their factory rifle. But I feel that improvements to the bedding and trigger will go a lot further than things like bullet seating depth. I have found that the biggest improvement in accuracy from a factory rifle comes after you have a competent gunsmith install a good custom barrel on it. At that point the accuracy enhancing tricks that you can do with your ammunition will start to pay off. If pure accuracy is what you are after, mastering the art of shooting off a bench rest and learning to read wind flags will take you even further.

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Not to to start a **** storm but this is wrong on so many levels its not funny...first off factory barrels are very short as far as free bore goes because factory barrels are not chambered to shoot long heavy bullets...they are chambered to shoot short light bullets that move fast at short ranges so at 100 to 300yds it dont matter if its a 1" group or a 5" group its all in the vitals...now that same 3 to 5" group at 1000+yds that killed your buck turns into a 24" missed shot....and when shooting out at 800-1000-1760-2000+yds everything you do makes a HUGE difference... .2gs of powder will cause 2" of drop or raise at 1000yds and a primer will cause the same effect as well as neck tension OAL trim length brass capacity and on and on...most bench rest guy have thier barrels chamber around the bullet and powder they are shooting...the fuller the cade is and the closer the bullet is to the lands the lower the FPS spred and the better it shoots.

The rifle is a model 12bvss with the pillar bedded laminate prone style stock and 26" varmint contour barrel. I've already found a few loads that shoot sub 1/4" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. It's actually a darn good shooter. I use it for groundhog hunting which around here can be a decently long stretch. Not tons of 400 or 500 yard shots but there are some and lots of 200 to 350. I also punch paper at the local range with it just for fun. No competitions or anything although I am interested in maybe someday doing some club shoots or something. Not necessarily with this gun I don't know much about any of that so might not be a good gun at all for that sort of thing. But I like playing with my reloading and trying to make it more accurate. A groundhogs head is only somewhere between the size of a baseball and softball maybe so pretty small target a couple hundred yards out. Pretty much all for fun though just wanting to do what I can but keep safe at the same time.

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Originally Posted by LongRange

Not to to start a **** storm but this is wrong on so many levels its not funny...first off factory barrels are very short as far as free bore goes because factory barrels are not chambered to shoot long heavy bullets...they are chambered to shoot short light bullets that move fast at short ranges so at 100 to 300yds it dont matter if its a 1" group or a 5" group its all in the vitals...now that same 3 to 5" group at 1000+yds that killed your buck turns into a 24" missed shot....and when shooting out at 800-1000-1760-2000+yds everything you do makes a HUGE difference... .2gs of powder will cause 2" of drop or raise at 1000yds and a primer will cause the same effect as well as neck tension OAL trim length brass capacity and on and on...most bench rest guy have thier barrels chamber around the bullet and powder they are shooting...the fuller the cade is and the closer the bullet is to the lands the lower the FPS spred and the better it shoots.

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I know the closer I've got mine to the lands the better it has shot. I've nowhere near got it pinned down yet but an observation. When I first started loading I just went to the 2.350 that the manual said. Well as I learned a little bit and started seating farther out it went from a 1/2" gun to a 1/4" gun. Still learning and still playing with it but so far it's showing a lot of promise.

http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/...psrcysyyfo.jpg

That was one of the groups from my last trip to the range. I was shooting 53 grain vmax's in front of varget at 2.430 oal which is still about 0.100 out of the lands. I'm just kinda slowly working my way out to see where it seems to like. When I started reloading I tried some 53 grain vmax's but at the 2.350 the manual said and I hated them to be honest. They shot 5/8" at best and most groups in the 3/4 to inch range which I thought was just terrible for this rifle. Since then I've kept asking questions and trying new things and well, think the pic shows how that's working lol

Longrange,

You obviously know far more about this subject than I do. There’s no point in me trying to argue or explain anything to you so you are the clear winner in this internet pissing contest. Go ahead and pin a medal on yourself.



yotehtr1,

That’s a great shooting rifle you have there. Good luck to you in your accuracy endeavors.

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Originally Posted by Fenrir

Longrange,

You obviously know far more about this subject than I do. There’s no point in me trying to argue or explain anything to you so you are the clear winner in this internet pissing contest. Go ahead and pin a medal on yourself.



yotehtr1,

That’s a great shooting rifle you have there. Good luck to you in your accuracy endeavors.

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Thank you! And ya I don't know how far I will or won't get with accuracy but it's a lot of fun to play with anyway!

Most of the "factory" chambered Savage barrels have a long freebore and it's almost a lost cause trying to seat lighter weight bullets to the lands. That's why there's so many folks squaking about not being able to reach the lands. Heavy bullets works best in that situation. All my barrels have custon cut chambers with zero freebore just so I can jam into the lands. As the throat wears, you can go to a heavier bullet and still reach the lands.

Thst 53 gr vmax in a 22-250 is absolutely rediculus.

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Originally Posted by Fenrir

Longrange,

You obviously know far more about this subject than I do. There’s no point in me trying to argue or explain anything to you so you are the clear winner in this internet pissing contest. Go ahead and pin a medal on yourself.



yotehtr1,

That’s a great shooting rifle you have there. Good luck to you in your accuracy endeavors.

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Im sorry you took it that way it was not ment to be a pissing match so my apologies...also I am no expert just stating what I know....ive been shooting for awhile and most of it is out past 800yds so ive seen the effects that small changes have.

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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie

Most of the "factory" chambered Savage barrels have a long freebore and it's almost a lost cause trying to seat lighter weight bullets to the lands. That's why there's so many folks squaking about not being able to reach the lands. Heavy bullets works best in that situation. All my barrels have custon cut chambers with zero freebore just so I can jam into the lands. As the throat wears, you can go to a heavier bullet and still reach the lands.

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Also the factory barrels are pretty loose on head spacing so if you rehead space using good head space guages you can close up a little of the free bore.
my factory barrel on my 300 was very accurate but after 50-75 rounds it would foul so bad the accuracy would drop off.

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Originally Posted by yotehtr1

http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/...psrcysyyfo.jpg

That was one of the groups from my last trip to the range. I was shooting 53 grain vmax's in front of varget at 2.430 oal which is still about 0.100 out of the lands. I'm just kinda slowly working my way out to see where it seems to like. When I started reloading I tried some 53 grain vmax's but at the 2.350 the manual said and I hated them to be honest. They shot 5/8" at best and most groups in the 3/4 to inch range which I thought was just terrible for this rifle. Since then I've kept asking questions and trying new things and well, think the pic shows how that's working lol

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That is a fantastic shooting riffle as most savages are.

Ya it's been a really good shooter so far and playing with my loading and more time on the bench have helped a lot too! I have a couple older savage 110s too that I haven't started loading for yet. A 243 and a 270. The 270 is my deer rifle and it's been a great rifle but I've not spent much time on a bench with it. The 243 I haven't even shot yet. Just ordered a scope for it after owning it maybe 6 months. It's in really nice shape. Bought it at a local gun shop for $200. It had trouble feeding from the magazine because someone had tweaked the blind mag spring and messed it up. Thanks to guys on here I got it working as it should be. And ya those 53 grain vmax's are a nice bullet once I got them figured out. I honestly had the best luck with 64 grain Berger match varmint bullets in my 22 250 but not only are they kinda scarce right now but at 30ish bucks / 100 they also cost a lot more than the hornadys. The other day I ordered some hornady match 52 grain bthp bullets to try on the bench. I'm kinda worried now that might be a little shorter than I like but who knows maybe the rifle will just love a .060 jump or whatever they end up being. Won't know till I try. I just wish I could shoot some of the longer 68 or 69 or 75 grain bullets but they require a much faster twist so that's out for now.

Just what is the twist on your 22-250? My 1-9 in my 223 will shoot 77 grain Serria's just fine.

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Originally Posted by earl39

Just what is the twist on your 22-250? My 1-9 in my 223 will shoot 77 grain Serria's just fine.

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It's 1-12. What I was reading on different manufactures websites looked like I would need a 1-8 or 1-9 to stabilize the 69 grain and up bullets. I did read something about a 69ish grain bullet that would stabilize in a slower twist maybe on this forum but I'm not sure. My gun loves the 64 grain bergers but they are a flat base bullet with an advertised bc of .294. All of the other over 60 grain bullets I see advertised state they require a faster twist. I haven't tried any so I don't know for sure and maybe there are some that will work that I simply don't know about. If anyone does know I'm open for suggestions.

You never know until you shoot some...I've shot 240g sierras out of a 1-10 twist and they shot great I just didn't like them because they are hard on brass and was like lobbing bricks. My riffle loves the 210smks but at $250 bucks per 500 I switched to the 208g hornadys for $160 per 500. I've shot a couple hundred 210g bergers but didn't find a good load with them.

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Originally Posted by LongRange

You never know until you shoot some...I've shot 240g sierras out of a 1-10 twist and they shot great I just didn't like them because they are hard on brass and was like lobbing bricks. My riffle loves the 210smks but at $250 bucks per 500 I switched to the 208g hornadys for $160 per 500. I've shot a couple hundred 210g bergers but didn't find a good load with them.

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Oh wow makes me glad I have a 22-250. I'm complaining about $30/100! What caliber are you shooting? Those 52 grain match bthp I just ordered were $60 for 500

I shoot a 300 win mag and a Remington 260...the 260 like reloader 17 and the 139g lapua bullets...260 bullets aren't bad at $316 for a thousand...the 140g hornadys are about $20 $30 bucks cheaper per thousand and I'm going to give them a try soon.

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Originally Posted by LongRange

I shoot a 300 win mag and a Remington 260...the 260 like reloader 17 and the 139g lapua bullets...260 bullets aren't bad at $316 for a thousand...the 140g hornadys are about $20 $30 bucks cheaper per thousand and I'm going to give them a try soon.

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How do you like the 260 rem? That's a chambering I was kinda interested in. Read it's a heck of a long range shooter

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Originally Posted by yotehtr1

How do you like the 260 rem? That's a chambering I was kinda interested in. Read it's a heck of a long range shooter

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Love the 260 its a tack driver...ive only shot out 900yds with it so far but it will consistently shoot 3.5 to 4" groups at 900 if im on my game. I just put a new trigger in it and hopping that will tighten things up a little more...even with the target trigger backed all the way off it was still a little over a pound of pull.

This is the 260 at 900yds
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...s/photo1-1.jpgURL=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2-1.jpg.html]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...s/photo2-1.jpg[/URL]

this is the 260 at 650yds

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Originally Posted by LongRange

This is the 260 at 900yds
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...s/photo1-1.jpgURL=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2-1.jpg.html]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...s/photo2-1.jpg[/URL]

this is the 260 at 650yds

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That's really impressive!

3 shot groups are for little girls ;)

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Originally Posted by Luke45

3 shot groups are for little girls ;)

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3 shots is where you have to stop to retain braggin' rights....;)

Lol I say 3 shots is good but I'm cheap and that's most of the reason! There's also a slight chance my groups look better too! Haha

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Originally Posted by Luke45

3 shot groups are for little girls ;)

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

3 shots is where you have to stop to retain braggin' rights....;)

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you guys are right....but these groups were not shot back to back...i had a target at 230yds,a target at 420yds,a target at 550yds,a target at 650 and one at 900 that was supposed to be 850 just like in the long range varmint silhouette matches.so those shots were fired over 30 rounds,shot at different distances each string,not so much for groups. i will get out and shoot some groups at 1000yds with the 260 in the next few weeks and post up some pics.

I just got those 52 grain hornady bthp bullets in last night and checked them with my hornady oal tool. Almost couldn't believe it because they are the shortest bullet I have but I can easily touch the lands and still be seated well into the case mouth! I don't have the measurements on me but I could post them later if anyone really cared. Point is the only thing I can figure is these bullets have a totally different o - give shape than the 50 grain vmax. I checked them at least 10 times and all reading accurate within .001". Actually after I found the case head to o - give length I checked the case head to bullet tip length as well and they weren't really much over the saami speck listed in the book. Well a lot closer than the vmax anyway. Came out to 2.397-2.400. Saami spec is 2.350. Just thought this was really interesting. Any of you found something like this to be true?